Lillian

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) not until they decide what to do with laroche contract. Even if they have to absorb the total cost of that contract, they have to replace his bat, or they are not going to have a winning season. I sure hope that the front office is not going to make a move contingent upon being able to find a taker for LaRoche.

I'm still betting that the first priority is to find a clean up hitter. I hope so.

Do I understand correctly that Puig's contract allows him to opt out, and into arbitration, after his 3rd year of service time? His service time will reach 3 years, during the upcoming season. That would make him just like any player on the normal "free agency clock," and nullify, what would otherwise have been, a very affordable contract. Nevertheless, he would still be quite affordable, for the next 4 years. I like the suggestion that Abreu be consulted regarding Puig's character. If Jose were confident that Puig wouldn't become a club house cancer, that would be very reassuring.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Nov 12, 2015 -> 07:21 AM) I think we double down on pitching and copy the Royals by investing in the bullpen and trade for Giles from PHI. I also think we sign Ian Desmond. Maybe not to play SS, but to play 3B, 2B, or DH. Maybe even on a 1 or 2 year rebuild value deal like 1/18 or 2/34. He could be looking at a 200 million contract next offseason or two if he has a season or seasons anything like his previous ones, and the South Side is a good spot to do that, potentially as a DH against LHP. Focus on offense half his games. Not sure he wants to lock himself into a 4 year deal for 50-70 million from a limited market when he could be looking at hundreds of millions and more choices on where to play. Based on the following article, a short term deal might be very appealing to Desmond: http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2015/9/28/9409...mond-free-agent Such an arrangement could be ideal for the Sox, as well. Hahn could simply tell him that the Sox understand that he had an uncharacteristically mediocre season, and that they would give him an opportunity to rebuild his true value. They could even guarantee him two years, with an opt out in the 2ND year. What would Desmond have to lose? Let him name his price, within reason. We would be getting a guy who is still in his prime, without having to make a long term commitment. In fact, I'd like to see another player, or two, in a similar circumstance, signed to deals like that. It sure beats giving guys at the end of their careers, long term, exorbitant contracts.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 6, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) Here's the same thing basically from Baseball Prospectus: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=27844 The writer does his predictions and has a random computer generator as well. The computer has the White Sox signing Justin Upton, Chris Davis, and Howie Kendrick. Okay then. If the front office could make that dream come true, they could skip Kendrick. Upton and Davis would make the Sox offense formidable enough, that they could live with Sanchez at 2ND, in order to solidify the defense.

Oh yes, of course. It's been a long time. Or, maybe it's just Alzheimers. I'm just kidding, although I'm old enough, that it could be true.

Why did they just say that Jack Morris pitched the last complete game in the World Series? The Sox pitched 4 in a row in 2005.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) I'm sure every front office has an off season plan that they try to follow but so many things aren't in their control that they have to have options and back up's plans for everything. At least I assume the good ones do. It doesn't haapen often that you print out a list and check off the needs in order 1, 2, 3, or A,B,C. What happens if B falls through, what then? Do you pass up C to do something differently for the B position? What if you can't get A? Do you throw the plan out because another team 'suddenly' says, 'we've got so and so available are you interested?' It's not easy being a G.M. in this sport. See what I mean. Mark The off season last year clearly seemed to consist of a prioritized check list, which Hahn proceeded to check off. Unfortunately, he made a couple of bad choices. Moreover, unless you intend to meet every objective, with unlimited resources, wouldn't that almost necessitate that you prioritize?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) 1. 1A. 1B. 1C.....Acquire talent by any means available...buying free agents, signing international players, rule 5 draft, solid trades. Really when you get down to it the Sox still have so many needs that filling any position has got to help overall. So while I understand trying to focus on a particular area or areas, I'll take a talent upgrade anyplace. You can usually move some players around to other spots if needed. Mark Is that the way the front office will approach it? I thought they try to be more specific than that. But then, I have no idea how they do it.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) 1. 1A. 1B. 1C.....Acquire talent by any means available...buying free agents, signing international players, rule 5 draft, solid trades. Really when you get down to it the Sox still have so many needs that filling any position has got to help overall. So while I understand trying to focus on a particular area or areas, I'll take a talent upgrade anyplace. You can usually move some players around to other spots if needed. Mark Is that the way the front office will approach it? I thought they try to be more specific than that. But then, I have no idea how they do it.

