Pants Rowland

QUOTE(JoeBatterz @ Sep 1, 2006 -> 01:12 PM) I hope the conspiracy continues and Dusty Baker is managing both the Twins and Tigers before the weekend is over.

QUOTE(beautox @ Aug 30, 2006 -> 10:40 AM) Simply Murder! vs. Left: .360 Damn! What would you give up to get either of these? Broadway + _______ & maybe _________? Vazquez & maybe Garcia

QUOTE(cgaudin @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 05:48 PM) IMO it's either Dye or Morneau with Ortiz a close third. I'm not drinking that Jeter kool-aid ESPN is trying to push on everyone. There are other players having much better MVP numbers than Jeter. I think whichever reaches the playoffs will swing the vote in their favor. I love JD, but Morneau has shouldered a bigger load for the Twins. The Sox offense has shared the production over 4 guys, Thome, Konerko, Dye, and Crede. Morneau is in the driver's seat right now, but since the Sox will go to the playoffs that leaves the Twins staying home. It's likely still Ortiz who gets the nod. I can live with Morneau or even Mauer getting the nod over JD but will vomit in the direction of Bristol, CT if a member of the Jeter/Manny/Ortiz triumverate gets the nod again this year. I also think if JD stays in the zone he has been for some time that he can make it an easier decision. He is really locked in right now and appears to be improving with every at-bat.

I have watched most of the games this year and feel Jermaine Dye is the White Sox 2006 MVP. He plays a solid right field, hits for average and power, and is a genuine pleasure to have as a representative of the White Sox. His numbers are as follows: Slugging %age of .649 - 1st 38 Home Runs - 3rd OPS of 1.041 - 3rd Batting Average of .326 - Tied for 6th RBI total of 102 - Tied for 6th OBP of .391 - 9th 83 runs - Tied for 12th 142 hits - Tied for 20th 47 Walks - Tied for 29th I know there are deserving players every year that get lost in the Big Papi/Manny/A-Rod lovefest, but I think Jermaine's total are MVP-worthy. I look at some of the other players out there and think Jermaine might be the best choice ahead of Mauer, Jeter, Ortiz, Morneau, and Manny. Who do you think is more deserving than Dye and why?

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 03:02 PM) we should be #2 behind the Twins. Tigers should be #3, Yankes 4, Mets 5. The Red Sox appear to be dead in the water right now. IMO the NL has only 1 good team and thats the Mets. The AL has the Tigers, Sox, Twins, Yankees, Red Sox, A's, and Angels I am not sure you should put the A's or Angels in the top tier just yet.

QUOTE(Keystone @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 05:52 PM) they should start black jack mcdowell in game one. He is probably more likely to sing the national anthem with his band.

QUOTE(chiguy79 @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 04:51 PM) how about they keep winning and close the gap with the tigers by winning at least 7 out of these next 10! That should help sell tickets, this is a huge road trip! I like your math best.

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) I heard Hawk say it was a sell out today too. 37,839 is the number I saw in the box score. Anyone know what the Sox need to average over the final remaining home games to reach 3 million? What about to break the old attendance record set in the early 90's?

If Buerhle does not round into form by season's end I might even stack it like this 1. Contreras 2. Garland 3. Buerhle 4. Richard Dotson 5. Brit Burns

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 16, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) I had my own little man-crush from that year, too I'll do you one better. I'll also give you their stats. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1988.shtml I have tried so hard to forget that team but your link brought everything back. I fear waking up in a cold sweat over the next few nights. Melido Perez was the ace, Ozzie Guillen was the lone All Star representative, and his double play partner was the forgettable Freddie Manrique. Did you see the salaries? Harold was the top earner at $1MM. I'll bet they were still paying off Julio Cruz at that point. I remember the debacle and bitterness from 1995 through 1999 but for me there was no worse time in the 25 years I have followed this club than the stretch from 1986 through 1989. The only good thing about those years was that they led to really low expectations for the 1990 team that played the last year in the old park. Oakland was too experienced (and juiced) to be overtaken but it was still the most fun and promising season for me other than last year.

