WCSox

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 3, 2008 -> 08:20 AM) I agree with some of your post, but the above is just way off base. If you want to know why Quentin was traded, look at Arizona's outfield - it was already incredibly crowded with very, very good players, who were already established. ARI needed something other than outfielders. So, they went out and traded for a very good position prospect at a position where they actually had a need. I have never read anything indicating that Quentin was failing to live up to expectations. Look at his performance over the years - he was a huge hitter at every level, until he got hurt, and played a quarter of a season of at bats for ARZ. While hurt. Ozzie didn't expect him to start because he thought he needed more time for the shoulder to recover - this was reporter all over the place. So no, I don't think you can by any definition say his career was tanking or wasn't going well. Quentin was traded for a Single-A player who is currently hitting .211 and isn't even in the D-backs organization anymore. And, yes, I realize that ARI's outfield was packed, but if Quentin was such a blue-chip bad-ass, why did they deal him for a lesser prospect with no experience above A-ball? Is he incapable of playing 1B, or were they absolutely convinced that Conor Jackson was a better option? If the D-backs were so confident in Quentin's abilities, I find it odd that they dealt him while he was still recovering from a shoulder injury after two mediocre partial ML seaosns (i.e., when his trade value was at its lowest), instead of sending him back to AAA and allowing him to heal, hit better, and have more trade value. Unless he was out of options, it seems to me that the D-backs lost confidence in Quentin.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 3, 2008 -> 08:51 AM) This is not an old team - and just over 30 isn't old by hitting standards. Thome is getting old by baseball standards, but the rest of the lineup is still relatively young. Thome is a dinosaur by baseball standards, and Cabrera and Dye are both past their primes as hitters (mid-30's). Yeah, Quentin was so highly-regarded by the D-backs that they dealt him for a lesser prospect. He'll be 26 in August and his two years in Arizona were plagued with injuries and a general failure to live up to expectations. Ozzie didn't even expect him to make the roster back in ST. So, yeah, I'd say that Quentin's career wasn't going very well this past winter and that he was under some pressure to produce at the ML level. I don't doubt that the Sox could potentially benefit from a new hitting coach. Whether or not Walker is a "bad" hitting coach is up for debate, but one could certainly argue that the Sox's hitters aren't responding to him. So I wouldn't object to letting him go. That said, I find it odd that Sox hitters were so much more productive under Walker from early '03 until about August of '06 (with a drop-off in '05 due to the losses of Carlos, Maggs, and Frank). I think there's a much better chance that many of them have regressed as hitters over time than Walker has regressed as a coach over time. And when I see an in-his-prime vet like Swisher swinging at balls in the dirt and popping up with a runner on 3rd, I get the feeling that there's a general lack of discipline in the clubhouse as well.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 3, 2008 -> 08:03 AM) A slump doesn't last 2 years. If we were talking about just this season, I'd agree - moving the hitting coach is too rash. But we are talking about a team that, offensively, has been below expectations for a couple years now. Even in 2005, they weren't great - just good enough. The only time the team really looked good offensively was the first half of 2006. This isn't a slump. Its a consistent track record of hitters getting worse on arriving in Chicago, or being here and then getting worse with Walker arrived, or just plain hitting below expectations. The success stories of hitters improving under his tuteledge are very few, and the disappointments many. At some point, being the hitting coach, that responsibility has to land on his doorstep. IMO, now is that time. Notice that many of the veterans who aren't hitting (Thome, Paulie, Crede, Cabrera) are 30 or older. That doesn't necessarily mean that their skills have diminished to the point where they're not effective anymore (except maybe in Thome's case), but nagging injuries tend to become more of a problem on the wrong side of 30 (Paulie this year, and Thome/Dye/Crede last year). As bad as Swisher and Fields have looked at the plate at times, I'd be more comfortable with those guys two years down the road than Konerko or Crede. If Walker is the problem, how did the Sox hit well in '03, '04, and (most of) '06? And how did they go from very solid situational hitters in '05 to a crew that pops up three straight times with a runner on 3rd and no outs? And how is it that Quentin, who doesn't have a $20+ million contract and began this season desperately trying to salvage his ML career, has thrived under Walker? It seems to me that many of the veterans are just showing up to work to collect a paycheck. They looked like they gave up at this point last year and are making incredibly stupid mental mistakes at the plate this year.

