Lillian

It is pretty unlikely that they will keep Avi on the Major League club, just to face LHP, as a platoon with La Roche. Management would more likely send him to AAA, where he can get playing time. If they only acquire one of the big 3 outfielders, Shuck probably stays, as the 4TH.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) If LaRoche is in the middle of the order, it means he is back to the guy who the Sox thought they signed. We hope!!

Hey "Bear Brian", to your point: I remember that it was about the time that the Sox were desperate for a decent bat, to hit behind Abreu, that they moved Melky to the middle of the order, and he took off. He is a good run producer, and although he won't hit many homers, he could indeed bat between Jose and Frazier, if the Sox acquire Gordon and put his good OBP in the 2 hole. In any case, I will be very disappointed if the Sox start the season with La Roche in the middle of the order. I would be an advocate for your position, if he were the only other LH bat, besides Melky. I'd rather see them have 6 right handed hitters in a row, than put La Roche in the middle of that lineup. La Roche has to be in the bottom third of the lineup, if at all.

QUOTE (bear_brian @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) In Gordon's career he has an OPS of .653 and a career BA of .226 hitting 4th. He is not a cleanup hitter. Sometimes the feeling that you HAVE to have a balanced lineup just does not work. I will again go back to the 2005 Sox, where the majority of that lineup was RH. Unless we trade for CarGo (doubtful), I think Cespedes is the best alternative, since he can play RF and has legitimate power. That does leave Melky in LF (not good) but moves Avi out. I believe they also will keep LaRoche and hope for a bounceback - there is your LH bat. Yes, I like Melky's LH bat in the middle of the lineup, but who would bat second. How about switching Gordon and Melky, if the Sox acquire him? I'm going to look up Gordon's at bats as a clean up hitter. I really didn't realize that he ever hit much in that spot. Thanks. And hey, I'm not the only one "obsessed" with balance in the lineup. Hahn acquired La Roche, for that reason, and has openly talked about wanting to find a left handed bat. Those of us who feel that it's important may be entirely misguided, however it seems to be a common perception, within the organization.

Hahn already tipped his intentions to rid the roster of La Roche. A willingness to eat 3/4 of his remaining contract is a pretty strong indication that they want him gone. It also appears that they are not ready to give up on Avi. If they can clear the DH spot for Melky, then it makes sense that they would acquire Gordon. He would take Melky's place in LF and Avi would stay in RF. It helps the lineup, as Melky is probably the best 2 hole hitter on the roster. But if he hits second, and La Roche is gone, they have no LH bats to break up the 3 through 7 hitters. Gordon provides that, and balances the line up. He also adds the OBP that Cespedes doesn't, and will require fewer years and less money than Upton, or Cespedes. I see the lineup vs. RHP like this: CF Eaton DH Melky 1B Abreu LF Gordon 3B Frazier 2B Lawrie RF Avi C Avila SS Saladino Like it, or not, I think that's what is coming.

After reading that first paragraph, I concluded that this guy is even more delusional than I am.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) Lillian: I have found in my experience that there are very few "casual" baseball fans in Chicago. The vast majority are either Cub fans or Sox fans, period. No in between and very few (although I actually do know a handful) root for both. If my assumption (based on a lot of years is true) than your premise doesn't really apply. Mark I think that is probably true, but once again that is not what I'm saying. I am talking about a general increasing interest in the city's baseball, which is bound to increase interest and attendance on both sides of town, even if disproportionately on the North Side. Please forget about persuading people to switch allegiances. I understand that we are all accustomed to thinking about being a baseball fan, from our passionate perspective. Think about a young person who has no allegiance and no prior interest in baseball. Now, they are curious to experience what all of the excitement is about, in Chicago. If both teams are playing well, and in their respective races, some of these new fans could certainly be Sox fans. To that person, they might look at any number of seemingly irrelevant factors in choosing their team. Maybe their cousin roots for the Sox, or maybe they like the idea of being able to get tickets to the games, or maybe they just like the uniforms better. (Hey, could you blame them?) It's really very simple, and shouldn't touch off any big debate. Having the town get caught up in baseball fever should be a good thing. Management just has to be sure that, in that favorable environment, the team is good enough to be in the conversation.

I'm afraid that some of you have misunderstood the point that I was trying to make. I am not suggesting that Cub fans would convert to Sox fans. Nor am I suggesting that Cub fans might buy a ticket to watch a game at the Cell, because they can't get a ticket to Wrigley. And, I am certainly not asserting that Chicago would become a Sox Town. I understand the rivalry and the animosity that both sides harbor against the other This is about the casual sports fan, and those not yet even interested in baseball. A general atmosphere of excitement over baseball could very well spill over to the South Side. As I said; it will necessitate good play on the field. Of course, the Sox have to win in order for this to happen. However, if they do play exciting and winning baseball, it seems likely to me that there will be more fan interest and support in an environment of excitement over baseball, which the Cubs might help create, than there would be otherwise. Remember, there are lots of people, especially young people, who may not have ever been involved in, or even exposed to the excitement of a pennant race, and the joy of being a baseball fan. All I'm saying is that, other things being equal, a general atmosphere of excitement and enthusiasm over baseball is more conducive to fan support. If the Cubs contribute to that atmosphere, that seems like a good thing to me. This was an attempt to cheer up some of us, who seem down about the emergence of the Cubs as an even more dominant presence in the Chicago sports market.