QUOTE(earthshiner @ Aug 16, 2006 -> 02:16 AM) Cathchers: Charles Johnson Mark Johnson Brook Fordyce Josh Paul? 1B: Paul Konerko Frank Thomas 2B: Ray Durham Tony Grafinino SS: Jose Valintin 3B: Greg Norton Herb Perry Joe Crede LF: Carlos Lee CF: Chris Singleton Jeff Abbott RF: Magglio Ordonez DH: Harold Baines SP: James Baldwin Eldred Jon Garland Kip Wells Jim Parque Sirotka RP: Sean Lowe Bob Howry Keith Foulke Kelly Wunsch Mark Buerhle Lorenzo Barcello guess I am not fair weathered Okay, All-Weather-Fan. Now give me the 1988 White Sox starting nine, the rotation and the closer.

So was last night classified as a sellout? I saw in the box score the attendance was 35,690. That sounds far from a sellout but I thought Hawk said it was. He also said tonight was sold out. I am confused.

I was at the Crede game last year. You know, the one where he hit the walk-off home run against the Indians and Farmer told everyone to "get off the ledge". Our seats were about 20 rows up in relatively straighaway left field. We got there early and the friend with me asked if I ever caught a ball. Neither of us had although we had a few close calls. We both agreed it would be tough for us to get one that night being in the 20th row in left. Anyway, the game starts and wouldn't you know it, after several innings Crede hits one right at the seat in front of me. The seat was empty so I reach down, it hits me in the palm, and drops down in the seat. Before anyone could get to me, I grab it and I am a hero in my area for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, it was a fantastic game. Cleveland ties it, Uribe makes that phenomenal play in the hole to keep the Tribe from closing the gap in the division further and up steps JOE CREDE in the the 10th to end it. As noted, I was 20 rows up so his first shot was a bomb. What was amazing is his second shot also was lost way up in the crowd. This time, rather than being in front of me, it was about 4 or 5 seats to my right. I dove for it but only came away with a bruise that time. If you put the Sox Pride DVD on pause and advance the frames slowly, you can see my friend and I scrambling for the ball as it lands in the stands. Probably one of the most memorable regular season games I have ever attended for so many reasons. P.S.: I kept the ball. I do not recall any kids being around me but I am not sure I would have given it away anyway.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 15, 2006 -> 10:57 AM) FYI, just checked ticketmaster for the remaining KC games. For 2 seats together... Tuesday: none available Wednesday: none available Thursday: Best is 542, Row 13 So I'd say Tue and Wed are sellouts, and Thursday has a shot. If you check tonight for one ticket, there are still a lot of good seats available. I found one in row 2 of section 538 as well as one in row 18 of section 102. My guess is Wednesday and definitely Thursday are the same. If you are thinking of going and trying to help the WS reach 3MM this season, you and your friends may be better served buying individual tickets in the same general area and see if you can swap with your neighbors at the game. Better yet just watch the game and hang out in the concourses if you want to talk. I may even go solo since I have been enjoying the play so much lately.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 02:13 PM) The thing I hate the most are the people (usually drunk) that never sit down, constantly talk loud, or walk up and down the aisle thirty times a game. I do not mind the talking. I mean there are only so many things I can complain about before I become an intolerant curmudgeon. However, I do agree that the unnecessary standing (frequently occurs on those routine fly balls, too) and the constant trips to and from the seats are pretty annoying as well. At the end of the day, however, they are all helping to pay the salaries so I just try to block it out.

My favorite annoyance at games is the constant cheering of routine fly balls as if they are all on the way out of the park. Maybe I need to be tolerant of the casual fan, but pay attention to the trajectory of the ball gosh dangit!

