Pants Rowland

Although talking baseball is always fun, I think this whole discussion has gone off on a huge tangent. I may be giving Buehrle too much credit, but this all reeks of posturing. Kenny first calls Buehrle out for subtle disloyalty to his current organization. By doing so, he effectively pidgeonholes Buerhle as heading to St. Louis no matter what. It sounds like a scare tactic to any other teams that feel it would be a waste of their time to pursue Buehrle because he will likely end up in St. Louis. They may rather pursue some other lesser FA just so they don't miss out on everything. This cuts out some of the competition and creates a less perfect market for MB to maximize his earnings. Meanwhile, Buehrle wants to counteract the notion that he will sign with St. Louis for equal or lesser money than other teams will provide. He also alludes that it will be tough to play for his hometown due to all the distractions, effectively encouraging the other 28 teams to make an offer and create a competitive environment and bigger contract possibilities. It is classic cat and mouse negotiating through the news media. With that said, I love the idea of locking MB up and trading Freddy. I think Freddy is a big game pitcher but also a day game chump. You need to win 95 games or so to have a chance at 11 more victories. Give me 5 Freddy Garcias and I will show you a third place ball club with 75-85 victories. Give me 5 Mark Buerhles and you have a much better shot at the post season. I would take my chances in the FA market to solidify the bullpen and let B-Mac step into the rotation.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Apr 17, 2006 -> 02:02 PM) And he talks me into going as well. Good stuff. Edit: Just realized this is the Sox 7th home game, and this will be my 4th coming up from champaign. Woops. You guys ought to organize and either get big carpools or get some type of discount from the Illini Swallow bus lines. They don't do great business on weekdays anyway.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Apr 17, 2006 -> 01:20 PM) Trust me, the dumb asshole ALWAYS wins out in my case. Having over 10,000 posts on a message board proves it. I'll be there tonight. I knew you were a smart kid. The fact you go to U of I is a great indicator. Have fun tonight.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Apr 17, 2006 -> 01:02 PM) Well, I have been to the Cell the last two days, and am debating to make it 3. The Sox fan in me says "Go you dumb asshole" but the cheap college kid says, "Gas is like 9.00, dont go." Listen to the Sox fan in you, you dumb asshole. ;-) Seriously, you ought to go and tickets should be cheap due to the Discount Monday pricing.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 06:05 PM) raise your hand if you checked it just in case

QUOTE(White Sox Fan For Life @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) Actually I just needed some people's opinions on how they feel about curses in baseball. Also another reason I wrote this paper because my teacher is a Cub fan and she believes in curses in baseball so I am doing this just to get a rise out of her. One day she said that I didn't have a good enough information because I found a lot of people stating their opinions in the Sun Times, The Tribune, MLB.com's articles on curses and I use that against her and she still didn't except it. So I decided to post this on this little thread on soxtalk since there are so many people who use this site who are not from Chicago too and they can tell me their own opinions as well! I agree with your instructor (on your support mechanism, not curses). Stacking up opinions from a less than perfect sample is a very flawed method to support your argument. I would wager that more people on average buy into the curse thing. Even a well run public opinion poll (should include a broad, random sample of the population as a whole and include at least 30 participants to be valid) is probably going to work against you. If you really want to make a compelling argument, you need facts, not opinions. I think the facts are there that there are plenty of other teams that have experienced long championship droughts or overall futility with maybe one title sandwiched in between (see original Washington Senators for a great example on that front). The vocal nature of Cubs and Red Sox fans about curses just happened to draw attention to their futility when there have been plenty of other teams suffering along the way. The White Sox are a great example of a team that never mentioned curses yet endured a championship drought loner and more miserable than that the of the Red Sox.