Let's try to focus this discussion on priorities. Would you guys please list the top 4 to 6 objectives, in the offseason, in order of priorities? Please also make some specific recommendations. Try to do it without creating new holes, especially in the pitching. You can surmise mine, but here they are, in order of priorities, but minus the solutions: 1) Find a power bat to complete the middle of the order. 2) Find a new SS to play solid defense, and bat second 3) Resign Albers 4) Find a good defensive third baseman, who can contribute on offense 5) Improve offensive production, behind the plate, without diminishing the defense and handling of the staff 6) Dump most of La Roche's salary I left out the qualifying offer to Shark, as that is a given. I also omitted retaining the starting staff. OK. Your turn, gentlemen.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:38 AM) Every team has black holes in their lineup. So long as those players produce defensively, its not a huge problem. Very few teams have potent lineup from 1-9. The Sox can live with Sanchez and Flowers in their lineup. I am no fan of Flowers, but he is a league average catcher. The catching position around baseball is pitiful. I see no reason to play Olt. I'd rather Saladino play 3B. I thought Olt's glove was pretty medicre at best...at least Saldino can throw some leather. But I am pretty much convinced the Sox will have a 3B on their roster next year who is not currently there and one that will be batting between 3-6. Oh, I hope so!! Please.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) Lillian: With respect to you. Flowers is a black hole and no, no, no ,no to Olt. Still with four gigantic holes in the lineup offensively...just my opinion. Mark I agree with your assessment of most of the holes. The difference is that I don't see the need to fill all of them. If the bottom third of the lineup consists of 3 offensive "holes," I don't view that as fatal. Olt, Flowers and Sanchez would be those 3 players. A more realistic goal is to make the top 6 spots in the lineup capable of scoring enough runs to support a solid pitching staff. The bottom 3 guys in the lineup do need to be plus defenders, but I would be satisfied with that. Moreover, I see upside potential in the offense of Olt and Sanchez. Regarding Olt; he has never really had a chance. I've always agreed with what the great Ted Williams said: "It take most guys about 1,000 Major League at bats, to figure it out.