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 01:49 PM) The definition of a balk makes this a balkable move. Umpires just don't call it. I think they meant fake to third, throw to first. If I am not mistaken (I have not looked up the balk rule) if you step toward first initially, then you must throw there. So you would be right with your statement. However, you can fake to third and then spin toward first but make no throw. I do not believe that is a balk.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Oh come on. You have way too much hate going on there. Again, it's on the scoreboard for every game opening... it's RECOGNIZABLE (you said it yourself), that's why it was chosen #1. NOT because he was a RED SOX. It has nothing to do with it... except for someone who can't get off the east coast conspiracy. I ain't no playa hata and I think of Fisk as a White Sox player since I grew up with him in pale hose. I also do not think it is a conspiracy by the east coast media. I just think it is typical the way their minds work. They gravitate toward certain players and teams all the time when talking about greatness. Some of it is earned but some of it is just, in the words of Hawk, "BS!" I do not really care what ESPN says. It is obvious they do not even know they are doing it but they can't help themselves. Like New Yorkers, they are convinced there is one city in America and the sun revolves around it. In this case, they have two cities so I have to give them some credit. The fact is the Fisk play was a lot of fun and brings back a lot of good memories from my youth. It deserves to be one of the top three web gems for the White Sox. I will even place it second ahead of Iguchi since I do not care. However, it was not an all out sprint followed by diving into the stands of an opposing team's ballpark, catching the ball, holding onto it and your clothes, and shortly thereafter making another spectacular play and winning the World Series. There is no comparison. Now that I have settled this, we should probably close the thread.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) Wow, you really don't like Thome. That's not gonna make you many friends around here. I'll be his/her friend.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) oh good grief. OF COURSE any catcher can do that, but how often has it happened? It's one of the best plays you'll ever see, if not spectacular. And can it with the "red sox" comments, please. Let it be what it is, a great WHITE SOX play. It was a great White Sox play and brings back great memories every time I see it on the pregame but it does not deserve to top Uribe's catch in the stands to help ice a championship.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 09:57 AM) That's not cool. #2 and #3 are both easily better than #1. It's not even comparable. I would say that every single catcher in baseball can do what Fisk did, it was just a good throw by the OFer and a bad decision to send both runners. It was logical for ESPN to pick a former Red Sox player making a rare yet somewhat nonspectacular play and have it top two remarkable athletic feats, one of which helped directly result in a championship.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 03:45 PM) The White Sox may be unbalanced as far as having Anderson and Uribe at the bottom of the order, but they still lead the league in runs scored. The problem is the pitching. The Sox have gone 5-26 in games in which they have scored 3 or fewer runs. While a good record in that situation is nearly impossible, only 5 wins is the alarming part. They also have lost 11 games in which they have scored 6 or more runs. Brian Anderson and Juan Uribe, although they have been less than stellar at the plate, are not the reason the White Sox are miles behind Detroit and now in 3rd place in the Central. The blame goes to the pitchers. Buerhle, Garcia, Garland for a while, Vazquez, Politte. If these guys gave you what the White Sox had projected for them, Detroit would be looking up at the White Sox right now. No question about it. You can have the greatest offense in the world, but if your pitching is poor, you may have a decent record, but you won't be hoisting any trophies in October. KW will learn something from this season, no matter what happens, and I think you will see him aggressively improve his pitching staff this winter. Its not going to be sign 8 minor league free agents and hope one works out again. I can not argue with you here, each of the starters other than Contrerass have had long stretches of brutality. I just believe the nuances of the game all have an impact. The argument many people make are Freddy and Buerhle are tired or injured. I think a weak bullpen at the beginning of the season and average defense throughout the season are contributing factors. Guillen stopped trusting the bullpen early and kept the starters in longer. The defense gave the other team a few more outs to work with and there are that many more pitches to throw. I do think it started to snowball and contributed to the performances we are seeing out of the starters now. Guillen definitely needs to get out of his habits and start bringing relief in the 6th or to start the 7th rather than letting his starters allow a few baserunners in the 7th before he turns it over to the pen.