WCSox

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 09:31 AM) Eh, he was still there and had some huge hits, he was a big part of that team. Like Balta said, I wish nobody from that team was mentioned but Everett really isn't that surprising when you think about it. Everett was a DH with a horrible OBP. He was basically a switch-hitting Uribe who didn't make any defensive contributions. Despite his 23 homers, was probably the least important person in the lineup. Rowand or Pods being named in the Mitchell Report would've been much more damaging, IMO. Agreed about Frank. Albert Belle's name wasn't that surprising, especially since it's almost universally-known that he corked his bats.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 09:16 AM) I really did have a feeling the Sox would come out of this looking ok, if for no other reason than the fact that even a juicer would be scared to shoot up around Frank. It'd have been really nice if our WS team had been 100% clean though. Well, it's not like Carl Everett was a major factor for us in '05. If Frank hadn't had that ankle injury, he wouldn't have seen that much playing time.

While Mitchell is a douche for (allegedly) leaking Byrd's HGH use during the ALCS, I'm happy to see that he appeared to show a little less bias here (Varitek, Nomar).

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 04:59 PM) Owens isn't that bad I'm not holding my breath, but I think that Owens has some serious potential. Even with his lack of power, he's a legitimate leadoff hitter if he can get his OBP up to the .360 range.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) The question is who will they get to play the OF in the future? It doesn't look like prices are going to come down anytime soon. Hopefully somebody on the right side of 30. They're going to have to develop young OFs, just like they did back in the mid/late '90s. I get the feeling that Kenny was blowing smoke up our arses when he said that Fields will not play LF next year. He might not have much of a choice now.

It's disappointing that the Sox still have those holes in the OF, but I'm not super-upset about them not paying $90 million for Hunter or $50+ million for good-but-not-great players like Rowand or Fukudome. I'm more concerned about how Contreras and Floyd will pitch next year.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 10:30 AM) Well, good thing we gave our manager a contract extension. You're right. Kenny should've re-hired Jerry "The Motivator" Manuel.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) Not that I'd expect the players to say as much, but is there anybody in this organization who can just be honest and acknowledge how completely devoid of talent -- not grind, work-ethic or 'edge' -- this franchise is? "Completely devoid of talent"? Uh, I don't think so. They may not be more than a .500 team, but their situation isn't even close to that dire talent-wise. It was pretty obvious to me that they just stopped trying after about June. Thome and Jenks' comments appear to support that observation.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:16 PM) Us not getting Hunter for that contract was such an overall win for the White Sox its not even funny. QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) Just so I understand, Are people b****ing Kenny didnt sign Hunter to the 90mil contract? Or are they b****ing that Kenny didnt get Hunter to sign a cheaper contract that would have been worthwhile? Because if the Sox signed Hunter for 90mil it would have been a disaster. For some reason I just dont see Hunter being able to stay healthy the majority of the next 5 years. Some of the few intelligent comments in this thread

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) I know what you are saying, but none of those guys were thought of as the special pitcher that Floyd was when he was drafted and coming up through the phillies system. Floyd may not have the mental tools to be the pitcher we all want him to be(which is debatable, he hasnt had a long career to prove it either way), but he has always had the physical tools to be a really good pitcher. The encouraging thing about Floyd (and Owens, for that matter) is that both finished strong this past season. I'm in no way suggesting that either of these guys are going to be elite players (or even high-tier players), but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they both had solid years in '08. I'm still not a fan of this trade, but I don't expect Floyd to absolutely suck nuts in '08 either.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) Eh I'm getting tired of people saying KW jumped the gun on dealing Garland. OC was the best impact player we could've gotten for Garland and filled a major hole. Yeah, and he created an even larger hole in the middle of the rotation. JMO, but Uribe at SS is a lesser evil than Floyd in the rotation. Was it worth paying $4.5 million for a utility player that can't hit? Not sure about that. Don't get me wrong, I like Cabrera a lot. But I don't see how adding him and losing Jon makes the Sox a better team. And Jon is going to be worth a lot more than Cabrera in June and July.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 07:01 AM) And the funny thing is that if Williams gets some of his big pieces and then still didn't have a SS, RP, and let Garland walkaway becaues he couldn't afford to keep him with the new big contracts he just aquired, people would b**** about that too. Its an imperfect process that is affected by the actions of 29 other organizations. I know Kenny Williams like to drink the blood of infants and all, but I can only imagine if your bosses held you all up to the same perfect standards... I basically agree, but I really think that he jumped the gun with Garland. Unless Jon completely sucks from April-June, he certainly would've gotten a lot more in return for him next summer. And while it's nice to have Cabrera and all, it SS wasn't really a glaring need, especially AFTER he picked up Uribe's option.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 01:03 PM) I've been hard on Kenny Williams for a while, but 18.1 million per year is just so f***ing ridiculous. Perhaps, but it's only a $36 million investment. Hunter was a $90 million investment. I would've been very happy to have Jones at $18 mil for two years.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) Flash tizzle is right. We all need to focus on the negative. This was a terrible team last year, KW is a joke to think we would compete. Its not important what it took to win a world series three years ago. It is important that we are the worst team in baseball. My hats off to greg775 for showing me the light. Don't forget that Kenny is a big stupid poopy head. Soxtalk wouldn't be Soxtalk without massive hyperbole and pessimism.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 11:38 AM) No one was giving him a long term deal worth more than $50-$60 million. So, Hunter got $90 million, but Jones couldn't even get $50-60 million. I realize that he had a down year at the plate, but geez. Not sure I agree with his plan, but it might not be a terrible decision if he can manage to stay away from the buffet table for the next two years.