The Sox could at least make an offer, just to influence the amount KC ultimately has to shell out to resign him. As has been mentioned, he will probably give them a hometown discount, but it would still be nice to make the contract as big of a burden as possible, for our division rivals, .

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:23 AM) Sox have to be good for this to work. If not, it'll be a complete disaster for us. You are absolutely right. That's precisely my point. If the Sox are not good, they would be missing a great opportunity.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:04 AM) Except for 2011-2014, there has been Cubs "fever" since 1984. If there is spillover to the White Sox, it is minimal. I think if your kid wants to go to a Cubs game, but you get them Sox tickets, the look on their face would be the same as if the wanted an IPad, and you bought them a $75 piece of crap tablet. The Cubs bandwagon keeps growing. Yes, the White Sox are going to be flying well under the radar in Chicago in 2016. That is not necessarily bad. Just win and everything will take care of itself. Make the Score talk about you. If they don't have to, they won't. I agree that Cubs fans are not suddenly going to go to Sox games, because they can't get a ticket to Wrigley. That was not my point. I'm focusing upon casual baseball fans, and potential fans, who have not yet caught baseball fever. You are absolutely correct in your assertion, it is just not relevant to mine. Not everyone is passionate about the game and a favorite team, as are we.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:18 AM) You can make an argument that the JR share of the Cubs' exploding ad rates and tv ratings for the presumed 2016-2019 time frame will pay for Upton, Cespedes or Gordon alone...along with the value of each partnership share increasing in equity value as well. Good points, which I didn't mention. Thank you.

Many of us die hard Sox fans dread the upcoming fervor, we're convinced will be sweeping across the city, over the Cubs' quest for their first World Championship in over a Century. We're skeptical that the front office will take the necessary steps to complete revamping the pathetic offense, which wasted so many terrific starts by Sale and Quintana. So, some of us have already resigned ourselves to the inevitability of a 2016 Season, in which the North Side will capture all of the attention of the city, and maybe even the baseball world. We might be a little premature in sinking into this gloomy defeatist mood. Chicago is a great baseball town, and baseball fever is contagious. When the buzz starts to capture everyone's attention, lots of casual fans, and even formerly uninterested by standers, will begin to feel the first symptoms of baseball fever. Picking up the paper every morning and reading about all of the excitement, listening to friends, family and co workers bantering back and forth about players, plays and stats, could all create an irresistible attraction to the sport we all love. Who knows better than we, how much fun and how addicting it can be to be a baseball fanatic? Wrigley can only accommodate 42,000 fans. Where will the rest of the baseball fever struck fans go, for their baseball fix? Everyone in town knows a Sox fan, or two and with a little encouragement from them, the newbie just might be encouraged to buy a ticket and see just what all of the excitement is about. The Sox need only have a decent, competitive product on the field. And if baseball fever is contagious, so is winning. Who knows, with a few more fans in the seats and some of the new personalities in the Sox clubhouse, these guys might just catch fire. If they could get off to a good start, the town could explode with enthusiasm for the game. Imagine the so longed for talk of a crosstown World Series. It wouldn't take much to set off this contagion. We all have our own opinions about whom the front office should acquire, but let's just hope that Sox ownership has a little imagination and can see the opportunity that they would be missing if they don't at least try to make the team a legitimate contender. I'm not suggesting that we Sox fans should celebrate the emergence of the Cubs, but we shouldn't regard it as a negative for our fortunes. The Sox will decide their own destiny and the growing enthusiasm for their crosstown rivals may actually be a positive.

OK, I'll play your little game: Here was Alexei's line from last season: 33 doubles 0 triples 10 HR 62 RBI 17 SB 7 CX 31 BB 68 SO .249 AVG .285 OBP .357 SLG .642 OPS I'd expect Tyler to do about the same with a few triples, more walks and more strike outs. I'd guess something like: .240 AVG .295 OBP .380 SLG If that transpires, the choice to play the younger guy, and save the money, will have been a wise decision

It's interesting that Upton was a better hitter in that big San Diego Park, than he was on the road. He had more homers and more doubles. You would have thought that his average and doubles might have been better, because of the big alleys, as indeed they were. but, he was simply better in all phases of his offense, away from PetCo Park. More homers, better average and OBP. Everything. Go figure!! I wonder how he'll like hitting in the Cell. I still worry about that cold Spring weather, but he would probably love it there, the rest of the season.

You know what's funny. I was just remembering what Hawk said, last off season, when we acquired Melky. He was touting the projected outfield of Melky, Eaton and Avi as being one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. He opined; "The first rule in baseball is; catch the ball". He went on; "This outfield defense will catch the ball, and will be one of the best". Was he encouraged to promote that nonsense, or was he just clueless?

