Lillian

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:23 AM) Sox have to be good for this to work. If not, it'll be a complete disaster for us. You are absolutely right. That's precisely my point. If the Sox are not good, they would be missing a great opportunity.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:04 AM) Except for 2011-2014, there has been Cubs "fever" since 1984. If there is spillover to the White Sox, it is minimal. I think if your kid wants to go to a Cubs game, but you get them Sox tickets, the look on their face would be the same as if the wanted an IPad, and you bought them a $75 piece of crap tablet. The Cubs bandwagon keeps growing. Yes, the White Sox are going to be flying well under the radar in Chicago in 2016. That is not necessarily bad. Just win and everything will take care of itself. Make the Score talk about you. If they don't have to, they won't. I agree that Cubs fans are not suddenly going to go to Sox games, because they can't get a ticket to Wrigley. That was not my point. I'm focusing upon casual baseball fans, and potential fans, who have not yet caught baseball fever. You are absolutely correct in your assertion, it is just not relevant to mine. Not everyone is passionate about the game and a favorite team, as are we.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:18 AM) You can make an argument that the JR share of the Cubs' exploding ad rates and tv ratings for the presumed 2016-2019 time frame will pay for Upton, Cespedes or Gordon alone...along with the value of each partnership share increasing in equity value as well. Good points, which I didn't mention. Thank you.

Many of us die hard Sox fans dread the upcoming fervor, we're convinced will be sweeping across the city, over the Cubs' quest for their first World Championship in over a Century. We're skeptical that the front office will take the necessary steps to complete revamping the pathetic offense, which wasted so many terrific starts by Sale and Quintana. So, some of us have already resigned ourselves to the inevitability of a 2016 Season, in which the North Side will capture all of the attention of the city, and maybe even the baseball world. We might be a little premature in sinking into this gloomy defeatist mood. Chicago is a great baseball town, and baseball fever is contagious. When the buzz starts to capture everyone's attention, lots of casual fans, and even formerly uninterested by standers, will begin to feel the first symptoms of baseball fever. Picking up the paper every morning and reading about all of the excitement, listening to friends, family and co workers bantering back and forth about players, plays and stats, could all create an irresistible attraction to the sport we all love. Who knows better than we, how much fun and how addicting it can be to be a baseball fanatic? Wrigley can only accommodate 42,000 fans. Where will the rest of the baseball fever struck fans go, for their baseball fix? Everyone in town knows a Sox fan, or two and with a little encouragement from them, the newbie just might be encouraged to buy a ticket and see just what all of the excitement is about. The Sox need only have a decent, competitive product on the field. And if baseball fever is contagious, so is winning. Who knows, with a few more fans in the seats and some of the new personalities in the Sox clubhouse, these guys might just catch fire. If they could get off to a good start, the town could explode with enthusiasm for the game. Imagine the so longed for talk of a crosstown World Series. It wouldn't take much to set off this contagion. We all have our own opinions about whom the front office should acquire, but let's just hope that Sox ownership has a little imagination and can see the opportunity that they would be missing if they don't at least try to make the team a legitimate contender. I'm not suggesting that we Sox fans should celebrate the emergence of the Cubs, but we shouldn't regard it as a negative for our fortunes. The Sox will decide their own destiny and the growing enthusiasm for their crosstown rivals may actually be a positive.

OK, I'll play your little game: Here was Alexei's line from last season: 33 doubles 0 triples 10 HR 62 RBI 17 SB 7 CX 31 BB 68 SO .249 AVG .285 OBP .357 SLG .642 OPS I'd expect Tyler to do about the same with a few triples, more walks and more strike outs. I'd guess something like: .240 AVG .295 OBP .380 SLG If that transpires, the choice to play the younger guy, and save the money, will have been a wise decision

It's interesting that Upton was a better hitter in that big San Diego Park, than he was on the road. He had more homers and more doubles. You would have thought that his average and doubles might have been better, because of the big alleys, as indeed they were. but, he was simply better in all phases of his offense, away from PetCo Park. More homers, better average and OBP. Everything. Go figure!! I wonder how he'll like hitting in the Cell. I still worry about that cold Spring weather, but he would probably love it there, the rest of the season.

You know what's funny. I was just remembering what Hawk said, last off season, when we acquired Melky. He was touting the projected outfield of Melky, Eaton and Avi as being one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. He opined; "The first rule in baseball is; catch the ball". He went on; "This outfield defense will catch the ball, and will be one of the best". Was he encouraged to promote that nonsense, or was he just clueless?

Jackson's OBP has really declined, the last two years; .311 and .308. I'd rather just play Shuck Eaton and Upton, if Melky is moved to DH. I read that it will take at least $15-18 million for a couple of seasons to lock him up. Remember, he is a Boras client. I didn't check to see if he received a Q. O., which is another consideration.

