Lillian

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 28, 2015 -> 06:08 AM) for me, the tweets as a source of info, whether it is a credible source, that is another story,... i just like to read... i really will wait until something concrete comes out. i think the sox do need a of'er with power. Do they ever!!! Melky, Eaton and Avi would be lucky to hit a total of 40, between the 3 of them. The front office can't possibly allow the season to begin with this roster. They will surely add someone. Let's just hope that they get the right one, and that he doesn't flop. It's not only the power shortage. How many guys would you expect to have OBP's of .350 or higher? I count Abreu, Eaton and maybe Cabrera. So, they have two legitimate power hitters in Abreu and Frazier, and two good OBP hitters in Abreu and Eaton. If they plan to compete this year, I'm sure that they know they are short at the very least, one more productive bat. But then, we too, all know that. The suspense seems only to be exceeded by the boredom. Come on. Do something, already!!!

I'm probably older than almost everyone on this forum, so please understand that I have a perspective on this topic of civility, which is shaped by having lived most of my adult life, before the Internet. In those days, people would generally not speak to each other the way anonymous bloggers do. It's just a matter of being courteous. When someone writes something, they don't necessarily expect everyone to agree with them. However, how hard is it to say something like; "You make a good point, however....." If what is written is not exactly clear, wouldn't it be better to simply ask for a clarification? What is so difficult about just asking someone to clarify their position? You almost never read a post that begins with something like this: "I'm a little unclear as to what you are asserting. Would you please clarify it?" I've advocated for more civility in prior posts, and most of the members here do treat others respectfully. And again, the bloggers here are Saints, compared to some of the nasty people, who post on the Net. However, at this time of year, one would like to see more fellowship among Sox fans. So, that said, Happy Holidays, and Go Sox!!!!

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 27, 2015 -> 10:52 PM) Your post didnt make any sense. Your talking about them not being the answer then signing them. Why throw resources in the toilet if your not sold on them? I dont see how standing pat in the outfield is a good thing. Too many issues with Garcia to fix that it's probably extremely likely you'll be looking for his replacement during the deadline assuming your still in the race. I think that I understood the post. I believe that he is trying to say the we could use a short term upgrade in the outfield, but that Hahn is reluctant to make the kind of long term commitment, for which the players are asking. Perhaps he could have written it more clearly, but it didn't deserve to be characterized as; "didn't make any sense". It seems as though you may have just demonstrated his point, about being severely criticized when posting on this site. It is true that some of us are too quick to try to belittle other posters. It would be so nice to see fellow Sox fans being a bit more civil toward one another. We should note that the posters on this forum are still much more polite than most bloggers on the Internet. Some of the stuff you see is just hard to comprehend. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

I just don't relish the idea of the Tigers getting Cespedes or Upton. That lineup would be really scary, if VMart comes back healthy: Iglesias Kinsler M. Cabrera V. Martinez Cespedes/Upton J. D. Martinez Castellanos Maybin McCann They could have 4 guys, 3 through 6, in the lineup, each drive in around 100 runs. The Sox lineup without that big bat, would look pretty weak, by comparison. Just get past Abreu and Frazier, and the opposition could breeze through the rest of the line up. However, put Cespedes or Upton in the Sox lineup, especially if the Tigers don't add a big bat, and the picture is entirely different.

That article from MLBTradeRumors looks like something we posters here wrote. The points made are all things we've covered, ad nauseam.

Very impressive, "BlackSox". You certainly seem to know a lot about other organizations. Your research is appreciated, as it adds valuable insight. Thanks