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) That's all fun and cute and heartwarming, but if this years pitching staff were as good as last years, we'd be the team with the record the Tigers have. Hell, maybe better than that. If this pitching staff were HALF as good as last years, we'd be in shape to win 105 games. The problem with this team starts and ends with the pitching staff, and the reason people want a change in LF and Brian in CF everyday is simply because it makes our defense A LOT better, doesn't hurt the offense, and the better defense in the long run would help the pitching staff gives up a few less runs and maybe get us the few more wins we need to make the playoffs. I do not dispute the fact the pitching has been beyond disappointing. However, the overall team defense has been a disappointment in its own right. That does affect the pitching staff over the course of a season. Based on the latter part of your post, you agree with the fact that this team needs better defense to save a few more runs. I threw out the example of Overbay as an alternative to Thome, but all other things being equal, somewhere between Mackowiak, Ozuna, Gload and Cintron, this year's version of Group Four is lacking. We have no late inning defensive replacements. That becomes a huge problem when our best outfielder is frequently pinch hit for late in the game.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 03:05 PM) While the defense has been poorer this year than last, Rowand is not an upgrade defensively from Anderson, and Overbay would not play first base enough to make a difference. You don't improve the defense with acquiring Overbay and retaining Rowand, in fact it even goes down a bit. Offensively, maybe at the bottom of your order you get a little improvement, but not enough to offset the huge loss of not having Thome in the lineup. Thome obviously has more homers than Overbay. In fact he has more than Overbay and Rowand combined. He also gets on base a ton more than either do. Thome's contribution to the White Sox can also be seen in Jermaine Dye's numbers, and maybe even Crede's and AJs. He alone changed this team from a very average offensive team with power, to a powerhouse line-up, and perhaps the best offense in baseball even when they have a CF who hasn't hit sour apples, and a lead-off man that has looked lost for a good portion of the season. The White Sox had Konerko, Thomas, Ordonez, and Lee all in a row from 2000-2004 and could not win a title. I am not disputing the impact Thome has had on the lineup from Iguchi to Crede/Pierzynski. I also agree that Anderson is/will be a better center fielder than Rowand. I am talking about balance. I will take a little less defense out of Rowand coupled with his bat in the 7 or 8 hole versus Anderson's defense coupled with his big looping swing and .205 average. Konerko can not DH once in a while because the choices for a backup at 1st base are Gload, Mackowiak and Thome. Gload is a pariah on this board 99% of the time, Mackowiak has played only a handful of games at first, and Thome is too fragile and valuable to risk injury in the field. The Sox have no legitimate backup defense in the outfield no matter how good Mack and Pablo are when they are on a hot streak. The 2005 White Sox won the title not because of monster production in the middle of the lineup. The did it through pitching, defense, and teamwork. Thome can hit 60 home runs and have 185 RBI but he can be streaky, strikes out a lot, and most importantly can not play defense. If you can eliminate the need for Gload, you can save a lot of the runs that Mackowiak surrendered with his rotten glove in the 7-9 innings this year. Anderson could still be on this team in Mackowiak's current roll of part time starter. You pick your spots and allow the regulars to rest while Anderson can develop against some of the less stingy arms in the league. Meanwhile, he can always come in late to help preserve a lead. It is all hindsight, but as much as the starting pitchers and Ozzie deserve some blame for the team struggles, so does the defense for not backing them up. Just remember, the Yankees line-up is stacked and has not won a world series since the days of Brosius, O'Neil, Williams, and Martinez.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 01:34 PM) I understand your arguments, but frankly, all things considered, I think you're wrong here. Toronto is paying less for Overbay this year than we are paying for Thome, correct. Toronto is paying $2.5 million for Overbay this year. However, this was, IIRC, his first arbitration year. Next year, that number is probably going to double, to the $4-$5 million level. Which means, given the amount of Cash the White Sox got from the Phillies, he will only be a couple million cheaper than what we have Thome for ($14 million a season for 3 years, with the phillies chipping in over $20 million, IIRC). The difference in production between the two, IMO, is clearly worth an extra $7-8 million over 3 years. There's also the value of having a gigantic, SCARY