I hope you guys know that I was being sarcastic. That's just the impression I get reading the pessimism on this site.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) That SS is not on the market right now, that we know of... Cespedes, Upton, Chris Davis, Heyward and Gordon (the latter two not clean-up types anyway) are going to cost $100 million and up. Good luck getting JR to shell out after this year. Next, counting on Flowers, Thompson, Olt and almost a 100% healthy team again next year is dubious at best. Foolish, at worst. Those three, along with Sanchez, are lucky to be bench players on a real playoff team. Well then, I guess there is little hope of turning this team into a contender.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 12, 2015 -> 09:26 PM) When you are as bad at defense, fielding and base running as the Sox are you have to compensate by outscoring your opponent (for example the 1977 White Sox). Keep in mind the Sox are going to lose Shark a guy who if nothing else gave you innings and had some, repeat some good games. You are assuming Johnson can fill that void...maybe he can...and maybe he can't. Danks had a remarkable second half for a guy with a bad arm. The odds of that happening again? No one can say but I wouldn't bet your life that he can repeat it. And if the Sox decide to trade Q then what? So basically the only real constants you have in the rotation right now are Sale and Rodon, if Q stays that's three. How many teams made the playoffs with three starters? Let me give you another example. In 2009 Kenny decided that the Sox rotation was storong enough with Buehrle, Floyd and Danks at the top so that he could gamble with 40% of it being filled with a beat up Jose Contraras and a pre steroid Bartolo Colon. That didn't work out to well did it? Same situation here if you think the Sox could get by with three starters and 'hope' there's that word again that Danks or Johnson or both can produce. It could happen, and it also could blow up in their faces. So you either go out and have to get pitching (which is a tough get today) or compensate by scoring say six runs a game. I never said the Sox had to have great hitters 1-9, no team has that. On a good team Sanchez would be welcome to hit #9 regardless of what he'd produce offensively because he seems to be a skilled defender. What the Sox do need, and in typical Sox luck, they basically aren't available are good hitters / power bats for DH, catcher, a corner outfield spot and third base. That's four gaping holes which honestly I don't think they could fill even if JR gave the go ahead to raise the payroll by a gigantic amount (which I'm confident he won't do...) The Sox are between a rock and a hard place and I don't know if they can find a way out. That's why I'd like to see them blow it up and start over but to do that you have to bring in skilled talent evaluators or you'd just be spinning your wheels (like they are already doing under Kenny Williams) Mark Just a few comments in response to yours: 1) It appears that Danks has slowly, but steadily, been gaining strength in his shoulder. His velocity was back to the low 90's and combined with the change up, which he has refined, his second half success may not be a fluke. He has become a better pitcher, out of necessity, during the time that he lost so much velocity. At this point, I think he is a decent bet to be a very solid 4TH or 5TH starter, who can provide a quality start most of the time. Erik Johnson is likely capable of being the 5TH guy. I think Fulmer may follow Sale and Rodon in coming quickly, even if only in the Pen. The Sox are in the enviable position of not really needing to add any pitching. 2) Find a potent clean up hitter to DH, and the offense should be vastly improved over the pathetic output they got from that spot in the order last season. 3) Don't exercise the $10 Million option on Alexei, and find a slick fielding SS, who can do a credible job in the "2 hole" of the order. They don't need an All Star there, but someone who can hit behind the runner, lay down a bunt and be a plus fielder. I'd prefer a veteran, as Anderson could be ready soon. 4) Give Olt a shot at 3RD. He is a capable defender with huge power potential. 5) Leave Flowers behind the plate, as the pitching staff seems to flourish with him there, and the pitchers like throwing to him. 6) If Thompson can beat out Avi in RF, the outfield defense should be fine with Melky in LF, Eaton in CF and Trayce in RF. Infield defense would be fine with Olt at 3RD, a new good defensive SS and Sanchez at 2ND. 7) In conclusion, I see two holes, not 4. Just get that big bat to DH and a good defender at SS, who can hit in the 2 hole. What's wrong with that plan?

Lip, do you really think the Sox would have to sign a bunch of free agents, at the cost of raising the payroll by $75 million? Again, if they can keep the pitching, while bringing in a clean up hitter, and a SS who can bat second, I don't know why the Sox couldn't win a lot of the games they lost, giving up 2 or 3 runs. I just don't understand the rationale behind trying to fix every hole in the lineup. How many teams have good hitters 1 through 9?

