WCSox

QUOTE(Linnwood @ Nov 15, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) Maybe someone learned how to sing while he was in the big house. Yep. I hardly find it coincidental that he was released on the same day that Barry was indicted. I've always suspected that Barry was paying him under the table to keep his mouth shut. Perhaps Barroids missed a couple of payments?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 15, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) Exhibits alpha and omega. *waits for someone to claim this was a plant* The increasing size of Barry's noggin was proof enough for me. Although, I have to agree with Soxbadger that the government's case against Bonds for perjury might not be that strong. I don't see him doing any time for that or obstruction of justice. And thanks to Balta for posting the classic Family Guy moment.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) I think the chances of Fields going to AAA are near zero. Heck, KW couldn't even say it without a caveat after. Its just posturing. Either Crede or Fields will almost certainly be traded before the end of ST. Yeah, sending him down to the minors would be such a ridiculous move that floating it out there would have to be some sort of negotiation tactic on KW's part. If KW deals Fields, he'd freaking better get something outstanding in return. Fields may have whiffed too much last year, but it's not easy to find a young player who will be ultra-cheap for the next few years and who can play 3B and put up a 101 OPS+ as a rookie.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) For the short time he was there, yes, he was pretty bad. But he just hadn't played the position before. You put him there for all of ST, or for some time in winterball just so he can see fly balls coming at him from that angle and he'd probably pick it up to at least Lee level pretty quick. I can see him being bad there at first, but LF is not a difficult position to learn. It'd be kind of stupid to send a guy who it 23 dingers in 100 games as a rookie down to Triple A, especially when the Sox don't have a better option in LF right now. Even if his low OBP is a concern, move him down to the bottom of the lineup. He's not going to adjust to major-league pitching in the minors.

I didn't get a chance to see much of Fields in LF this year. Is he really THAT bad? Worse than Pods... or Carlos Lee, for that matter?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Cabrera is actually younger than Fields. Well, that's nice, but their relative ages were never an issue for me. I'm more concerned about how much they cost and how long the Sox would have them under contract. Cabrera is pretty much a pipe dream anyway.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 01:56 PM) The sox are the type of team that would try to extend a player like that first. I would certainly hope so. If they could pull it off, I'd be pretty happy, even if it cost Fields.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) The Sox are going to have a s*** load of money to spend by 2010 when Cabrera is ready to cash in. He'll only be 27 years old and I definitely think the Sox would be willing to pay him what he's worth. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Cabrera's going to command somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 million by then. There is some precedent of the powers that be opening the coffers (Belle), but what's to stop the Yankees or Red Sox from out-bidding JR & Co.? Both of those teams are going to be looking at replacing their aging sluggers by then as well.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 01:38 PM) 2 seasons I believe. I'd rather not trade Fields for two seasons of Cabrera, especially considering that the Sox probably won't be competitive in 2009. They need to hold onto their cheap, young talent and build around them. If it's going to take Josh to get Cabrera, I'd rather that Kenny just signed Hunter.

How much longer until Cabrera is a FA? He can't have more than a year or two left under team control/arbitration, no?

I'd love Cabrera's bat... but not his glove. I'd rather hold onto Fields and move Cabrera to DH after Thome leaves.

