Jack Parkman

Homer Simpson called something gay on national TV in the 2000s. That's how common and acceptable that was.

Again, I ask....what is their recourse? To go to the same people that have already decided to cover it up? To coerce a victim to go to the police and re live the trauma before he's ready? The taunting stuff is shitty, no doubt. They deserve everything they get about it. The players are not above criticism, however they are not the moral equivalent of the FO. The only thing the players had the power to stop was the harassment. Given the setup of training camp, it is unknown whether Hawks core players were around when this took place. The FO had the power to help Beach and stop Aldrich. They didn't. Not the same thing.

A sports locker room is not your normal workplace. The social environment is similar to hanging out with your buddies at a party.

When you put it that way, yeah........whoever did that was shitty. I didn't even grasp this part until just now. EDIT: wait a sec....wasn't that said to Black Ace 1 in 2014 in the AHL and not Beach himself?

It's not "like" if they knew the whole story, it's what it IS. Kyle Beach is a victim of date rape. I don't think the players knew the whole story, because I don't think a reasonable human would do something that sick. In the high testosterone, toxic masculine world of sports locker rooms, with a lot of guys in their early to mid 20s, that either a) they didn't have the whole story or b) they didn't grasp the seriousness of what occurred. There were adults in the org that did, and they did nothing.

No, it's common male behavior to bust your teammates balls in a sports locker room. I don't think that they ridiculed him for being sexually assaulted. This is part of the reason why I think the players didn't know the whole story. I don't think that any of them would have done that if they knew the seriousness of what happened. Who knew what and when. There's a difference between ball busting and kicking them when they're down. If it comes out that everyone knew the whole story, then yeah, it's super shitty. I'm looking at human psychology here and am assuming these guys aren't being shitty on purpose. At a worst case scenario, they didn't grasp the seriousness of what happened. Maybe I'm projecting a certain level of empathy on to people who don't deserve it. I look at the situation from a point of reason and ask "how does this happen?" From a reasonable person's point of view

^^^^^ This doesn't make it acceptable, but it's common male behavior. Toxic masculinity shit

It doesn't excuse him saying that. It's still abhorrent. There's no logical reason for him to defend the scumbag Bowman if he isn't in denial. It's still slimy and insensitive. I understand why he did it. It doesn't make it correct or acceptable. Toews is no angel, but he's not a villain either. To say he has done himself no favors is an understatement. I'm not willing to throw the players under the bus quite yet. We shall see how this plays out. When Boynton and Sopel, and Beach say the players knew, what did they know? Rumors and hearsay or that a sexual assault took place? I still haven't found the answer to that question The players should not have to answer for the crimes of upper management. If upper management did not abdicate their moral responsibility, this is a non-issue. It is very clear to me where the overwhelming majority of the blame lies. Anyone has the right to be angry with the players for making excuses for their buddies. I'm not telling people not to be angry with the players for making shitty comments I was as appalled as anyone and was screaming at the TV when they said it. At the end of the day, it was their buddies that put them in that position. Maybe they should reflect on that a little.

Not to mention that Brent Sopel posted on twitter last night that they took it to Sr. Managment and they told him it would be taken care of.

Beach never made the NHL and there are four practice groups in training camp. It is quite plausible he wasn't on the ice for said slur. We don't know.

Yes, I can grasp nuance and understand complex arguments. They deserve all of the flak they get for defending Bowman. In the best light, it's tone deaf and insensitive. There's no excuse for saying that, but he's in denial. He cannot believe how much of a monster his buddy Stan is. (this is nuance and a complex argument btw) At the end of the day, if the Hawks Sr. Management did the right thing, nobody is talking about this today.

What can they realistically do? Go to the same people that decided to cover up rape? Are you suggesting they attempt to force a sexual assault victim to go to the police before he was ready? We're all disappointed in TKK last night, but there is no moral equivalence between the players and upper management. It's fine to be disappointed in them, but I think putting the players in the same moral bag as upper management is overly harsh and unjustifiable. They're no angels, but they're not villains either.

McCub seems like the kind of old school guy that would go down with the ship and protect his boss. I'm on the fence here. There is definitely plausible deniability, but also deserved skepticism.

I have read the report and have been following the reporting on the subject. This is what the evidence points to. Shawn Lalonde was Beach's roomate in 2010 and he said he didn't even know that anything had happened until the next training camp.

Don't disagree, but I believe him that he only heard rumors. I think the failure to act by the players was because they had thought it had already been addressed when Aldrich was gone. Brent Sopel alluded to as much. My belief is that the 6 assholes who covered it up were the only ones that knew the entire story and the severity. None of the players knew that the Hawks senior management were monsters. I mean, Toews and Kane were still in disbelief last night. They cannot believe that their buddies Stan and Al are such monsters, it's the only rational thing that explains what they said. Bowman looks especially slimy, after making excuses even after the reports

Toews and Kane deserve to get lambasted for making excuses for their buddies Stan and Al, but in the end this was above their level. What are they supposed to do, go to the same people that have already decided to cover up date rape? 99% of the blame goes to Hawks Sr. management. Direct your vitriol there. John McDonough Stan Bowman Joel Quenneville James Gary Al MacIsaac Kevin Cheveldayoff Direct your ire toward those people. They are the people who had the power to act, and did nothing. The players could have only reasonably gone to them, and they had already decided to squash the whole story. Even if the players would have acted, it would have accomplished nothing.

Andrew Vaughn and Garrett Crochet isn't enough? I like Crochet but I don't see how he's getting out of the bullpen here.

I still want to acquire Bryan Reynolds.

Already on.

Ultimately, I will continue following the team but my interest is muted for now.

You know what.....fuck it. Fuck these guys.......

I tend to agree, it would make me feel a lot better about continuing on as a Hawks fan, but I have no faith in Bettman to do that. He could, step down and pass the torch to Danny which would be the next best option.

After seeing some of the report, Joel Quenneville is a massive piece of shit and needs to be given the Pete Rose treatment.

This shit is disgusting and despicable, however I am willing to give the org a 2nd chance based on how Rocky and Danny handled this. Kudos to them.

I know this is kind of unrelated, but if they knew this was a possibility, how in the fuck does ownership let Bowman make a franchise-altering trade like the Jones deal knowing full well he's on his way out????