Lillian

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) No, I value him. I am sure it'd take something to get him but I am not sure what. I'd look to acquire him without trading Alexei Why when anyone questions your posts you ask them if they read the last fews posts? It's a strange defense mechanism. Why don't you quote me the posts on Diaz's defense or splits and I'll dispel them if they exist. I'd love to make a signature bet on Jirschele playing in Chicago next year too. I see. Thanks for clarifying that for me. That would indeed be quite a coup if the Sox could get Kemp and money, without offering something of value, that the Dodgers want. That seems unrealistic to me. "Roostifier's" inquiry as to whether or not you had read the posts, seems reasonable. When one misquotes or ignores previous posts, I often wonder the same thing; "did they read what was just posted?". While we're on the subject of the posting decorum, please accept this observation in the spirit of friendly criticism: Perhaps less hyperbole would make for a more cordial atmosphere. As a moderator, I hope that you can appreciate my point. Language such as "lunacy", and suggestions of betting on someone's idea ever happening, seem a little unnecessary. For my part, I've developed a pretty thick skin, posting on this board. I've taken plenty of scorn and humiliation for my "crazy" obsessions with Grady Sizemore, and the like LOL. It just seems to be the standard protocol on Internet message boards. I often wonder if people talk to each other this way in person. I'm 70, and it is not the way I comported myself, my entire life. Having been in business, that kind of adversarial posture wouldn't have been very beneficial. I guess things just aren't like they used to be. This board is actually pretty tame, compared to what I find on Youtube and other social media. It's really quite shocking. It's just so much more fun when posters are cordial and don't attempt to belittle their fellow Sox fans. Hey, we all root for the same team, right? I'd like to save my jeers for the Tigers, Royals and Twinkies!! At any rate, keep up the good work as moderator, and please keep posting, as they are always interesting. Thanks for entertaining my suggestion.

Here are some stats for both Ethier and Kemp, whose numbers are right below him, vs. RHP. Of course Kemp is a much better hitter vs. LHP, but RHP is what hitters face most of the time: YEAR PA .AVG .OBP SLG BB SO 2008 441 .326 .392 .560 44 64 2008 470 .260 .309 .416 30 112 2009 498 .302 .390 .571 59 77 2009 513 .278 .329 .453 36 122 2010 407 .318 .396 .564 46 66 2010 498 .233 .299 .444 41 134 2011 400 .321 .410 .468 51 62 2011 524 .319 .380 .560 44 130 It should be noted that Kemp batted cleanup, behind Ethier, who was on base a lot. I wonder how their comparative SLG% would have looked, if they traded places. 2012 379 .325 .398 .546 39 61 2012 311 .276 .341 .477 26 75 2013 393 .294 .394 .460 52 60 2014 434 .295 .355 .524 38 116 I substituted 2013 with last year, because of Kemp being injured for most of 2013 I just thought that it was interesting

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) I think it is interesting how many people are shooting down the idea of Kemp. I wanted to trade from him last year, assuming the Dodgers paid for half his contract, and buy low on a top 15 bat in baseball. Yes, his defense blows and he's supposedly a douchebag, but he could change the face of this offense. Away from Victor Martinez, Kemp is the only player available who can change the face of the offense. Matt Kemp 2nd half in 2014: .309/.365/.606/.971 Kemp away from LA in 2014: 300/.373/.479/.852 Jose Abreu full year in 2014: .317/.383/.581/.964 Imagine those two, along with LaRoche, in two of the 3-4-5 spots. Hanley Ramirez, who just signed for a year 4 year 88 million dollar deal also sucks at defense and hasn't been the offensive player Kemp has been. So a 5 year 107 million is probably close to what the market would have given Kemp if he were a FA this season. Make the Dodgers throw some money in for the back of the deal and you're really in great shape. Kemp and Abreu could be the best 3-4 in baseball. I hope Kenny Williams loves Kemp as much as I think he would. Are you suggesting that the Dodgers would just "give" him to the Sox, and pay a portion of his salary, without demanding a player in return?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) Personally, I think you are underrating Eithier a good bit. Part of a platoon isn't that big of a deal when you are talking about a LH OF. He will still get an easy 500 PA's if he stays healthy. I'm not putting much stock in his #' in 2014 because of the situation he was in...in 2013 he hit .294/.394/.460 against righties in just under 400 PA's. Even if you want to say he's regressed a decent amount since then I think it would be hard to argue that he could give us a .280/.360/.420 type of season while playing at least adequate D in LF. That's a pretty valuable player if you ask me... And Semien better learn how to play 3B and 2B at least adequately or he's going to have a hard time finding any playing time at all. I think he will be fine there playing against LH pitchers only though. There isn't anything that I'm aware of in his skill set that should keep him from being able to at least hold his own at 3B. He was a young guy playing a position he's unfamiliar with, errors are going to happen. I agree, and the following stats will illustrate just how consistently terrific Ethier has been vs. RH pitching, which after all is what hitters face most of the time: YEAR PA .AVG .OBP SLG BB SO 2008 441 .326 .392 .560 44 64 2009 498 .302 .390 .571 59 77 2010 407 .318 .396 .564 46 66 2011 400 .321 .410 .468 51 62 2012 379 .325 .398 .546 39 61 2013 393 .294 .394 .460 52 60 That is 6 consecutive years, in his prime, when Ethier was as consistently good as anyone facing RHP. Last year would appear to be an outlier and the reasons are well known. By contrast, Kemp has feasted on LH pitching most of his career. He is not nearly as consistently good vs. RHP. Add in the injury free history and character/leadership factors, as well as the cost, and it is easy to see why one might prefer Either to Kemp, who would provide more HR's, but that's about all. As he ages, he could use the rest vs LH starters, which would make him available as a pinch hitter off the bench, in the late innings vs RHP. Wouldn't that be a great asset to have?

