FlaSoxxJim

"Isn't that just like a filthy wop? Brings a knife to a gunfight." Name the flick?

There was a good poster over there that also loved that sketch, and decided that we all needed to bring White Sox cowbells out to the park and that would really fire the team and fans up.

"I puton my pants one leg ata time, justlike everybody else. The difference is after I put them on I make hit records." And the cowbell thing has had me thinking... were you GregoryETC. on that other board?

Chaos' initial statement (not necessarily singling anyone out) was something along the lines of 'The gong is Japanese, Shingo is Japanese.' By way of counter argument I pointed out that the instrument in fact originated elsewhere but it's a recognizable Asian icon so we use it as an audio punchline to Asian stereotypes. That is all. And, you are presenting yet more counter argument that maybe the gong is not such a bad choice - not Japanese by design, but by societal assimilation. I concede that point, and actually enjoyed the exchange.

For the origin of the instrument, yes, BC. At least to the 5th century BC. I'm not any kind of authority on Japanese musical history by any stretch – I've done some Kabuki theater, learned a little koto and done tea ceremonies. I have read authors that dismiss the claims that gongs are native Japanese instruments and was trying to condense same here. Think of how prevalent the bouzouki is in modern Irish folk music (for anyone into Irish folk music). It's a Greek instrument, but has found a home in Irish folk groups. But for someone to jump up and use a bouzouki reference as a stereotypical jab or craicature of Irish music would be uninformed. Ullean pipes, standing harp, bourhan, all of those are of Irish origin and better examples if we cared to get it right. Even highland bagpipes so prevalant in St. Paddy parades are less than traditional Irish – but they're louder than Ullean pipes and make better parade instruments...

Again, that's the Buddhist origin. And you are correct and I said as much in the previous post. The initial blanket statement that a gong is a Japanese instrument is what was initially questioned, because it's origins are SE Asian yes, but NOT Japanese.

You're right, it can't be argued that the gong is certainly present in Japanese society. I think particularly with regard to Buddhism and Shinto, ceremonial gongs are very visible. Again though, Buddhism came to Japan by way of China, and as such so would the ceremonial instruments. Mostly my original post was to turn the tables on stereotypes... we use them to caricature a race we don't know much about, and usually the fact that we get the stereotype wrong says more about us as lazy thinkers than about the ethnic target of our jabs. I used to like it when Mike Meyers' "All things Scottish" character would go into a rage when someone incorrectly applied Irish stereotypes to the Scotts. And I'm sure Shingo and most Japanese and Japanese Americans just chuckle at us when we get it similarly wrong.

For the most part, in traditional Japanese music performance, that is correct. Biwa, shakuhachi, koto, and shamisen are the traditional instruments of Kabuki theater, and have been since the Edo period. Pre Edo musical theater - Noh, Sarugaku, etc., also did not use gongs as traditioanl instruments. In the modern world, of course, there is lots of cross-pollination. New Age "genius" Kitaro has a gong on the cover of his Silk Road album and uses it in his recordings (also uses western guitars and synthesizers, so not exactly traditional). My fave japanese girl band of all time Shonen Knife uses western instruments 0 electric guitars, trap eset drums, synths, etc., but they're hardly traditional. The gong is not a traditional Japanese instruments any more than a Fender Mustang is.

Forget being politically correct... How about just being CORRECT?! A gong is NOT Japanese. It's origins are in Bronze Age China, Indochina, and Indonesia. 2,500 year old examples have been found in nortehrn Viet Nam. The instrument has little to do with Japan. But it is an easy Asian stereotype that we can all get as Idiot Americans. Hear a gong... see a guy on the mound... 'Oh I get it, he's Asian!! far from taking offense at it, I value it as the kind of Pavlovian operant conditioning the average American needs to 'get the joke.' There are lots of great AUTHENTIC Japanese instruments that can be used if we were interested in getting it right, actually respecting a heritage rather than lumping the Asians into one cartoony, convenient pile. Taiko, odaiko (drums), koto, shamisen (zuther, lute), biwi (flute)… these are just the endemic Japanese instruments I’m familiar with, and there are lots more. None of them are as funny as the gong though, and we wouldn’t 'get the joke'… No, I’m not holding my breath for political correctness (let alone the real issue here, ethnic respect), because we as a nation are not even concerned with correctness of any kind in general. For the record, I don’t care about the Shingo gong. It’s stupid and funny, he doesn’t mind, it IS THE SAME as "Jose Jose Jose Jose…" (on multiple levels, i.e., let’s sing a Mexican song for the Puerto Rican guy – because that’s how witty we are). I’m not losing sleep over it. There are more important things to fightabout. And also for the record, If Nancy slipped in "Turning Japanese" during a Shingo inning I’d probably die laughing. That’s a great (and totally inappropriate) suggestion!