I could stomach one more year of Uribe if KW went out and got Hunter.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 07:28 AM) I'd rather not pay Hunter and save the money for Miguel Cabrera. That guy loves Ozzie. Show him the money and get him in shape. He would be awesome at USCF. Just don't let him play 3B.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 08:10 AM) An assbag telling the truth. He's absolutely right. Fans are b****ing and moaning about ticket prices in the $40 range and he knows damn straight the pissy whining that would take place if they had to raise prices to $70 - which is what would have to happen to support a payroll that included ARod. Not to mention the fact that giving Pay-Rod another $200+ million would financially-strap the Sox when it came to signing other FAs. Putting that many eggs in one basket, even a HOF basket, is just not a good idea. Arrogance aside, people like Kenny and Schuerholz criticize A-Rod's contract for a reason. And it's not because they're overly-emotional and blurt out whatever comes to mind.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 22, 2007 -> 06:30 AM) The 2 aces didnt show up That was the greatest factor, IMO. You're not going to get by in a seven-game series with Westbrook and Byrd as your only effective starters. With the way that Sabathia and Carmona gave it up, I'm surprised that it even went seven games.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Oct 22, 2007 -> 09:24 AM) Rockies, because Red Sox fans are the most obnoxious, annoying fans I've ever seen. +1 Most of them are also Patriots fans, and they're even worse.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) You're whole argument for not paying ARod is based on 29 ABs. OK, I'll try one last time... Players who want to be regarded as the greatest ever and also want ridiculous blockbuster deals need to play well in the post-season. Therefore, those 29 ABs (or actually, all of his 96 playoff ABs in NY) are weighed a heck a lot more heavily in in my book. You think that's unfair? Well, if A-Rod wants a ridiculous $300 million in guaranteed money (or even another $250 million deal), I'm going to raise the bar ridiculously high and demand that he be god-like in the playoffs. If A-Rod wants to $100 million more than anybody else in the league, he'd better be head-and-shoulders above everybody else on the field in October. He wasn't even the best YANKEE in the playoffs. Kind of like how A-Rod's "career .280 BA" that you keep bringing up is padded with numbers from 7-10 years ago in Seattle. What's more relevant to A-Rod's projected play as he enters his mid-30's: what he did 7-10 years ago entering the prime of his career or what he did over the past few years on the wrong side of 30? Are you going to try to convince me that Frank's stats from the '90s are a better indication of how he'll play in his 40's than how he's played in Oakland and Toronto recently? In New York, A-Rod hit .245 in 96 playoff ABs. That's not terrible considering the level of pitching he's facing but, again, you can get that type of production out of a player for 1/3 of the cost. Even if we consider that A-Rod has a career .280 playoff average, Jeter (who isn't demanding $250-$300 million) trumps him with a career .309 average (there's your large sample size). Even if I have to move him to 3B, I'd easily take five years of Jeter and somebody like Rowand at a combined $35 mil per over five years of A-Rod at $30 mil per. It's not even close. Don't get me wrong: I agree that A-Rod's awesome and that IF THE MONEY WERE REASONABLE (say, 5/150), I'd love to have him in a Sox uniform. But that's the problem. He's going to want another 10/250-300 deal. The Sox would probably need a $150 million payroll right away to stay competitive with Pay-Rod hawging all of the funds and would have no financial flexibility for the next decade. And even if JR and & Co. COULD swing that, you're putting all of your eggs in one basket with a $300 mil player. If he slumps, gets injured, or his skills decline significantly, you're screwed.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) What's ridiculous is ARod's postseason struggles are based on 29 at bats. 29 at bats have convinced someone that a guy with ARod's track record, can't handle playoff pressure. I can't tell if that's just a really bad strawman argument or if your reading comprehension needs serious work. QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 09:41 AM) Look, I'm not saying that A-Rod is a choke or that he's going to be a mediocre-to-bad player in the post-season from here on out. QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 09:41 AM) I never said that he was [a choke]. I simply said that he has a history of having difficulty playing under pressure. That's not the same as somebody who NEVER plays well under pressure.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 10:01 AM) Look, you're being silly. Everyone has bad postseasons, whether it's in "HIGH-PRESSURE!" environments or not, from Babe Ruth (the greatest to ever play the game) to Barry Bonds to Randy Johnson. That Rodriguez has had a few rough postseasons against some of the best pitchers in baseball doesn't mean anything at all and shouldn't determine his next contract and won't. If you want to agree to disagree on this point, that's fine. But you're not going to convince me that all players deal with pressure (from the playoffs or otherwise) with the same level of effectiveness. It just isn't true. I've watched every Colts playoff game since Peyton's been there. Even as a huge fan of him I can tell you that, even considering the typically better defenses that he faces in the playoffs, he has a history of making better decisions in the regular season than in the post-season. Most of his really good playoff performances have been against average-to-bad defenses (vs. DEN in '03 and '04, @ KC in '03), with last year's AFC Championship game being the exception. He has literally given away playoff games at times (@ NE in '03) and his team has even won despite his poor performances in others (last year against the Chiefs and Ravens, for example... and the picks that he threw were incredibly ill-timed, as his team had the lead for the duration of both games). There have also been a couple of times where he's disappeared for a half and been a non-factor (vs. PIT in '05, @ NYJ in '02). As much as I like Peyton, he has a well-documented history of pressing in the playoffs at times and making bad decisions, whether those be picks or checking out of runs and trying to hit Marvin or Reggie in the endzone when he doesn't need to. That's not to say that I wouldn't want him as my QB, but even if he does break all of Favre's passing records, I wouldn't necessarily "crown his ass" as the greatest ever either.