1) H. R. is not too old, and he will only be 32, 33 and 34 during the remaining 3 years of his contract. 2) He is owed $22 Million for each of those 3 years. 3) I have no idea if he is a "Divo," or what kind of clubhouse presence he represents. In light of those facts, if the Red Sox would pay enough of his salary to reduce the cost to the Pale Hose to something around $12 to 15 Million, he could potentially solve the lack of run production problem. I assume that he would bat clean up vs. LHP and 5TH vs. RHP, while DH'ing. The top half of the order might look like this vs. LHP: Eaton ? Abreu H. Ramirez Cabrera Against RHP, it probably would make sense to flip H. Ramirez and Melky, in order to get the Left handed bat sandwiched between Abreu and Ramirez. If they could acquire him without giving up important pitching, it might make sense.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) I'd trade Garcia for a bullpen arm, or lower prospect. I don't think he is very good in my opinion. Or at least not a part of a winning successful team. First 6 hitters? Eaton, Melky, Abreu, Heyward, Trayce, Uribe? I mean, in my plan I'm not necessarily going for power. I am going for speed and defense. I think that outfield could straight out chase down balls. With a good pitching staff I think that's really important. Just another thought would maybe be someone like a Josh Harrison for 3B/multi UTIL man. He is signed through 2018 and Kang came on strong. In that case I'd go Eaton, Harrison, Abreu, Melky, Heyward, Trayce. And here is another crazy thought.. its the offseason, so why not throw out crazy ideas? If we aren't going to be a power team, and we are a better pitching team, maybe push the OF wall back again.. can push that thing 5-10 feet in most areas still I believe. Play to our team. Not sure of the process to get that approved league wise. I think we've adapted to this mentality that since our field is small we must build a team that is all power. Almost the last 20 years have been predicated on an all or nothing approach. I'd like to get away from that. Don't you think that it's a little too soon to give up on Garcia? Why not let Thompson and Garcia compete for an outfield spot? That middle of the order doesn't look like it would score a lot of runs. I hope the front office can do better than that.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 12:26 PM) The Sox should see what it takes to get Danny Valencia from Oakland to plug up 3B. I'd send Micah & Beck over there for him and that plugs a huge hole in the line-up with a decent defender. He is arb eligible this year and a free agent after next season, but he is a good candidate to take a team friendly 3 year deal IMO. My new off season plan... Trade Micah Johnson and Chris Beck to Oakland for Danny Valencia & LHP Fernando Abad Trade Adam LaRoche + 4m to Pirates for nothing. Trade Frankie Montas, Erik Johnson, Tyler Saladino and Avisail Garcia to Rockies for Carlos Gonzalez Sign Matt Wieters 1 yr/12m + 5 mil in health/performance incentives and a club option for 18m Sign Ian Kennedey to 2 yr/20M deal Accept 10M option on Alexei Ramirez Sign Ben Zobrist to 2yr/25M deal Resign Albers 1 yr/2m Line-up LF - Adam Eaton 2B - Ben Zobrist 1B - Jose Abreu RF - CarGo DH - Melky Cabrera C - Matt Wieters 3B - Danny Valencia SS - Alexei Ramirez CF - Trayce Thompson SP - Sale Q Rodon Kennedy Danks (Traded or sent to bullpen after ASB, rotation spot taken by Fulmer) Pen Robertson Jones Duke Abad Putnam Albers Jennings Bench - Brantly - C Sanchez - IF Shuck - OF Garcia - IF/OF Interesting ideas, but do the Sox really need 4 new position players. If you merely tried to find the 2 hole hitter and a clean up hitter, what would your plan look like?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 10:46 AM) Yeah honestly that team just doesn't look good. If I had to take a stab at it: Eaton CF Heyward RF Abreu 1B Cabrera DH Tracye LF Uribe 3B? In 996 career plate appearances, batting second in the lineup, Heyward is a .251 hitter. He hit in that spot just 74 at bats, last season, but the results were awful. He only hit .208 there, with an OBP of .230. He has had much better success batting 3rd through 5th, but still very little power. It seems as though if he were on the Sox, he would be much better suited in the heart of the order. Nevertheless, he is not a big enough run producer to fix our anemic lineup. I'm convinced the Sox need a really potent bat at cleanup, which Heyward does not possess.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 09:36 AM) The real question is - what do you think the off-season budget allows? Does Uncle Jerry have an open checkbook? For instance, if he for some reason is buying into this three year plan, does he say, "Well, we have LaRoche at $13mm and Danks at $15mm coming off the books next year, so let's push the plan forward a year and basically sign a Cespedes or a Heyward??" Also, not saying it would, but could the Cubs advancing to the World Series or winning a WS, or just in general being ahead of their schedule affect the Sox plans? Meaning, if they own the city, maybe it's a good time to trade assets, and rebuild while the focus is off the Sox in a way? My opinion still stands that the best way to "quick fix" this team is to somehow keep the pitching together, while acquiring defense and speed. I believe if we can keep our 4 pitchers together for this upcoming year (Sale, Q, Rodon, Danks -- throw in Johnson as insurance) and then sign a FA on 1-2 year deal (Bartolo Colon, Iwukama, Kennedy ... though the latter two probably cost more $$ and years), keep the bullpen, and add defense? I think that makes us a contender. I would honestly throw the $200mm+ at Heyward. Which sounds crazy. But I would. (Look at his WAR) I think with him and Trayce in the OF that takes us to one of the top OF in the league. Melky to DH. LaRoche to back up bum who plays 60 games. 30 at 1B, 30 at DH. 3B you sign Uribe. I'm not the biggest fan of Uribe, nor do I think he fixes a problem, but can be a band-aid that supplies defense and is a known clubhouse presence. I take or leave Alexei at this point. I'd rather take him, but if for budgetary reasons you can't? I leave him. OF: Heyward, Trayce, Eaton (Melky) IF: Abreu, Sanchez, Alexei, Uribe (Saladino, LaRoche) C: ??? Someone DH: Melky You have Eaton and Trayce as your CF if one needs a day off. You slide in Melky as your 4th OF. Can play both corners and get 40-50 games out there. LaRoche gets the 40-50 DH games when Melky is in the OF and gets 15-20 games at 1B Saladino can back up the whole IF. Doesn't cost a WHOLE ton. Maybe about $40mm to the payroll, but knowing the expectation that $28mm comes off the following year. Improves the defense tremendously, still have some flexibility on the bench, and keep pitching staff in tact. In your plan, what happens to Garcia? More importantly, who bats cleanup? Who are your first 6 hitters in the lineup, after spending all of that money, to acquire Heyward?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 06:10 PM) See Kendrys Morales, 2015. Ian Desmond is flawed and he might be the best SS option, and it's not certain he will even be available. Don't get the sense they trust Saladino as a full-time player. Morales is the guy I wanted, last off season. I've lamented Hahn's choice for a long time. Is Desmond really a good enough SS, and a capable two hole hitter.