They were in the concourse shops and also in the outside vender trailers. No shgirts with that dang freckled, low-eared cartoon kid though, as far as I could see.

I got the short sleeve version of that one with blue trim around the sleeves when I was up a couple weeks ago. Cool shirt.

Happy 30th! That's the year your youthful metabolism craps out on you and you start getting fat. Welcome to the Large Mammals Herd!

Get an actuual Sox shirt instead. While on the subbject, anyone who sees a cool Sox shirt and waffles about getting it (price or whatever), get the dang thing or you'll regret it like me. I was the coolest shirt featuring the freckled, big-footed cartoon mascot kid from the 70s (the one that use dto be on the popcorn box/megaphones) at the Baseball as America travelling exhibit at the Field last year. I balked att the $25 price tag and didn't get it, and I've been kicking myself ever since. Anyone ever seen that shirt, my life (or at least my t-shirt drawer) won't be complete until I find it. [/tale of woe]

The environment (gutting) has been a high priority of the current administration. I'd bbe happy if the incoming (post November regime change) administration more or less ignores the environment again, AFTER it gets a chance to: kill "clear skies/healthy forests", close off ANWR for good, aplogize to the world for trying to kill Kyoto, refund and reprioritize the Endangered Species Act, put some teeth back into the EPA re clean air/water and Superfund, restore funding for Park Services/NOAA/USFW..., spend more than a bulls*** token amount on renewable/alernate fuel technology, sue Army Corps or Engineers for breach of contract with the American people re enabling the continued rape of the Everglades by Big Sugar, reaffirm the Clinton-era roadless rules, start prosecuting industrial polluters rather than taking a dive in court every time, enact the provisions of the Ocean Commission... OK, so they have a lot to do to fix the mess of the last 4 years...

Watch (or rewatch) the Ken Burns baseball documentary. It's 9 tapes ("innings") long, but just pick out the volumes you'll need. Great stuff in there.

H-H-Hey! You weren't supposed to let the cat out of the bag... A time and place for everything, and soon "all will be revealed." Now for the as yet unanswered question: Brando, are you Mike Pushkin, as has been suggested? I thought there were posting similarities, but the the post about BMR getting plied with alcohol and doing some manner of sideways slammin' really did sound like you? And I didn't see when thread three in the evolving saga went away over there, but I'm betting it had something to do with ROMANiac chiming in. right?

That's 'cause DA MAN'S been keeping down the Cocoans! Fight the power!

Or we could get rid of any excess posters I decide don't like. ...I could make a list...? Sorry, I'm getting caught up in the moment.

Because that's like treatimg dandruff by decapitation, i.e., overkill. A poster on a public MLB site is not the organization, and doesn't represent the organization, and whoever doesn't get that has reality issues. Statements to the effect that the White Sox front office is about to declare a national holiday because a couple of online whackos (not really labeling anyone here - we're all in that group as far as the real bricks-and-mortar organization is concerned) decided to take down the King Whacko are greatly exaggerated. The statements suggesting that one irritating, nasty poster on a message board has turned legions of people away from the White Sox is nuts. From that site maybe, but so what? leave the site, do your baseball talking somewhere else, but if a personality on an electronic message board has the ability to turn someone away from a pro sports franchise, then that "fan" wasn't going to be around for very long anyway. Honestly, tell me that season ticket holders have dropped their tickets because of a jerk on a website. Instead of, uh, not going to that website!? Honestly, tell me that a shareholder in ANY company can't simultaneously be an asshole in his personal life (whether N is or not is irrelevant in making the point).

H-H-Hey, don't give it away.

NPR did a piece on this a few months back and played some song snippets. Standaard 60s garage band fare, not the Beatles, heck, not even the Nazz. But the few surviving LPs were going for hundreds to thousands of dollars between the hardcore garage band afficianados. I may order the re-release. If I do I'll burn CD-Rs for anyone who wants a listen.

Tigers@Twins just went final, Twinks go down 4-2!!!

HOW THE HELL did we turn that DP to end Top6? I'm not complaining, but that was like slow motion.

Will I go straight to hell if I admit I laughed at that? I'm a bad, bad person.... on me.

Agreed. And it not about being for or against gay marriage like you say. It has everything to do with the ploiticizing the US Constitution in a waaay too casual manner. It would be a very scary test case to see just how much you can wipe your ass with the Constitution before the public bothers to notice.