So, is there any reason why Jones accepted a paltry two-year deal?

Hunter's on Rome right now and said that the lesser divisional competition in the AL West (vs. what he would've faced in Chicago) was a part of his decision to sign with the Angels. Perhaps that's a nice way of saying that he expects the Sox to suck again next year?

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) Not sure. I've come close. But in some situations I've changed my mind. We'll see. I just don't see trading a solid starting pitcher for a player who will be a free agent after one year. It seems to contradict Kenny's usual strategy and also seems fairly illogical. Not that I like the trade either, but said "solid starting pitcher" will also be a free agent after next season. The only illogical thing about it to me was doing it AFTER picking up Uribe's option.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) KW pretty much mentioned a couple of times that Fields won't be out in LF next year. Either Fields is dealt as a part of a monster blockbuster deal for Miggy Cabrera or Crede is dealt. Both won't be on the team next year. Sure, assuming that Kenny isn't blowing smoke up our arses. I have a really difficult time believing that he'll trade Fields. Dude has really good power, can play 3B, and costs nothing. And what's Crede worth on the FA market right now?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) While people are (rightfully) questioning Owens' hitting ability, its sometimes forgotten that Owens isn't just fast - he is also a very good basestealer, especially for being so new to the league. Rowand/Owens in CF/LF and Dye would be a pretty decent OF for the next few years. With Fields in LF this year, Owens could be eased in as a fourth OF. As long as they don't give Hunter money to Aaron, I'd be all for it.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 04:37 AM) hell he could have gotten Delmon Young and was sleeping during that move.. Yeah, he could've given up Danks and/or Fields for Young, but that would've been massively stupid. I'm not sure what other high-tier prospects/cheap young players Kenny had at his disposal to trade for Young.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) Because he has nowhere near the resume Hunter has? Granted, the free agent market always tends to allow for huge, undeserved contracts every year, so he may just get about what the Sox were offering Hunter, 5/$75 (but not from the Sox). I don't see Rowand getting $30 million less than Hunter. No way. 5/75 sounds a lot more reasonable and I don't think there's any way that he goes under 5/70. JMO.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 01:29 PM) In three or four years the market may be at $12 mil for an average starting CF. The overall MLB average is pushing 3 mil. Here are your AL CFers, rank them and decide if Rowand at $12 for the next five years isn't realistic basewd on projections and what other guys are signing for. Why would Rowand accept 12/60 when Hunter just got a $90 million deal?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 09:31 AM) Taking away the Coors field effect on his batting average last year, I'm not sure how he's that big of an offensive upgrade from Owens. He doesn't solve the "JO doesn't slug at all" problem, he has a couple more years of service time already, he'll probably steal 40 fewer bases than JO in a full season, he missed 1/2 of last season with injuries, and Owens already is taking more walks than him. His defense is obviously an upgrade from JO...but really how much talent can this team afford to give up for a defensive upgrade? My thinking is that Owens could platoon with Taveras in CF and Fields in LF (Fields could also spell Crede at 3B at times in this scenario)... and that Owens would have a chance of being a full-time starter in '09 (with Fields at 3rd). This, of course, assumes that Owens will turn out to be a major-league caliber hitter. I'm optimistic about his chances, but he's far from a lock at this point. If "September Owens" proves to be an anomaly and "July Owens" proves to be the long-term norm, Taveras would be a cheap three-year Plan B. I really don't care about Taveras' inability to drive the ball, as long as his OBP is respectable. I'd love for Kenny to get Rowand or Jones (assuming a reasonable price, which probably won't happen with the latter), but if it's not in the cards right now, we're fine for next year with Thome/Paulie/Dye/Fields/Cabrera/Crede in the middle of the lineup. (That said, Kenny would need to spend on another couple of bats in '09.) For '08, we need a defensive upgrade in CF/LF and another player who can steal bases proficiently would be a big help. And Taveras would do this cheaply for the next few years. Until he does something significant in the minors, Anderson isn't an option and I don't him to become one any time soon. The only problem, as you mentioned, is what it'll take to get Taveras. And I'm not sure that I have an answer for you.

I don't want any part of Crisp, unless Kenny can somehow get him cheap. I've always liked Taveras and think that he could be a legitimate leadoff hitter (or at least an inexpensive stop-gap). His OBP is a bit lower than I'd like, but I think that his base-stealing ability is enough of an asset to make up for it.