He's right about Thome, but apparently doesn't know that Paulie is playing through an injury. Paulie was even worse in 2003, while playing through another injury (and many people thought that his hip issue had caught up with him). Most players don't suddenly hit the wall and regress to the Mendoza Line at age 32. And it's not like he hit poorly last season (31 HRs, 116 OPS+), which also suggests that his production problems aren't due to a decline in skills.

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 02:16 PM) You may well be right on all this and quite possibly a change is needed simply for change's sake. However, isn't the equation ass backwards? The GM built this team of plodders and slow starters and apparently Guillen has a ton of personnel input. It is well known some of these guys: - start slow - are prone to long slumps - aren't selective at the plate - hit into lots of DP's - aren't the most gifted in baseball fundamentals - get power greedy It starts with the type of team that's built. How they have gone all this time without a legit leadoff hitter I'll never know. Good points, but keep in mind that the same formula of slow, home-run-happy, poor-base-running players with crappy fundamentals scored a ton of runs for the Sox from 2000-2003. I don't see a huge difference between Thome/Paulie/JD/Crede and Maggs/Lee/Valentin/late-career-trying-to-hit-500-HRs-Frank. They're all basically the same type of player: They hit lots of homers and doubles, but don't steal/run the bases well and can't bunt to save their lives. What I do see is an age difference. Thome is in the twilight of his career, Paulie and JD have been fighting nagging injuries (that age often induces) for the past calendar year, and Crede had major back surgery in the off-season (another wear-and-tear issue). This same offensive core went from bad-ass in early/mid 2006 to mediocre by the end of 2006, bottomed out last year, and haven't made much of an improvement since. But I'm still shocked that Swisher and Cabrera, who both put up very solid numbers over the past couple of seasons, have been so bad. Especially Swisher. I'm beginning to think that the clubhouse atmosphere may also just be really poor. Even if Walker is a crappy hitting coach, it shouldn't negatively effect veteran players with several years of successful hitting THAT much. There may just be a going-through-the-motions atmosphere. And that may explain why Quentin, who came into this season fighting to keep his ML career alive, hasn't succumbed to it (i.e., he's actually motivated).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 11:39 AM) I don't think any changes will occur, except perhaps line-up changes by Ozzie. KW making a trade or firing a coach will make him look like Ozzie's lackey. Not doing anything will make him look like Ozzie's boss, something he made perfectly clear he was in his comments about Ozzie's comments. Good point.

