Jack Parkman

Yeah, you're right......at least publicly. I think Charles Koch loves Trump's policies but despises his demeanor. But at the same time he said he should have corrupted both parties simultaneously, which is scary as fuck. Maybe Sheldon Adelson would have been a better choice. George Soros would have nothing to do with what happened Wednesday, if you know anything about him. It's just another right wing conspiracy theory.

It's more of a 401k/bonus thing. It belongs to the company but the company cannot use it for anything other than employee bonuses or retirement contributions. It is also there so that the company cannot make decisions that actively hurt its workers, and that the rank and file have a voice in the direction of the company. It has to go into the pocket of the workers, or the workers can choose to re-invest some of their profits in the company. What makes me trust government is that in theory, governments are accountable to the people, while business is accountable to nobody but themselves. I trust business substantially less than government. If the government fails to keep business in check then it has abdicated its responsibility. The main economic role of government is to hold business accountable to the citizens of its country. Business has repeatedly proven that it cannot be trusted without heavy regulation. My trust in business ethics is zero. I believe "business ethics" is an oxymoron. While Reagan said "government isn't the solution, it is the problem" I think that private business isn't the solution, it is the problem. When left to their own devices, business will make decisions that are destructive to society. It's up to government to watch them and force them into making decisions that are good for the largest amount of people.

lol.....more likely Charles Koch.

@caulfield12 have you ever heard of Nick Hanauer/Pitchfork Economics? It's a very good podcast. I read that guy on Medium you posted about in the fall with regard to the sociopath issue. I've been saying that for years. We have a society that rewards sociopathic behavior here.

I've read snippets of Picketty's stuff, I'm aware of it. He has some good ideas. I do not think the jury is out on capitalism's long-term sustainability. It's completely unsustainable. We're seeing how it's breaking down in the US as we speak. You can hold off income inequality temporarily, but you can't hold it off forever. More Machiavellian principles. IMO what happened on Wednesday is directly related to income inequality. I am very anti-authoritarian, get that out of the way right now. As a socialist, I have to point that out all of the time because most people equate socialism with authoritarianism. Yes, I agree that China is closer to an authoritarian capitalist state(like Putin's Russia) than a Marxist/Leninist communist state. I do not believe true Marxism is actually achievable, because of human nature and Machiavellian principles. Power corrupts, etc. The bottom line is that I think that the economy should work for everyone, and preserve the planet. Cycle of prosperity. If they can get that done while maintaining capitalism, I'll be surprised but if they can, more power to them. The first step is what I call "capitalism with a conscience" That involves every layer of power, be it governmental or business, being accountable to the public. If we can get the tax rates, labor laws(minus the racism), and anti-trust laws/enforcement back to where they once were in the US, that would be a good start. That can work for a while, then we can go further. The US has a lot of things right, when it comes to personal freedoms. It has a lot of things wrong when it comes to economic freedom, unless you believe in the right-wing libertarian definition. My definition of economic freedom is that every citizen has their basic needs met, based on the economic bill of rights in FDR's 1944 speech.

No way man, I want the American Dream as it existed prior to 1980 to be extended to every subset of society. Before then, it was only available for white Americans. There are a lot of problems in current America and I want to fix them. There are a lot of aspects to current America that are really, really shitty. How is saying that you want an economy that works for everyone a threat to America? I'm not trying to overthrow the government, bro. I'm working to elect people to office that will support policies and laws that achieve these goals. If I cannot convince enough people to elect my preferred candidates, or we cannot get enough votes in congress to enact the laws, so be it. That's democracy. Everything that I suggested, sans job guarantees has been done to some degree somewhere in Europe. I think everyone should be allowed, at the very least, dignity. That's really fucking scary man if you think that's a national security threat. These are all endgame, long-term goals. Basically, I believe that the government's job is to set the rules of the marketplace such that it works for everyone, not just the wealthy. Those are some of the rules that I think would help. The reasoning to this is that I think that a you cannot be free unless your basic needs are met. Basic Needs are defined in FDR's Economic Bill of Rights below. I believe the current system is inhumane and does not treat the majority with dignity. FDR's Economic Bill of Rights: https://www.ushistory.org/documents/economic_bill_of_rights.htm

I believe capitalism and true democracy cannot coexist, because extreme income inequality is a feature of capitalism, not a bug. I am not a Leninist at all. I think Marx failed to take into account human nature and power vacuums. I agree with Marx's criticism of capitalism, but I disagree with his solutions. I believe in the Nordic model and to make labor and capital into a partnership instead of enemies. I do not believe that people should be forced into working in co-ops, but I also do not think that hierarchical organizations should be abolished either. It should be a choice made by each individual worker. Both options should be abundant and available. I believe every industry should have a union and collectively bargain. I believe in laws that, as a whole slightly favor consumers and labor over business. I believe in a strong social safety net and am a proponent of job guarantees rather than UBI. Anyone who wants to work, should be able to. Universal healthcare and generous retirement plans are a must. By that same token, any couple who wants one of them to be a full-time parent, should be able to have the breadwinner provide a decent lifestyle. I think that 50% of corporate shares should be held by the employees and rank and file employees should be elected to the board as they do for congress. Workers comprise 50% of corporate boards and investors the other 50%. I always am and have been a strong proponent of democracy. I believe that these things should be achieved through legislation, and free/fair elections within the system as it currently exists rather than via revolution. Revolution creates an unstable power vacuum ripe for exploitation. It is up to democratic socialist organizations to win the war of ideas. To summarize, I'm on more of the Robert Reich/FDR train of thought rather than more radical ideas. Modern democratic socialists are mostly social democrats, like myself. We call ourselves democratic socialists to present ourselves as an alternative to laissez-faire capitalism. In short, I want the government the hell out of my house, but up the ass of my workplace. Democratic Socialism, to me, is a system where the economy works for everyone instead of a small subset of the population. People can still be incredibly successful, but nobody hoards wealth.