Is it really necessary to address all of the so called “holes” on the current Sox roster? This seems to be a very common approach employed, when we amateur GM’s advocate ways to fix this team. Very few teams are ever able to build rosters which don’t have any “holes,” especially in the era of soaring salaries and free agency. Any organization with limited resources simply can’t put an above average WAR player at every position. The Sox have playoff caliber pitching, which is the most important component of winning baseball. If they are able to keep the rotation of Sale, Q, Rodon, Danks & Johnson, with Fulmer on his way, and a bullpen of Robertson, Jones, Albers, Duke and Putnam/Petricka, the pitching should have the depth and quality to compete, all the way through the post season. I’d prefer to first address the middle of the order, from which teams normally obtain their offensive production. You all know how critical I think has been the failure to find a solid clean up hitter. This has been a significant issue, ever since Thome left. We all fretted over 3 years of Dunn, and this year’s fiasco with LaRoche. Fixing that problem should be the highest priority. A solid clean up hitter, preferably left handed, could make the first half of the lineup respectable. If a solid two hole hitter can be found, to fill out the top half of the order, the rest of the lineup could consist of average, to below average, offensive players, who contribute on defense. I think the best place to fill the two hole spot is SS. Ramirez is getting too old, and too expensive, and is really not suitable to bat second. It will probably be at least a year, maybe two, before Anderson is ready. If the front office can find a good defensive short stop, who could be a decent 2 hole hitter, that would allow Abreu to bat 3RD, where he belongs. It would also allow Melky to bat 5TH, which is more suitable. The 2ND spot in the line up doesn't require a great hitter, but at least a guy who can hit behind the runner, on hit and run plays, lay down a bunt, and get on base at a respectable rate. He doesn’t need to hit for a high average, or provide any power. It shouldn’t be that expensive to find an aging veteran, perhaps someone in the last year before free agency, whom they could acquire in a trade, to fill that role. The power bat at clean up would most likely be a DH, thus replacing LaRoche. You know that I don't care what they do with LaRoche. It's a sunken cost. With just those two holes filled, this offense becomes pretty good, with a solid defense: CF Eaton SS ? 1B Abreu DH ? LF Cabrera RF Thompson/Garcia 3B Olt C Flowers/Soto 2B Sanchez Thompson and Garcia could battle for the 3RD outfield spot. Olt is a worthwhile gamble for the potential power he could provide, if he figures it out. His Minor League history suggests that he can take his walks, and play solid defense. Flowers seems to be able to handle the pitching staff, so perhaps that hole can be overlooked. Sanchez could well take another step up in offensive production, and he provides stellar defense at 2ND. Ultimately, I still hope that he can develop into a good 2 hole hitter, which is where he has had his best Minor League success. So, does anyone have an idea who might be that 2 hole hitter at short, or who could be the clean up hitter? At least it's just two holes, not an unrealistic 4 or 5.

Would someone please explain to me how anyone can justify paying Heyward $25 Million, per year, on a multi year contract? I understand that he is a terrific defensive Right Fielder, but really? I'm sorry. I just don't get it. Someone even had him batting cleanup. Again, Adam Eaton had the same production. If anyone suggested batting Eaton cleanup, they would be laughed off this forum.