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 09:53 AM) Funny you use Manny Ramirez as an example. Manny hit .056 in the 1999 playoffs. He hit under .200 in the 1997 WS. Using the same philosophy with him you use with ARod, if you were in a position of decision for the Red Sox you would not have signed him. So are you trying to argue that what Manny and A-Rod did 8-10 years ago is just as relevant as what they've done over the past few years? If that's true, then I expect Frank to hit .320 this year and be an MVP candidate. In Boston (you know, one of those high-pressure environments) Manny has been overwhelmingly golden in the post-season. Oh, and Manny isn't making $250 million from his current contract either. Nor is Scott Boras asking for $300 million and touting Manny as the greatest to ever play the game.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 05:30 AM) Um well, players do get paid for the playoffs. They get paid from a pool of money which gets divided into shares. The players vote who gets what kind of share. Timo and Konerko each got paid exactly the same for the 2005 playoffs. They even each get paid a little more for winning the division. That money is negligible in comparison to their contracts so, again, I don't see what your point is. The Yankees weren't paying A-Rod to GET to the post-season. When they traded for him, they had more than enough offensive talent to win their division, or at least the Wild Card, without him. He was supposed to be the guy who put them over the top once they got there. Uh, no I don't. You're heavily weighing numbers from several years ago from a completely different team where his role and the expectations around him were not the same. He's been average-to-bad over the past few years. Speaking of "playing on the biggest stage", look at what Manny has done since going to Boston (easily the second biggest stage and not far behind NY) in the post-season. Talk about pressure... those guys hadn't won crap since 1918 when he got there. That was probably a HIGHER-stress environment than NY. Compare what Manny has done for the Red Sox in the playoffs to what A-Rod has done for the Yankees and it's not even close. Do you think that anybody in Boston would trade Manny's post-season numbers for A-Rod's regular-season MVPs? Neither do I. I never said that he was. I simply said that he has a history of having difficulty playing under pressure. That's not the same as somebody who NEVER plays well under pressure. That's true. I'm sure that everyone here remembers how freaking bad Vlad was in the '05 ALCS. He was clearly pressing, swinging at all kinds of crap outside of the strike zone. Sox pitching wasn't giving him anything to hit. But it's not like Vlad had a ton of protection in that lineup. Meanwhile, A-Rod's '04-'06 Yankees offenses were some of the best collections of offensive talent EVER, and it's not like he wasn't getting pitches to hit. What's A-Rod's excuse? Geez, Andy Pettite could've hit better than him in '05 and '06. Look, I'm not saying that A-Rod is a choke or that he's going to be a mediocre-to-bad player in the post-season from here on out. But he hasn't done crap in the playoffs since the '04 ALDS and hasn't been consistently good there since 2000 in Seattle. And this is supposedly the best player of his generation and perhaps the best player EVER? Uh, I don't think so. A-Rod's awesome for sure, but you can't reasonably ask for $300 million and the "Best Player Ever" title with some of the recent post-season performances he's had. From a hitting perspective, I'll take Manny over him in a second.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) If Konerko and ARod were teammates, their playoff pay would be the same. Um, well, players aren't payed per playoff game. And the last time that I checked, A-Rod's current contract is about five times that of Konerko's, so I'm not really sure what your point is. (1) Before the strawman arguments get out of hand, my point was that A-Rod was a "liability" in the '05 and '06 post-seasons only. That wasn't meant as a general statement. (2) The Yankees didn't need A-Rod to make the playoffs in 2005 or 2006. He was supposed to put them over the hump (or at least help them get past the ALDS) and he failed to deliver. I'm not saying that he's supposed to hit .400 and drive in three or four runs each game, but 30 and 130 points below the Mendoza line in consecutive playoff series completely is unacceptable for ANY marquee player, especially the supposed "best player in the game." (3) I understand what you're saying with the "small sample size" comment, but you have to understand that elite pro athletes (especially those that make $25 million/year) are EXPECTED to deliver in the "small sample size" known as the playoffs. Not every elite player is expected to play off-the-charts well in every playoff series, but you have to deliver at least decent results in the big games. Since being traded to the Yankees, A-Rod has hit over .270 in ONE of five playoff series... and he's hit below .135 in TWO of them. And all four of those teams would've made the playoffs without him. I give him credit for having some good post-seasons in Seattle where he was in Griffey and Edgar's shadows, but he wasn't the same after signing that blockbuster contract and playing in the high-stress environment of the Bronx. Those two factors raised expectations significantly and I'm not sure that he was able to deal with the pressure effectively. That doesn't mean that he couldn't have post-season success in Chicago but, again, one has to wonder if he's going to have trouble again being "The Man" and delivering in the post-season after his next $200+ million contract.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 04:10 PM) Just curious... how much effect do people think it has on A-Rod's situation that Torre is leaving? It could have a lot, given that the vast majority of Torre's current and former players really like him. What may have even more of an impact is Steinbrenner stepping down and his sons taking over the day-to-day operations.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 03:57 PM) Paul Konerko came up big in 2005. He's a career .224 hitter in post season play. ARod is a career .280 hitter in the post season, and he's a liability. Paul Konerko doesn't make $25 million a year. I don't know about you, but I expect Boston-era Manny Ramirez playoff numbers for $200+ million guaranteed.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 03:50 PM) A failure, but not a liability. Uh, yeah, because a failure is much better than a liability. Good one! Since you're incapable of understanding them, I don't bother anymore. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 03:54 PM) What about his playoff performances in 1997,2000, and 2004. You seem to be cherry-picking. I am, but you can't hit 30 and 170 points below the freaking Mendoza line in the playoffs in consecutive years if you're making $20+ million a year. Some people have a difficult time performing in pressure situations. Is A-Rod one of those people? I'm not sure at this point and I wouldn't want to spend $300 million to find out.