By the way, I think polling people here or in other chats may not be the most sound manner of supporting your anti-curse argument. I agree that the world of major league baseball is excellent subject matter due to the number of teams that have had supposed curses attached to them. However, rather than talking to a bunch of idiots like us, you ought to do a thorough analysis of each team in modern baseball history to illustrate how spread out eras of success are for each individual team. The Cubs are one of many teams without a championship in decades. My guess is each franchise has had prolonged periods of futility and brief periods of success. The Braves, Yankees, and Cardinals are the exception in recent history and one of these three teams have more than one title in the past several decades. If I am not mistaken, the Braves have only one title in their entire Atlanta existence. I am not sure they won one in Milwaukee or way back when they were in Boston either. Anyway, you can do the research. Couple that with research in the field of psychology that deals with the idea of a placebo effect (or in this case a reverse placebo) and you should have a good basis for illustrating that talk of curses is unfounded no matter how lengthy the title drought.

QUOTE(White Sox Fan For Life @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) You said it best for me! Feel free to call me for help with the thesis. What type of class is this anyway? I hope not theology.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) You are too short sighted on this. 90 years of not winning. Not a losing streak. 90 freaking years of losing. The law of averages should have smacked these teams in the face 50 years ago. At risk of offending you (and others), I have to say belief in curses and luck is the mindset of a sucker. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it is my staunch atheism talking, but the only reason that curses or luck or god exist is because people are naive enough to believe in them. It gets to the point where it consumes their very existence such that the belief in the curse is what causes the futility, not the supposed curse itself. You mention defying the odds. Go take a look at the history of world series winners since the first series at the turn of the last century. I do not have it in front of me right now, but if I recall correctly, the Yankees have been in something like 35% of the WS and won nearly 25%. After the Yankees, I think the Cardinals, Boston and the NY Giants come next, but the drop off in championships is huge. After that the number if championships per franchise in really low. The White Sox are actually not doing to poorly with 3 championships. A lot of teams have only won one or two. The Marlins are a total aberration with their 2. Based on history and trends, the Cubs 2 WS titles are not as bad as you would think. The fact is the Yankees expect to win and there is pressure for them to win every year. They do not expect some supernatural force to screw up their chances. Thus, their mind is clear to perform. They know the blame will fall squarely on their shoulders if they do not hoist the trophy come October. Don't underestimate the power of suggestion with the Cubs. If you think something might happen, it probably will. Not because you are cursed, but because you lost your focus. You were thinking about how you were going to celebrate before the game was over. I am not a Marxist, but religion is truly the opiate of the people. We like to blame or credit fate and God and Satan for all that is good and bad in the world but we forget that great human beings typically rise to the occassion and write their own story. To get back to the topic at hand, I think Crash David said it best in Bull Durham..."If you believe you're playing well because you're getting laid, or because you're not getting laid, or because you wear women's underwear, then you ARE!" The fact is too many people (including some players) believe in curses and are reduced to futility as a result of their beliefs. That is what caused Ozzie to be such a successful influence over the team and led to a title. He did not believe in any of that bunk and refused to make excuses for failure. His attitude was don't make excuses. Play the game right, stay focused and the results will speak for themselves.

QUOTE(White Sox Fan For Life @ Apr 12, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) That was better well said than anything I could imagine! Thanks. BTW, I love your disco signature. It reminds me of disco demolition night.