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 26, 2015 -> 06:15 AM) That's all fine and good, but we haven't had much luck since the Dunn signing pulling off this feat, or you can go back to Rios and Peavy. Jake might have had the most disappointing career overall with the Sox, but ironically he fetched us the most talent back of anyone. Actually, when they announced their resigning him, it seemed a bit nuts but it worked out fine. Just looking at everyone we brought in last year, the only player we could currently trade without eating any salary would be Robertson. This kind of "hoarding talent" type of strategy would work better for a rebuilding team with all their minor league talent at least 2-3 seasons away from being ready. With the White Sox, anything you get for Frazier, Lawrie, Cabrera is likely to be Avi Garcia type talent with flaws...but the hardest problem to resolve is selling "high" on players who are performing well when the team's contending. See Shark last July after the Blue Jays series. In the past, we held onto Crede and Jenks too long, not to mention Quentin, Ramirez, Floyd, Danks, Crain, Humber, Thornton. Also, you're looking at budgetary constraints...playing time issues...just look at all the surplus talent the Dodgers acquired the last 2-3 years and what they have to show for it all now. And that's a team spending 2.5x what the White Sox do. As it is, we're going to be 15-20% over projected budget adding one of the Big 3 (theoretically). Finally, it would make more sense to stockpile young, cost-controlled talent than veterans with a negative WAR roi unless you can hit on the perfect Tier Three veterans and flip them like Epstein has done 2-3 times in rebuilding the Cubs. Well, perhaps the Sox are not the right organization to do it, but some team may try to exploit this circumstance by "hoarding talent," as you put it.

Given the dearth of talent that will be available over the next two free agent classes, why not sign several players, with the idea that they could be trade pieces, to contending teams, desperate for key players, in 2017 and 2018? Sure the payroll would sky rocket this year, but the chances to win go way up, and then the front office could dump payroll and acquire top prospects, the following two years. They would be holding a lot of supply into a very limited market, with the normal demand bidding up the price for players. Trades will necessarily become the only viable means of acquiring players, which means that teams, which want to contend will have to be willing to give up prospects. Go ahead Mr. Reinsdorf, knock yourself out. Sign two outfielders, a right handed starting pitcher, and maybe even a SS. Back load the contracts as much as possible. Have a big 80TH birthday bash, and then let Hahn open the "store" for business, after the World Series. Oh, and La Roche. What to do with him? Who cares?

If Gordon wants $100 million on a 5 year contract, I hope that the Sox are able to nudge KC to spend enough to get him to stay there, and Hahn moves on to someone else. We have all acknowledged that KC is going to be in a financial bind, with so many of their core players entering free agency. The Sox window appears to be 2 years. Obligating themselves to a 5 year deal at that kind of money, for a guy his age, doesn't seem consistent with the rest of their moves.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 25, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Lillian, were most certainly on the same page. As long as Ethier does not cost top prospects, the prospects used to acquire Ethier could be replaced with the three picks in the first two rounds in June's draft. I think I said this in a previous post but one hangup I see is that the Dodgers must be willing to take one of Avi/Melky or LaRoche(ya,right) in the trade. I actually like Melky's bat but one idea could be a trade based around Ethier for Melky. Ethier goes to RF and since the Sox seem like they are willing to give Avi more time to develop they could move him to LF where he shouldn't be as much of a defensive liability. Melky's switch hitting bat could be enticing to the Dodgers as well as Melky's lower salary. As I've said before, I'm just not counting on the Sox signing a FA so I'm just exploring other potential opportunities since the market is flooded with outfielders. Do you think that the Dodgers would really want an outfielder, with a contract obligation, back in a trade? I doubt that they would take La Roche, and I hate to sell low on Avi. He has tremendous upside, and is young enough to justify exercising some patience with him. He also has an option to be able to go to AAA. I'd rather just keep Melky, as I like his switch hitting bat, especially at DH. Under this scenario, in which they are only obligated to 2 expensive years of Ethier, there might still be money to acquire another left fielder. Any ideas? I do think that Hahn will have to find another home for La Roche.