So, what would the projected payroll look like in 2017, after Danks and La Roche are off the books, and assuming that they did sign an outfielder for approximately $20 million a year? I understand that there are lots of calculations to be made, regarding arbitration and existing contractual raises.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense. This makes a lot of sense. The logic is very compelling to me. Of course, there are all kinds of other factors to consider, but this on base percentage point should be given a lot of weight in their decision. I'm sure that they know that. Perhaps that's why the rumors seem to link the Sox more to Upton, than Cespedes.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 10:08 AM) On this FA OF matter, I've agreed with every word you've said. I too would definitely prefer Upton, but wouldn't mind Cespedes. My reason for Upton is because he is 2 years younger, gets on base more than Cespedes, has the same amount of pop (if not more), and Upton can steal some bases. Plus, I think Upton would compliment Frazier & Abreu more than Cespedes would. I'd rather have 2 guys get on base more in Abreu and Upton (350 OBP) than 2 guys in Frazier and Cespedes (low 300 OBP). You make a very valid and important point. Having added Lawrie and Frazier, both who have power, but not great on base %, adding a power hitter, who also possesses that skill is more valuable. It should also be noted that the returning players on this roster are not good OBP hitters. Another way to look at it is this: Low OBP was one of the major flaws of this team, last season, and the additions the front office has made, so far, have not done anything to address that issue. They have added power, but not OBP. Upton is the guy who can help accomplish that. It's a bonus that he can also hit for big power. Upton should be the guy, even if he cost that draft pick, which Cespedes does not. Another, less tangible advantage of adding players with better OBP skills, is that it might "rub off" on some of the younger, impatient hitters, like Avi and Lawrie. They sure don't need any more bad influence in plate discipline, such as the free swinging Cespedes. Don't misunderstand, I'd be thrilled with him too, but Upton would be a better influence.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) You got me too. Only a troll would question 8 million for a pitcher who gave up homers at an alarming rate. I'm just not into 81 wins and home run derby like you sages There are almost unlimited ways to be "creative". That's what creativity means. Hahn can do all kinds of things, short of dealing the closer, in order to afford acquiring an outfield bat. They are not going to create a hole in the bullpen, and significantly hurt their chances of contending. I said it before, but it was worth reiterating, especially in view of some of these comments. Look gentlemen, the front office has already demonstrated their intentions: They are going to try to bring another championship to the South Side, during this window of opportunity with the core they have. That means that they will not be "dumping" anything useful. That would have made sense, if they had opted to rebuild.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) Don't ever believe teams are truly out on a player even when they say they're "out". A lot of bluffing going on. That being said it's been reported that the Sox need to clear some space to sign one of these guys. Personally I'd trade LaRoche to Pittsburgh and pick up whatever part of the salary the Sox have to pick up just to get him out of here, at this point he adds nothing to the team. Then I'd try to deal Robertson. There might be some teams that would be interested in him and I'm of the belief that you can always find a closer either in house or sign a few guys on 1 year deals to compete for it. Robertson's deal is probably holding up a signing right now. Woah!!! Remember, the front office is obviously going for it. How do they then turn around and deal their closer. I don't see them giving up any useful assets, or creating any temporary holes. They are going to add, not subtract. Whether, or not they are doing the right thing is debatable, but that is what they are doing.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) Agreed. Sale, Quintana, Rodon...and then basically keep you fingers crossed as a below average lefty and a pretty much unknown righty take their turn. Salad at SS is fine, the Sox should go grab a righty to start. That rotation is fine, and Danks has come back quite a ways. He is certainly a more that adequate 5TH starter. The void this staff has, rests with its lack of depth. What happens if one of them goes to the DL? Beck or Turner would be very questionable. I think I'd rather count on Carroll. Ouch! Did I just say that? See what I mean? The depth is pretty shallow.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 07:30 AM) They have room for another bench player and it should be Avi. He'd make for a good platoon with Laroche and a nice late PH option which we'll need with Saladino and catcher spot at the bottom of the order. I understand your rationale in using Avi as La Roche's platoon partner, and I think that he would perform adequately. My preference for sending him to Charlotte is for his benefit. He would get much more playing time there, than he would just facing LH pitching, and DH'ing. He really needs to develop both his hitting and fielding, which he can better do playing every day.

If we acquire another outfielder, with Thompson gone, I'd prefer Shuck to Avi, as the 4TH outfielder. Sending Garcia to AAA to work on his game makes sense. When facing a left handed starter, the Sox could move Melky to DH, sit La Roche and put Shuck in LF. Although he didn't hit LH pitching well last season, in his very limited at bats, Shuck normally hits LHP just fine. In fact, his career numbers are actually better vs LHP, than vs. RHP, which is unusual. Of course, he doesn't have much pop, but if the Sox acquire a power bat for the outfield, they won't need a power hitter to platoon with La Roche. Shuck is also a decent outfielder.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 08:28 PM) Kudos to Lillian for not falling back on the whole LH fascination and advocating for Alex Gordon, haha. (It's pretty amazing how quiet things have actually been on that front, compared to Cespedes and Upton. All you hear is/was what the Cardinals and KC SUPPOSEDLY offered him or initially wanted to offer him, but even that's pretty much unconfirmed. Lots of rumors.) Hey, I'd still prefer a left handed bat, but unfortunately the only one out there is Gordon, and I don't think that is realistic for this team. I hope that you understand my seeming obsession with that issue is primarily a function of the obvious dearth of LH pop, on recent Sox rosters.