QUOTE(My Dixie Normus @ Apr 12, 2006 -> 01:57 AM) I have John Rooney's game 4 final out call saved as an MP3 on my phone. Whenever my Cubbie fan pals start getting uppetty, I just hit a button and... "Jenks with a deep breath.... he oks the sign. From the stretch with a runner at second. Here is the 1-2 pitch to Palmero... a ground ball past Jenks up the middle of the infield. Uribe has it!! He throws.... OUT! OUT! A WHITE SOX WINNER AND A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!!! THE WHITE SOX HAVE WON THE WORLD SERIES AND THEY ARE MOBBING EACH OTHER ON THE FIELD!!!" Then I just look at them a little distracted "Huh? Sorry, what were you saying?" LOL! My favorite response so far. I think Cub fan indifference and dismisal of the White Sox existence for so long has been one of the major annoyances of White Sox nation (if we can call it that) over the years. The fact that they are talking smack now after 6 games shows how much the White Sox success has gotten to them. It also shows their immaturity and lack of knowledge. I suppose if your history of losing is as deep as the Cubs organization, you have to take what you can get. Overall, when I hear crap from Cubs fans about their "torrid" start I find a polite smile coupled with a "Congratulations. Wouldn't it be something if they kept it up all season and won the world series like the White Sox last year? What would be the odds of it going Red Sox, White Sox, Cubs three years in a row?" I say it with a straight face in such a manner that they are not sure if I am f***ing with them or not. The response is usually toned down and the topic changes fast. It don't mean a thing until they get the ring.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 12, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) Dont forget the whole other game they had to play the next night. They couldve won that one too. Bartman is the biggest patsy since Lee Harvey Oswald. I know it shouldn't bother me, but I still get pissed when I see that poor bastard mentioned in the newspaper (even if he is/was a Cubs fan). It is a clear reminder of how uneducated many supposed Cubs fans are from a baseball standpoint as well as the fact that the media will do anything to sensationalize a story to sell their product. The ball that hit Steve Bartman on the hands did not directly create a hit, rbi, error, or anything else. It was a strike, nothing more, nothing less. Further, Moises sucks as an outfielder and there is no guarantee he catches that ball. Moises was a dick for pointing at the fan and slamming his glove. Baker sucked for not recognizing his pitcher was spent. Finally, at least Moises' reaction was in the heat of the moment. Baker could have nipped the whole thing in the bud if he got up in front of the media after the game and laughed off any suggestion that the game changed because of that foul ball. Instead he said "Moises said he had it, I have to believe he would have had it" or something to that effect. That gave the story more legs than ever. Roll the whole thing into one pile of s*** and you don't have curses, you have a team full of losers and also rans who makes excuses for their shortcomings, starting with their leader, Dusty Baker.

QUOTE(White Sox Fan For Life @ Apr 12, 2006 -> 11:20 AM) In my thesis statment I mentioned the Cubs curse and the Red Sox curse, and how a curse is just another cover up for a team's failure/mistake. I mentioned the Cubs 2003 playoffs against the Marlins when the Cubs had six more outs of going to the World Series. But then the Bartman incident happened, but idiotice CUB FANS forget about the errors that the team made which had to caused them to loose the lead and the game. So than the next day you see the papers of the Sun Times like Curses just because the Marlins won 9-6, which at that time was the amount of time that the Cubs hadn't won a World Series in that long. It is all bulls***. Jack McDowell said it best in one of the World Series videos. IT was something to the effect that there was nothing cursed about the White Sox other than having a bunch of bad teams or teams not good enough to go all the way. I was kidding because Fox totally made up the whole Shoeless Joe curse in an attempt to create a story for a World Series without marquee teams to salivate over. I can't stand all the curse talk.