I could have bought that decent people voted for Trump in 2016. It is very difficult to defend anyone who voted for him in 2020. These people are incredibly selfish at best, and downright traitors at worst. I hope the FCC looks into Fox News, Newsmax and OAN as extremist organizations and revokes their license. Fox News is the gateway to the radicalization of the right.

I must have missed that, but it wouldn't surprise me if these people were flown to DC in private jets. There needs to be a full investigation and we need to arrest anyone who was involved in any way. If there was a super PAC that helped, they need to dig to find who the donors are.

Yes?

Hey, we agree on something. Those people who stormed the capitol are just pawns being used by certain billionaires.

No, there are no absolutes. What I mean is that one side respects political norms the majority of the time, and the other rarely does. In both rhetoric and actions. Public corruption is public corruption though, and neither side is immune. The GOP pushes the envelope further and further, and they test how far they can push it until you get an event like 1/6/21.

Yep. Internationally, the US has no moral high ground on human rights abuses anymore, if they ever had it to begin with.

Hello, one side plays dirty, and the other side plays by the rules. If you can't discern the difference, I cannot help you.

The bolded is the fundamental disagreement here. No, we're not better than that. I think we'd all like to think that we are, but if you have an accurate portrayal of the history of the country, I cannot say that I can agree. I've seen it since I was a kid. 70 Million Americans voted for Trump. That's somewhere between 45-48% of the electorate. I do not believe that anyone could vote for Trump in 2020 (i'd be willing to give people the benefit of the doubt in 2016) without being at least mildly sympathetic to fascism. It's a huge problem.

Nobody disagrees with that...... What you're saying comes across as a mild defense of fascism, and an inauthentic condemnation of the events at the Capitol Wednesday. I do not believe this is what you're trying to do, but this is how you're coming across. This is not about left wing extremism. Not one bit. I do not understand why you do not understand that. When it comes to the enemy of my enemy is my friend, for left wingers the ultimate enemy is fascism. They're overwhelmingly more likely to side with the federal government, which is more neutral, than racist fascists.

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better.

The CIA has a long history of being sympathetic to fascism, as well as overthrowing governments and installing fascist dictators. They are at least partially responsible for the Coup that overthrew and murdered Chilean president Salvador Allende in 1973(who was democratically elected) and installing Augusto Pinochet as dictator. Pinochet stayed in power until 1990 and was among the most brutal dictators in modern history.

Nobody disagrees with you, man. We're talking about ideology because fascism is a massive threat to national security at the moment. I'm a card carrying socialist but I'd condemn anyone trying to overthrow the government in a similar way, even if I agree with their ideology. I want to change the system by legislation and policy, while getting people elected to congress and state legislatures while working within the system as it currently exists. I do not support authoritarian regimes, period. I believe in democracy as being more important than my economic ideology. There are some that believe in capitalism, white supremacy, or both over democracy.

I agree with you that it shouldn't matter. You have no arguments with me there. I cannot speak for StrangeSox, but I think that this is NOT the time to be both sides-ing things. My problem isn't that you think that the law should be non-discriminatory. It's more about the both sides-ing rhetoric, while not acknowledging that the fascists are the problem right now. You're giving off the vibe that you're at least slightly sympathetic to them right now. I do not think that you are, but that's how you're coming across. I'd say that about anyone bringing up Left-wing stuff right now. The only reason to bring up left wing stuff at this moment is to deflect and minimize the fascist problem in the US. It's whataboutism in its purest form.

The ideology matters because fascism has become fairly mainstream in the US, and it needs to be condemned before it gains even more power. It's not going away unless we make it. Even though Trump is 74, there are others with fascist tendencies in the GOP and they could lead these people. This is a right wing/fascist issue. Stop trying to both sides this.

Nobody wants to cut anyone slack by ideology. I can tell you right now, that right wing extremism is waaaaaaay more of a problem than left wing extremism, though the media would like you to think otherwise. If you want me to send you a PM, I can explain.

Do you realize that nobody with a left wing ideology would be at a Trump rally? The literally left the Trump rally and went straight to the capitol. Do not buy the propaganda that there were left wingers in there.

And these people are being treated more leniently by the justice system for leading an insurrection than people who were marching for basic human rights.

Thank you.