Caulfield has reiterated a lot of what I posted earlier, and I still think they are valid points. I'm sort of torn between Upton and Cespedes. I'll be thrilled with either one of them, if that's what transpires.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 07:12 PM) I think it's a mistake to look at career stats . After all the guy isn't 22, 23, 24 any more. . I think it's best to look for trends . Last year he was bad vs. left handers and terribly streaky. Just look at his bating averages by month. June and July he was terrible. His OBP has gone down for 4 straight years. All that being said I wouldn't be at all upset if the Sox got him because he does have a good track record . I just like Cespedes and his AL pedigree more. You make a valid point about the trend, and I do worry about the A. L. factor. I'd also love Cespedes. Nevertheless, Upton has been pretty consistent, in his career, and he is young enough that we shouldn't expect age to be a factor, for a while.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) That's 2014 No, the chart, graph and figures I cited were for 2015

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) I started watching some Upton highlights from last year and something jumped off the screen to me...he hit a ton of cheap homers. I looked up the stats and he was near the top of the list for lucky/cheap homers. This was one of the warning signs that people had regarding LaRoche and Abreu after 2014. Upton's average home run distance was 10 feet less in 2015 than 2014. He's a good player, but his power is his main tool and if that starts to fade, you're looking at a bad contract possibly. You might have a different perspective, after viewing this chart and graph: http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php...amp;type=hitter There actually were not very many "cheap" homers. His 3 shortest homers measured 360', 363'and 367'. He hit 15 of them over 400'. Perhaps you just happened to see videos of the few that were not legitimate "bombs".

Upton's Career Stats are remarkably consistent. Even his Inter-League numbers are very close to his performance against N. L. teams. The guy seems to hit righties and lefties about the same, whether at home, or on the road. Even where he bats in the lineup has had very little effect. All of that is very reassuring, especially regarding the concerns that some of us have expressed about acquiring National League players. If we could put him in the heart of the order and just pencil in his career numbers of .271 .352 .473 .825, the Sox really could be ready to compete for a couple of Post Season runs.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) Why are you so adamant about having a high obp guy behind Abreu? Obviously you want high obp guys everywhere but it's much more important to have one in front of him as opposed to behind him. It isn't so much a matter of having that high OBP behind Abreu, as it is having another high OBP in the heart of the order. At this point, Abreu is the only high OBP hitter, in the 3 through 5 spots. Frazier cannot be expected to fulfill that need. Even with all of his power, he has not been a high on base guy. La Roche we all know can't be counted on, and shouldn't even sniff the middle of the order. Laurie's OBP has not been good, so far. I actually prefer Melky batting more in the middle of the order, versus RHP, but his OBP is not that great either. I think this team needs a big bat, with an OBP of at least .340 to .350 to hit with Abreu and Frazier, in the heart of the order. That would make the offense very formidable and this team would be serious contenders. It probably wouldn't matter how much offense they would get from the bottom 3RD of the order, if they can score runs from the first 6 guys in the lineup. Eaton gets on base a lot, but after him, the only high OBP hitter on this roster is Jose. I'm afraid that will leave us all pretty frustrated.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 10:47 AM) RaBBit has said it, Nightengale has said it, Levine has said it, etc. They are in on the top 3. Teams seem to be falling off in terms of potential suitors, so I think the Sox have a good chance of getting one. I also would not mind seeing them end up with Parra, either. Good glove, not a power hitter but an overall good player that would be a sizable improvement over Avi at this point. I like him, but he doesn't fill the hole we have at clean up. I'm not satisfied with Frazier hitting there. I like him better at #5. The Sox need a power hitting, respectable OBP bat, behind Abreu. If they sign an outfielder, he should be that guy, not just "an overall good player". You can't get enough power and run production out of an outfield, made up of Melky, Eaton and Parra.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) Ha oh trust me I would love Cespedes. Not only do I think he's the best player but it would mean the most from a marketing standpoint since he was so visible last year with all that MVP talk once he got to the Mets. Then there's the Cuban Whatever it would end up being called pairing him with Abreu. Then start winning and it's Little Havana at the Cell every game. Would be a lot of fun. Add some Cuban drinks to the menu and Ricky Ricardo , Gloria Estafan music , have a Bongo Night giveaway and it's dancing in the aisles . "Don't Stop now, boys"