What about the "Curse of Shoeless Joe Jackson" that Fox talked about during last year's World Series? Doesn't that count as a curse in baseball?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Apr 11, 2006 -> 12:02 PM) I gotta go with D-Lee. I'd love nothing more than for Thome to jack 40, but it just seems like something that good wouldn't happen for the Sox. Something that good wouldn't happen to the Sox? You mean like going 11-1 in the post season and winning the World Series?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 02:26 PM) I don't nkow about that. Thornton seems best suited for our long inning role (especially as McCarthy starts getting used more and more as a 7th-8th inning swing man (who can and will go 2 innings, sometimes 3). Logan is probably that guy we'd go for just one batter. I don't see us doing that with Thornton. However both still need to prove themselves and Ozzie will give them opportunities to do so, until he's seen enough (whether good or bad) to make up his mind on whether they are major leaguers or not. If they aren't, I'd expect you'd see him tell Kenny and a move will eventually be made. For those of you that don't expect to see Logan or Thornton in games we are winning, well be prepared to be mad cause Ozzie is going to use them. Sure they are more likely to appear in a total blowout than a close game, but they'll be used in close games and I think Ozzie and Kenny are hoping at least one of them pans out and be a guy that can be counted on a bit. I remember everyone was asking for Ozzie's head in 2004 when he kept running Koch out there in save situations. It was painful to watch and cost the Sox a few games but it didn't take long to expose the huge hole and Billy K was dealt. My guess is he will be more careful here but he is still going to use Logan/Politte/Thorton in their respective roles to see if they can cut it. If not, Kenny will have to get busy on the phones. If Guillen gets too cute and goes to the reliable horses too often, the entire bullpen will be shot and the Sox won't have a chance in September/October anyway. I'd rather they expose the weaknesses now and see if they can right the ship before the entire bullpen is wasted. Assuming they are in the mix, I would guess the Sox will have one less Loogy in the pen by August 1.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 01:36 PM) Hawk wasn't much better. Great, sound like Singleton is winning the world's tallest midget award for broadcasting. Being better than Hawk is no great accomplishment.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 01:36 PM) Hopefully with some time his PBP won't be this bad. He just needs to get more fluid, stop pausing/repeating himself, and that's somethign that will come with practice. If you have been in baseball your whole life and can not describe the pitches as they hit the mitt then you f***ing suck. I am sure the pressure of being thee guy comes into play, but he has a LONG way to go before he is servicable. I also blame Farmer for putting him in this spot. If he is going to do that, then Farmer should get off the s***ter and cover color while Singleton is on PBP.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 01:30 PM) "Swing and a line drive into left center field, and that gets (pause) OVER THE FENCE!" -Singleton. I know everyone is tired of the debate regarding our poor radio announcers, but I was thinking the same thing. This is the first time I have heard Singleton do play by play and it is really tough. It appears he sometimes miscalls the balls and strikes and then adjusts the count later. I have the ESPN gamecast up and he has screwed this up on a couple occassions.

I saw my brother-in-law put ketchup on his grilled polish with onions the other day at the Cell. :headshake I think it is even worse to do it to a brat, but I agree that the Cell's polish is so good with a little mustard adn well grilled onions. I do not know how anyone could do anything more than that to it. At the end of the day, all these forms of sausage originated in or were inspired by Germany and Poland and were meant to be served with artisan mustard and pickled vegetables. Ketchup just does not fit, especially when you get a good quality one like they serve at Comiskullar (I do agree that the dumbed down kiddie style franks from the store need some more flavor and ketchup is not a terrible choice, however).

QUOTE(hi8is @ Apr 5, 2006 -> 05:17 PM) $20.00 * 40,000 tickets = $800,000 estimated cost of rings = $860,000 great way to get the money back jerry... good job. Math a bit off. I think someone forgot to add one more zero (432 * $20,000 = $8.6 million, not $860K).

YAWN! Can we PLEASE get this season started?! I am so tired of talking about predictions!

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 09:44 AM) The Royals last? I had them at 4. But what do i know. I agree. Have you seen their spring training record?! It is gonna be a great year in KC!

Not to be devil's advocate, but KW had to expect a pretty high price for anything from the A's. With the exception of the east coast love for NY and Boston, most baseball pundits see the Sox and A's as the top contenders for the AL title and possibly a World Series Championship. For KW to ask BB to help fix his team's biggest weakness, he had to expect something like the response he got. I admit Juan Cruz is not worthy of Brian Anderson at this point, but I doubt Beane wanted to even negotiate with the Sox.

QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 14, 2006 -> 04:21 PM) Just got back in, don't know if anyone was listening on the radio, Farmer brought up two interesting scenarios. Now if you listen to White Sox announcers (Farmer and Harrelson) you will often gain clues on who the Sox have on their radar. He (Farmer) made a point of mentioning this Luis Terrero guy, the fact he's out of options and can play all three OF positions. He also mentioned Luis Vizcaino is a perfect fit in the White Sox bullpen, how comfortable he was here and wondered aloud about how well he fits with the D-backs. Hmmm ... Interesting note. However, I remember Vizcaino needing to pitch frequently to be effective. Even as thin as the bullpen currently looks with Hermanson and Lefty 2 in question, I wonder how often Vizcaino would get work, and how effective he would be after sitting on the pine for 6 or 7 games.