The comparison between a trade for Ethier and a free agent contract for Gordon, is an interesting one. If they sign Gordon, they lose a draft pick. If they could trade a lesser Minor Leaguer for Ethier, and assume the whole contract, they probably have a more favorable situation. Ethier is only owed two more years, through age 35, of guaranteed big money ($17.5 million a year). The 3RD year has a buy out provision, which would cost $2.5 Million. There is a vesting option, which complicates it a little. He might fit better, batting between Abreu and Frazier, than would Gordon. Of course, there is the switch to the American League factor??? By contrast, signing Gordon to a 5 year deal, at that same annual salary, or more, would take him to age 37. Ethier hits right handed pitching better than Gordon, and while not good vs. LHP, could platoon, the few times the Sox face a lefty. Hey, there aren't many more of them in the League, since most of them are on our starting staff. Both of these guys will likely be at a point where they could use a day off, once in a while, at their age. The other big plus is that Ethier is a right fielder, which the Sox need more than they need a player at Gordon's position. Although I don't know how good of a defensive right fielder he'd be, over the next two years, at ages 34 and 35. Therefore, if it takes a 5 year contract at $18 million per year, or more to sign Gordon, and Ethier can be acquired without giving up a top prospect, I'd prefer a trade with the Dodgers. If they can get Gordon on a 4 year deal, at that rate, and a trade for Ethier would require giving up a top prospect, or two, then I'd prefer Gordon.

Even tongue in cheek, talk of acquiring two of the 3 big F.A. outfielders is just silly. It's not just that ownership would not spend that kind of money, it isn't even the best use of the money, if they were willing and able to spend it. The outfield will be fine with the addition of one of them, thank you. Another pitcher would be a higher remaining priority, though I doubt that they would pursue one.

Gordon could become a DH, for the final year or two of a 5 year deal, when he is likely to slow down. Knowing the Sox and their organization, they will probably be in a position where they could use one, in 3 years.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 11:31 AM) Sanchez's arm is fine as a SS sub. With Saladino and Lawrie's abilities to switch over and play third that would give Sanchez time to fill in for any one of Lawrie, Frazier or Saladino. I understood that Carlos' arm does not play well, at short. Perhaps, I missed something. Where have you seen scouting reports that suggest that he has the arm to play short? Watching him, last season, it didn't appear to me, as though he would be able to make that throw from the hole.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) Sanchez has the arm for like 1 position in the infield.. 2b. That is actually a good point. I'd prefer to use L. Garcia as a bench player. He is also a switch hitter, and can play SS, 2ND and CF. As is the case with Avi, I would rather see Sanchez playing everyday at AAA, than sitting on the bench. After all, he is even younger than Avi. With Lawrie at 2ND, Carlos is not going to get very much playing time.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 11:10 AM) There's no reason to develop Avi. He is what he is. Take advantage of the few strengths he has and get whatever value you can out of him. Have him on as 5th of and platoon partner does that, and he still gets plenty of at bats. I don't think that the front office has given up on Avi yet, and they would be justified in holding out a little more hope. After all, last year was his first full year in the Big Leagues. He was actually pretty good, for the first two months of the season. Given his low trade value, I think that they'll exercise some patience. However, if you're right about it not being realistic to count on any significant production from him, at this point, he would be better served playing everyday at AAA, than taking up a roster spot on the Major League team, just to face a few lefties.

It is pretty unlikely that they will keep Avi on the Major League club, just to face LHP, as a platoon with La Roche. Management would more likely send him to AAA, where he can get playing time. If they only acquire one of the big 3 outfielders, Shuck probably stays, as the 4TH.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) If LaRoche is in the middle of the order, it means he is back to the guy who the Sox thought they signed. We hope!!

Hey "Bear Brian", to your point: I remember that it was about the time that the Sox were desperate for a decent bat, to hit behind Abreu, that they moved Melky to the middle of the order, and he took off. He is a good run producer, and although he won't hit many homers, he could indeed bat between Jose and Frazier, if the Sox acquire Gordon and put his good OBP in the 2 hole. In any case, I will be very disappointed if the Sox start the season with La Roche in the middle of the order. I would be an advocate for your position, if he were the only other LH bat, besides Melky. I'd rather see them have 6 right handed hitters in a row, than put La Roche in the middle of that lineup. La Roche has to be in the bottom third of the lineup, if at all.