QUOTE (north side chi sox fan @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 11:52 AM) was Konerko hurt in 2003 or was he just bad? I believe that he played through a foot or ankle fracture.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 11:31 AM) I wouldn't have an issue if they moved Swisher to 1B/DH to rotate with Konerko or Thome for the time being. If Paulie's thumb becomes an issue again, this just might happen. Anderson deserves the opportunity because he is much better defensively than Swisher or any of our other outfielders. At the very least, he's earned his spot on the bench as a fourth outfielder and late-game defensive replacement. Agreed that Anderson shouldn't be thrown out there every single day as the "heir apparent", as this isn't a rebuilding year. But his skill set (great defense with some power), the failure of Kenny to land Hunter or Rowand this past winter, and the lack of other options in the organization deem that he needs a few at-bats this season. Even contending teams need to develop their young players. If that weren't the case, Garland never would've been dealt and Floyd would've been relegated to mop-up duty.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 09:05 AM) Anderson is all glove and no bat. The more you see him hit, the less you like him. With Swisher, there is potential he can regain his previous form. With Anderson, the best you can hope for is that he might hit enough to justify a stay on the major league roster. Swisher has been adequate in CF this year, so it's not like you've got Mackowiak playing center for you where it's just a total embarassment. As such, I'll take the drop off in defense for the hitting potential. Maybe I'm in the minority. Agreed to a certain extent, although Swisher is not a long-term option in CF. And as long as Anderson is hitting better than Swisher, I'd like to see Ozzie continue to give BA the nod a couple of days a week and give Swish some at-bats playing 1B and DH. If BA regresses to 2006 form, play Swish in CF every day. It's likely that JD will either be moved to DH next year or dealt in the off-season, which would move Quentin to RF, Swisher to LF, and open up a competition between Anderson and Owens in CF. This is basically Anderson's make-or-break year and Ozzie needs to see if he's capable of hitting well enough to be an every-day CF for the Sox next season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 07:59 AM) On what planet has OC been a massive upgrade over Uribe? Perhaps simply "upgrade" would've been a better term. Still, it's pretty silly to argue that the Sox would've been better off with Uribe as their only option at SS.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 03:34 PM) Kenny wasted his best bargaining chips (Garland and our 3 top prospects) on two players who have sucked. He got Quentin and fixed the bullpen (by paying a steep price) which were great moves. I don't think that constitutes an overall great offseason. Kenny getting Linebrink and Dotel has taken our bullpen from the outhouse to the penthouse. Dumping Garland's salary in favor of Floyd (who is currently pitching better than Garland at a massive discount) also gave the Sox the financial flexibility to replace Uribe with a better SS and to give us an every-day CF. While Swisher has been a dud with the bat so far, he's done a fine job filling in the gaping hole in CF and Cabrera has been a massive upgrade over Uribe. Oh, and Quentin is a legitimate MVP candidate. Getting a player like that for a prospect is nothing short of robbery. I'd say that's an outstanding offseason. I realize that people are pissed off right now, but posts like these are completely illogical. If you want to be pissed off at somebody, try the players who are hitting well below their career numbers.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:09 PM) Those comments are pretty much KW deflecting blame for getting a couple duds and letting his roster get old. Which "duds" are those? I'd much rather have Cabrera than Uribe at SS. And I'll bet that A's fans would love to send DLS back. I would think that obtaining Quentin for a prospect would help make up for Swisher's early struggles at the plate, but perhaps I'm giving Soxtalk too much credit. Kenny had an overwhelmingly good offseason this past Winter/Spring. Agreed that their roster is getting old, but some of those geriatric players are having pretty decent seasons (AJ, Dye, Crede) and nobody could've predicted an injury to PK. Outside of Thome's decline, it's pretty silly to pin that on the GM.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 03:04 PM) Paraphrased: I put together this mess Did your crystal ball predict that PK, JT, and Swish would all be hitting around the Mendoza Line in June? KW definitely has his shortcomings, but it's pretty silly to characterize a first-place team with arguably the best pitching staff in the league as a "mess."

QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:21 PM) I'd be very surprised... stunned in fact... if we see any roster changes. I think it's just venting... Ozzie style. Most likely. Outside of Walker getting the axe, there isn't much that Ozzie or KW can do.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 01:14 PM) Rodney is overrated, although Zumaya is a problem obviously IF he can stay healthy. As for the Twins, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they win this wretched division, these are the kinds of AL Centrals they won earlier this decade. Agreed about Rodney. He wasn't very good last year when he was healthy. And it remains to be seen if post-injury Zumaya will be anything like pre-injury Zyumaya... or if he will even stay healthy, for that matter. The Tigers have some very serious age/injury/steroids-withdrawal issues right now and it would take a minor miracle for them to reach the playoffs this year. The Twins and Indians appear to be the Sox's only real competition this year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:01 PM) I still think Tigers have a good shot to win the division. Maybe not by 10 games though! The 23-32 Tigers who have three starters with ERAs well over 5.00? I agree that they have the talent, but it would take way too many players to turn around their games. Rogers, Pudge, and Sheffield are done, Verlander has lost a ton of velocity, Zumaya is hurt, and Todd Jones is still their closer. Even if their offense turns into the juggernaut that they were supposed to be, they don't have the pitching to reach the playoffs.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) The worst part is, there aren't many changes that can be made. We already changed the lineup, Alexei playing everyday has already helped since he's hitting .300 since he started playing everyday, OC has been a bit better lately, and we're STILL not scoring. The offense just sucks, and all we can do is pray we hit enough home runs and have enough pitching to win this s***ty division. I doubt we can win the division this way though, which is sad because our pitching has been great. Agreed about our hitting sucking and the prospects of it improving being slim. Swisher and OC will get better, but Quentin and AJ aren't going to be able to carry the offense all season and will most likely tail off somewhat. Paulie will be playing through a nagging injury for the rest of the season, Crede isn't going to repeat late 2005/early 2006, Dye won't repeat 2006, and Thome looks like he's done. This lineup is old and it's showing. That said, the Sox still have a really good shot to win the Central. The Royals and Tigers are terrible and the Indians will struggle to win 85 games this season (and that's assuming that their lineup begins to hit). And, as usual, the Twins simply don't have the talent/resources to dominate. If the Sox continue pitching the way that they are, they could probably take the Central with 89 wins.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 29, 2008 -> 01:02 PM) I would be OK with a split, obviously would love 3-4 or 4-4, but Rays are playing great baseball right now. Yeah, and even when they weren't, the Sox have historically had trouble down there. I would be OK with a split, but 3-4 would be really nice.

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ May 29, 2008 -> 11:58 AM) I have my doubts about him. Small stature and a lot of torque on that arm with that curveball. Gio reminds me a little too much of Jim Parque.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 28, 2008 -> 02:59 PM) Well outside of New York, Chicago is probably the toughest media city to play sports in, so its pretty much still bad. I'd say that Philly and Boston are probably worse, but Chicago is definitely up there.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 27, 2008 -> 10:17 PM) Kenny isn't the type of guy who will put up with a whole lot of s*** from his players though He not-so-peacefully coexisted with Frank for several years. QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 28, 2008 -> 12:22 PM) O cab has been shipped all over the league It sounds like there may be a reason for that. If things don't work between Cabrera and the Sox over the long term, that's just fine with me. He's old, he'll cost a considerable amount to re-sign, and he isn't that great.

QUOTE (RME JICO @ May 28, 2008 -> 02:05 PM) I don't think Cleveland's bullpen is anywhere close to ours with or without Borowski. Linebrink and Jenks alone trump anything the Indians can throw out there in the 8th and 9th. True dat. The Sox have a stud closer and a semi-stud setup man. That alone makes them one of the better bullpens in the league. Look at what Frankie and Shields alone have done for the Angels over the past five years. No offense to the Indians, who have some good young talent in their 'pen, but they don't even have a defined closer right now. Their former closer is washed up and their former setup man has been terrible this year and morphs into LaTroy Hawkins when he's been thrown into the closer role. The lack of defined roles in their bullpen is a huge negative.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 28, 2008 -> 02:14 PM) When you say not pursued, you mean the White Sox aren't going to pursue him or other clubs are backing off him? I have no idea, as I'm not the one relaying the info from the radio. But if I had to guess, it's that the Sox aren't going to pursue him.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ May 28, 2008 -> 01:21 PM) on B&B just a few minutes ago, they were just told that Cabrera is most likely not going to be pursued in FA after this year, supposedly has something to do with clubhouse issues I would hope that his age and salary demands would factor into that decision as well. But if Cabrera acting like a b*tch is all it takes, so be it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2008 -> 01:03 PM) Well their bullpen is just as talented as the Sox is, save Borowski I'll take Jenks, Linebrink, and Logan over Borowski, Betanroids, and any of the remaining off-to-a-good-start-but-unproven arms in Cleveland's 'pen. The Indians don't have anything close to a shut-down closer right now. We have two, and two solid left-handed specialists to boot.