WCSox

I'll forever be in debt to Goose for helping keep the Cubs out of the '84 WS. Congrats, dude.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 04:43 PM) remember KW called Gio one of the 2 best lefthanded prospects in baseball and had him penciled as a front of the rotation starter Kenny also had a vested interest in inflating Gio's value as high as he possibly could. Regardless of how true or false his statement was, I don't believe a damn thing that Kenny says publicly.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) Value-for-value I think the trade is fine. Swisher is a fine ballplayer, and there's a lot of risk (but also a lot of upside) in the players the Sox gave up. My issue goes back to the beginning of the winter when the Sox made the decision to "GO FOR IT!" in 2008. The Sox are still behind at least five other teams as far as talent on the 25-man roster. A lot would have to go right for the Sox to be neck-and-neck with Detroit and Cleveland next September. The Sox still have a lot of talent on their roster and the Indians and Tigers are far from a lock to make the playoffs next year. Why not go for it, right after you've re-signed your ace and have one more year of Thome and Crede? If it doesn't work out, Paulie and Cabrera can be dealt at the deadline and the rebuilding process starts a few month early. Or would you rather that Kenny held a fire sale right now and pissed off thousands of season-ticket holders? Sounds to me like that would be a poor business decision. And how do you suppose that Mark and JD would react after Kenny sold them on contract extensions by telling them that they were going to go for it again in '08? Reneging on that promise would ruin his credibility and seriously damage his ability to re-sign vets in the future.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 03:40 PM) I don't see any value in evaluating prospects based on their trade value a year ago when you can just look at their performance and scouting reports instead. Gio lead the minors in K's so he obviously performed pretty well (though there's room for improvement in some areas) and scouts seem to like him even if they don't love him. DLS is a guy that the scouts do love and he put up impressive numbers last season. I don't think either player is one of the top 20 prospects in baseball but that doesn't mean they don't have worth to the team and couldn't still become very good major league players. Again, Gillick gave up Gio for a washed-up Freddy. That seems to support the notion supported by some here that he's at least somewhat overrated. He'll probably be a halfway decent starter, but we already have Danks, Floyd, and Broadway... along with Mark and Javy under contract for several more years. De Los Santos appears to have highest upside, but he's a good three years away. Sweeney is an afterthought in a suddenly-crowded outfield. I agree, but I don't think that's the point of this trade. Swisher's under contract until 2012 and he's only making $6-$8 million/year. It sounds to me like Kenny wants to rebuild around Swisher, regardless of what happens this season. Our farm system already sucks. Dealing these three guys doesn't change that. What's the worst that can happen? If the Sox fail to make the playoffs this year (which I agree is likely), they deal Paulie and Cabrera at the deadline for prospects to replenish their craphole of a farm system. They can also deal JD for prospects and buy out Thome's option next year to save more money. The real problem with the Sox is that their scouting department is completely f'ed up. I'd rather fix that and try to get by with proven major-league talent in the meantime than put all of my hopes on Gio and DLS with an irrational Ron Schueler-like optimism.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 03:08 PM) Which would you prefer? Miguel Cabrera or Josh Fields, Nick Swisher, John Danks More than likely the package headed to FLA for Cabrera would have involed the three we just traded, along with Fields and possibly John Danks. For everyone so pissed we "missed out" on Cabrera, we got Swisher for so much less so you should be elated. I have to agree with this. We got a rock-solid switch-hitting OF with power for a reasonable price, who is still under contract for four more years (and has a one-year option for 2012). And all it cost us was three good-but-not-great prospects. Cabrera would've cost us the ability to rebuild into a contender. I wasn't happy about the Cabrera-for-Garland deal, but I'm really happy about today's news.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:23 PM) And to think if so many people love this trade for the Sox, they are going to be vastly disappointed for the returns of Dye and Konerko. Didn't Dye's extension include a no-trade clause for '08?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:47 PM) I'm sorry, but that's a terrible goal to have. I think the goal should be prolonged success, and the Sox don't look to be in that position. Sounds like something that Ron Schueler would say. How did his strategy work out? Their core offense (Paulie, Thome, Dye, Swisher, Cabrera, Fields, and perhaps Crede) is going to f'n rake this season. That's a VERY strong lineup. Way to de-value Paulie, Cabrera, Fields, and Dye to support your argument. The Sox didn't deal projected superstar material to land Swisher. Therefore, I don't see what your problem is. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Sox give it one more shot before mailing it in and rebuilding in '09. If the Sox fail to contend this year (as many here think that will), they can deal Paulie and Cabrera for prospects at the deadline. And they can deal Dye at the deadline in '09 for even more prospects.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:20 PM) I just don't believe you can decimate your farm system like this, at least not unless you're adding the final few pieces to a championship team. We now have the worst farm system in baseball by a considerable margin. I don't understand how any Sox fans can be okay with that. I agree in general, but our farm system was pretty bad before this deal. Gillick dealt Gio for one year of a broken-down Freddy. That doesn't exactly scream "Future stud!" I don't recall DLS being projected to be a super-stud either. Having Sweeney would've been nice, but we're not lacking outfielders at this point. Outside of losing Garland, I think that Kenny's done a halfway decent job of doing what he said he was going to: Re-tooling this team for one more shot at the playoffs... especially considering that he had no top-tier prospects to deal. He's improved the team significantly at SS, in the outfield, and we have a legitimate setup man now. I'm not sure that the Sox are a playoff-caliber team right now, but they look a hell of a lot better offensively than last year. And I'm not sure that the 'pen could be any worse. And if things don't work out this season, KW deals Paulie and Cabrera at the deadline for prospects and the Sox get a jump-start on their rebuilding. Sounds like a win-win to me.

QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:58 PM) so you are going to trade paul konerko for a pitcher that is slightly better than floyd? Come on. For Santana AND Figgins? I would STRONGLY consider that deal. Santana has filthy stuff, he's relatively cheap, and our rotation is pretty average right now. Figgins is also cheap, incredibly versatile, and can steal 40-50 bases per season.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:48 PM) Yes he would. Currently 40% of our rotation is based purely on potential. Santana has more potential than that 40%, and 100% of our minor leagues. Agreed. Santana may not have lived up to his potential, but I like him over Floyd in a second.

QUOTE(juddling @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:40 PM) Maybe the Sox should let Swish play 1B every day....trade Paulie (hurts to say that) and pick up at least 1 other starter. Paulie going to Angels for Figgins and E. Santana would work for me... I'd like to wait and see how April and May go, but trading Paulie would definitely be a possibility now. Gotta say I like this overall. From what I know, Gio and DLS weren't projected to be super-studs.

Could be, as his calves appear to have really shrunk. Still, I'd be willing to take a one-year flier on him if the price were reasonable.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:24 AM) No big surprise to me that we are kicking the tires on Mark Prior. I'll bet we are also wispering to Garcia and Colon as well. It also means that the whole Kenny line that everyone went crazy about was crap as well, like a few of us were trying to tell everyone. Kenny doesn't think Danks and Floyd are top flight pitchers, but he has to say that they are. His actions are what we should watch, not his words. The entire planet knows he is full of s***. Almost the entire planet. And a large percentage of those who haven't learned this yet post at Soxtalk.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 01:53 PM) So you've actually heard DJ without Hawk? Because I heard him do a national game last year with someone else, and I have to say, I thought he sounded pretty good. I think Hawk is what destroys DJ, really. Those two just have zero chemistry of any kind. +1

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 12:54 PM) Maybe Hawk can retire after this year, and we can move Stoney into the TV booth. Stoney isn't a play-by-play guy, so I'm not sure what that would accomplish. The few days that Hawk and Stoney worked together this past season sounded like a promising tandem.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 19, 2007 -> 12:11 PM) DJ and Chris are fine. Farmer is the problem. The problem with Farmer is that he's a color guy (and a pretty good one) trying to be a play-by-play guy. DJ is pretty decent, especially when he's not working with Hawk. Chris has not adjusted well to this field.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) He gets full no-trade protection in May I believe. Ah, I forgot that it was coming up in May already. I wouldn't mind KW dealing him if a really nice package of prospects were dangled in front of him. Still, I'm not sure what a good-but-not-great power-hitting 1B on the wrong side of 30 who has $36 million left on his deal is worth in terms of prospects. My feeling is that he isn't moved before then.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 14, 2007 -> 05:56 AM) I am simply not ready to deal PK yet. I agree. Aren't we still trying to compete this year (with an emphasis on "trying")? Kenny's one-year-of-Jon for one-year-of-Cabrera swap suggests that he's still on that path. I'd rather hold onto Paulie and see how April-June goes. If we're in the same position at the deadline that we were last year, I'd be in favor of seeing what we can get for him and possibly pulling the trigger.

I would take anything that Kenny or any other GM says with a liberal dosage of salt. If they're smart, they're only going to make comments that either help or have a chance of helping their organization... and that often does not include the truth. They're glorified salesmen. They need to sell the team to the fans and to free agents that they're courting. They need to sell their players and prospects to other GMs. They don't have a vested interest in being honest.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 01:19 PM) Well if someone has pictures of Reinsdorf coming down to the clubhouse passing out vials to players...then I'll put some more of the blame on Jerry. These are grown men that decided to do this...and when it comes to blame...I'd like to go with the guys that made their own bed. Not that MLB and the MLBPA don't deserve a ton of blame, but the players didn't police themselves either.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) I've been known to rip Frank but he deserves a lot of love for being an ethical ball player and one of the most amazing offensive players to ever play the game (I'm going to start saying that a lot because Thomas' accomplishments were really lessened by the results of the steroid driven players). +1,000,000

Please tell me that Sosa is named in there.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:17 AM) Mitchell urging the Commish not to take action based on past actions except in the worst cases. Like Barry?

QUOTE(Linnwood @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:03 AM) http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf ^^^ LOL at these dumbass meatheads writing PERSONAL CHECKS for illegal drugs.