bat in your lineup, the kind of guy that teams have to game plan around, which is also not shown in the stats. It is also worth noting that in that scenario, we'd also still be paying for Rowand, which this year, would eat up another $3.2 million of the difference, and I think more next year. So in other words, you'd be paying basically teh same amount for Overbay and Rowand that you are for Thome and Anderson. And sadly, ARow's offensive stats are still nothing to write home about either this year. .258 BA, 12 home runs, actually a little worse than he was last year in BA, little better in power. Thanks. I forgot that Philly picked up a good chunk of Thome's contract. I think Thome's overall numbers are going to be more impressive than Overbay at the end of the season. However, I have watched Overbay in the past and seen how he has improved each year. His power numbers are decent. He plays a pretty good first base. He is also left handed but makes contact more consistently than Thome. To me he seems more of a pure hitter than big Jim. He also seems to spread his productivity out very nicely over the course of the season. Without going overboard, he has impressed me in the past and from what I have seen in limited games against the Sox, has done very well in his first AL season. Let's throw out Thome versus Overbay comparisons, though. My bigger point was not whether one was better than the other. I was thinking more about residuals and team balance. Thome's presence improves the lineup from 2 through 7 considerably. He is also a great character guy to have in the clubhouse. Finally, individually he is a monster at the plate. On the down side, his presence in the lineup has thrown the balance way off at the bottom of the order. Anderson's inexperience has not only hurt his spot in the lineup, but it probably has also taken it's toll on the quality pitches seen by Uribe and Podsednik. Further, too many boppers in a White Sox lineup has turned the bottom half of the order into a bunch of spectators and mimics. They are either waiting for the big guys to knock one to the concourse, or are trying to join the party and swinging for the fences themselves. Now, if you have an Overbay, you trade a fair amount in slugging percentage (versus Thome) for more singles and doubles. However, he is still lefthanded and you also add versatility by having a guy that can play first base to give Paulie a bit of a rest. Meanwhile, I do not know about Overbay's character but Rowand's is unquestioned. You keep the three stooges together and let them take Anderson under their wing. Chemistry may be overrated, but Rowand personified the 2005 White Sox in many ways, even if he was not a superstar. Finally, by keeping Rowand and picking up Overbay, you can free up a valuable roster spot as Ross Glaod is no longer needed. You can still acquire Mackowiak and Cintron but then find a speedy defensive replacement outfielder that is a little more reliable for a pinch hit situation than Willie Harris was in 2005. So effectively, you trade Gload for Overbay rather than Rowand for Thome and may never have to use Ozuna in LF. You also probably do not have to give up nearly as much talent on the prospect side. In return you have a more versatile team with less offensive pop but a lot more balance and far better outfield defense. Despite his shortcomings, I would still take Rowand's offensive numbers over Anderson, especially considering BA's strikeout totals. I also like the idea of BA being a late inning replacement for Podsednik. Guillen may frustrate us with his decisions sometimes but he has had a knack in the past for setting guys up to succeed. He has not had that luxury with Anderson this year. As a result, not only has the bottom of the order been brutal but so has the defense at times. A late inning rally when the Sox are down a run or two results in a Mackowiak pinch hit situation rather than taking your chances with Rowand had he not been traded. Now, Mack may or may not get the hit and then you are stuck with him in center field for 2 or 3 innings. Meanwhile, any time your outfield needs a rest you have Mackowiak in center or Ozuna in left rather than Anderson being the backup. The result has been a lot of balls finding holes rather than Rowand's or Anderson's glove. If you have a Brian Anderson available, you would have a very solid late-inning outfield defense with BA in left, A-Row in center and JD in right. That is solid from both a range/read standpoint but also improves the White Sox chances at throwing a runner out at home every once in a while. I can not remember one outfield assist this year. I know the ultimate argument will be that the 2006 White Sox are struggling because their pitching has been inconsistent to poor. I agree with that to a point. However, good pitching is very much bolstered by good defense. That is not just measurable in routine plays but also highlights. If errors give a team 4 outs an inning, then highlight plays give them 2 outs. That eases stress on the pitching staff and frustrates the opponent to the point of pressing. That ends my argument of how Lyle Overbay could have saved the Sox this season. If only KW had called me.