QUOTE (bear_brian @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) In Gordon's career he has an OPS of .653 and a career BA of .226 hitting 4th. He is not a cleanup hitter. Sometimes the feeling that you HAVE to have a balanced lineup just does not work. I will again go back to the 2005 Sox, where the majority of that lineup was RH. Unless we trade for CarGo (doubtful), I think Cespedes is the best alternative, since he can play RF and has legitimate power. That does leave Melky in LF (not good) but moves Avi out. I believe they also will keep LaRoche and hope for a bounceback - there is your LH bat. Yes, I like Melky's LH bat in the middle of the lineup, but who would bat second. How about switching Gordon and Melky, if the Sox acquire him? I'm going to look up Gordon's at bats as a clean up hitter. I really didn't realize that he ever hit much in that spot. Thanks. And hey, I'm not the only one "obsessed" with balance in the lineup. Hahn acquired La Roche, for that reason, and has openly talked about wanting to find a left handed bat. Those of us who feel that it's important may be entirely misguided, however it seems to be a common perception, within the organization.

Hahn already tipped his intentions to rid the roster of La Roche. A willingness to eat 3/4 of his remaining contract is a pretty strong indication that they want him gone. It also appears that they are not ready to give up on Avi. If they can clear the DH spot for Melky, then it makes sense that they would acquire Gordon. He would take Melky's place in LF and Avi would stay in RF. It helps the lineup, as Melky is probably the best 2 hole hitter on the roster. But if he hits second, and La Roche is gone, they have no LH bats to break up the 3 through 7 hitters. Gordon provides that, and balances the line up. He also adds the OBP that Cespedes doesn't, and will require fewer years and less money than Upton, or Cespedes. I see the lineup vs. RHP like this: CF Eaton DH Melky 1B Abreu LF Gordon 3B Frazier 2B Lawrie RF Avi C Avila SS Saladino Like it, or not, I think that's what is coming.

After reading that first paragraph, I concluded that this guy is even more delusional than I am.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) Lillian: I have found in my experience that there are very few "casual" baseball fans in Chicago. The vast majority are either Cub fans or Sox fans, period. No in between and very few (although I actually do know a handful) root for both. If my assumption (based on a lot of years is true) than your premise doesn't really apply. Mark I think that is probably true, but once again that is not what I'm saying. I am talking about a general increasing interest in the city's baseball, which is bound to increase interest and attendance on both sides of town, even if disproportionately on the North Side. Please forget about persuading people to switch allegiances. I understand that we are all accustomed to thinking about being a baseball fan, from our passionate perspective. Think about a young person who has no allegiance and no prior interest in baseball. Now, they are curious to experience what all of the excitement is about, in Chicago. If both teams are playing well, and in their respective races, some of these new fans could certainly be Sox fans. To that person, they might look at any number of seemingly irrelevant factors in choosing their team. Maybe their cousin roots for the Sox, or maybe they like the idea of being able to get tickets to the games, or maybe they just like the uniforms better. (Hey, could you blame them?) It's really very simple, and shouldn't touch off any big debate. Having the town get caught up in baseball fever should be a good thing. Management just has to be sure that, in that favorable environment, the team is good enough to be in the conversation.

I'm afraid that some of you have misunderstood the point that I was trying to make. I am not suggesting that Cub fans would convert to Sox fans. Nor am I suggesting that Cub fans might buy a ticket to watch a game at the Cell, because they can't get a ticket to Wrigley. And, I am certainly not asserting that Chicago would become a Sox Town. I understand the rivalry and the animosity that both sides harbor against the other This is about the casual sports fan, and those not yet even interested in baseball. A general atmosphere of excitement over baseball could very well spill over to the South Side. As I said; it will necessitate good play on the field. Of course, the Sox have to win in order for this to happen. However, if they do play exciting and winning baseball, it seems likely to me that there will be more fan interest and support in an environment of excitement over baseball, which the Cubs might help create, than there would be otherwise. Remember, there are lots of people, especially young people, who may not have ever been involved in, or even exposed to the excitement of a pennant race, and the joy of being a baseball fan. All I'm saying is that, other things being equal, a general atmosphere of excitement and enthusiasm over baseball is more conducive to fan support. If the Cubs contribute to that atmosphere, that seems like a good thing to me. This was an attempt to cheer up some of us, who seem down about the emergence of the Cubs as an even more dominant presence in the Chicago sports market.

The Sox could at least make an offer, just to influence the amount KC ultimately has to shell out to resign him. As has been mentioned, he will probably give them a hometown discount, but it would still be nice to make the contract as big of a burden as possible, for our division rivals, .