Jackson's OBP has really declined, the last two years; .311 and .308. I'd rather just play Shuck Eaton and Upton, if Melky is moved to DH. I read that it will take at least $15-18 million for a couple of seasons to lock him up. Remember, he is a Boras client. I didn't check to see if he received a Q. O., which is another consideration.

So, what would the projected payroll look like in 2017, after Danks and La Roche are off the books, and assuming that they did sign an outfielder for approximately $20 million a year? I understand that there are lots of calculations to be made, regarding arbitration and existing contractual raises.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense. This makes a lot of sense. The logic is very compelling to me. Of course, there are all kinds of other factors to consider, but this on base percentage point should be given a lot of weight in their decision. I'm sure that they know that. Perhaps that's why the rumors seem to link the Sox more to Upton, than Cespedes.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 10:08 AM) On this FA OF matter, I've agreed with every word you've said. I too would definitely prefer Upton, but wouldn't mind Cespedes. My reason for Upton is because he is 2 years younger, gets on base more than Cespedes, has the same amount of pop (if not more), and Upton can steal some bases. Plus, I think Upton would compliment Frazier & Abreu more than Cespedes would. I'd rather have 2 guys get on base more in Abreu and Upton (350 OBP) than 2 guys in Frazier and Cespedes (low 300 OBP). You make a very valid and important point. Having added Lawrie and Frazier, both who have power, but not great on base %, adding a power hitter, who also possesses that skill is more valuable. It should also be noted that the returning players on this roster are not good OBP hitters. Another way to look at it is this: Low OBP was one of the major flaws of this team, last season, and the additions the front office has made, so far, have not done anything to address that issue. They have added power, but not OBP. Upton is the guy who can help accomplish that. It's a bonus that he can also hit for big power. Upton should be the guy, even if he cost that draft pick, which Cespedes does not. Another, less tangible advantage of adding players with better OBP skills, is that it might "rub off" on some of the younger, impatient hitters, like Avi and Lawrie. They sure don't need any more bad influence in plate discipline, such as the free swinging Cespedes. Don't misunderstand, I'd be thrilled with him too, but Upton would be a better influence.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) You got me too. Only a troll would question 8 million for a pitcher who gave up homers at an alarming rate. I'm just not into 81 wins and home run derby like you sages There are almost unlimited ways to be "creative". That's what creativity means. Hahn can do all kinds of things, short of dealing the closer, in order to afford acquiring an outfield bat. They are not going to create a hole in the bullpen, and significantly hurt their chances of contending. I said it before, but it was worth reiterating, especially in view of some of these comments. Look gentlemen, the front office has already demonstrated their intentions: They are going to try to bring another championship to the South Side, during this window of opportunity with the core they have. That means that they will not be "dumping" anything useful. That would have made sense, if they had opted to rebuild.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) Don't ever believe teams are truly out on a player even when they say they're "out". A lot of bluffing going on. That being said it's been reported that the Sox need to clear some space to sign one of these guys. Personally I'd trade LaRoche to Pittsburgh and pick up whatever part of the salary the Sox have to pick up just to get him out of here, at this point he adds nothing to the team. Then I'd try to deal Robertson. There might be some teams that would be interested in him and I'm of the belief that you can always find a closer either in house or sign a few guys on 1 year deals to compete for it. Robertson's deal is probably holding up a signing right now. Woah!!! Remember, the front office is obviously going for it. How do they then turn around and deal their closer. I don't see them giving up any useful assets, or creating any temporary holes. They are going to add, not subtract. Whether, or not they are doing the right thing is debatable, but that is what they are doing.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) Agreed. Sale, Quintana, Rodon...and then basically keep you fingers crossed as a below average lefty and a pretty much unknown righty take their turn. Salad at SS is fine, the Sox should go grab a righty to start. That rotation is fine, and Danks has come back quite a ways. He is certainly a more that adequate 5TH starter. The void this staff has, rests with its lack of depth. What happens if one of them goes to the DL? Beck or Turner would be very questionable. I think I'd rather count on Carroll. Ouch! Did I just say that? See what I mean? The depth is pretty shallow.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 07:30 AM) They have room for another bench player and it should be Avi. He'd make for a good platoon with Laroche and a nice late PH option which we'll need with Saladino and catcher spot at the bottom of the order. I understand your rationale in using Avi as La Roche's platoon partner, and I think that he would perform adequately. My preference for sending him to Charlotte is for his benefit. He would get much more playing time there, than he would just facing LH pitching, and DH'ing. He really needs to develop both his hitting and fielding, which he can better do playing every day.

If we acquire another outfielder, with Thompson gone, I'd prefer Shuck to Avi, as the 4TH outfielder. Sending Garcia to AAA to work on his game makes sense. When facing a left handed starter, the Sox could move Melky to DH, sit La Roche and put Shuck in LF. Although he didn't hit LH pitching well last season, in his very limited at bats, Shuck normally hits LHP just fine. In fact, his career numbers are actually better vs LHP, than vs. RHP, which is unusual. Of course, he doesn't have much pop, but if the Sox acquire a power bat for the outfield, they won't need a power hitter to platoon with La Roche. Shuck is also a decent outfielder.