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 07:06 AM) while it look as you worked hard on this, many thanks for sharing, but there is a problem or 2 in this. finding a 3 rd team with 1. salary room to absorb that big of a salary. 2. there are only getting Kemp for this trade 3. why would they want to do this. Team X would be exchanging a high salaried RH starter for a much needed RH middle of the order bat. After moving said pitcher, the addition of Kemp would not cost them a prohibitive amount on money. Seattle is a team that really needs and wants a big RH bat, however I don't think that they have a pitcher who matches the profile, in my scenario. Another alternative would be for the Sox to take a younger, inexpensive RH starter from Team X, and agree to send that team some cash to help them pay for Kemp's contract. I just think a scenario like this is better than trying to outbid teams for free agents, at extraordinary costs, while losing draft picks.

Could we change gears, for just a moment, on the Alexei to the Dodgers trade? What if the Sox went back to the original idea of acquiring Ethier, which was the more likely trade, before they got the left handed bat of LaRoche. We know that Ethier is not a good hitter vs. LH pitching. In fact, LaRoche's split stats aren't that great either. But they're tolerable. Therefore, that would make three guys who should sit vs. LH pitching, if you include Gillaspie. That's a problem, which would need to be addressed. However it would finally give the Sox a formidable lineup against RH pitching, which is after all, what they face the vast majority of the time. What percentage of good pitching, especially in our division is left handed? Hell, most of the good lefties are on the South Side! The Dodgers really have to break up their very crowded outfield, and it is believed that they prefer to move a couple of veterans. They may be motivated enough to include another player, with Ethier. I had originally thought about Schebler, but then I thought maybe the Sox could get a young, potential RH starter for the rotation. However, in looking at their organization, it doesn't appear that they have a surplus of RH pitching prospects. However, there might be a better solution. Maybe Hahn and Friedman could find a third team, which would take one of the other veteran Dodger outfielders, in exchange for a pitcher, whom L. A. could then include in the deal with the Sox. Who are the outfielders they most want moved? I would guess that the Dodgers view Van Slyke, Pederson and Puig as their preferred outfield, which means that Kemp, Ethier and Crawford are the guys they would like to move. Perhaps a deal for Kemp, which involved swapping another team's high salaried #2 or 3 starter, would net them the starter the Sox need. Although, in that scenario, the Sox would have to pick up an expensive contract, it might cost less than a free agent, and be for fewer years, as well as avoid the loss of a draft pick. Moreover, it could net the Sox an established, proven #2 or #3 RH starter. So, what team has a RH starting pitcher with a contract that we could afford to take, and needs a right handed, middle of the order bat, like Kemp, but would have to move salary, in order to afford him? I know that it gets complicated, but isn't that almost always the case, when a third team is involved in a trade? The reason such a scenario might be realistic is that the Dodgers need to move 2 expensive, veteran outfielders, and the Sox only need one. By trading one to the Sox and the other to Team X, the Dodgers might have a better chance. Of course, L. A. could simply do a separate trade with Team X, and keep the player who comes back to them in that trade. However, the Dodgers are really more interested in moving the two outfielders and their salaries, than they are in adding a relatively high priced pitcher. So, here is my fantasized trade scenario: Alexei to the Dodgers Ethier to the Sox Kemp to Team X Team X's RH Starter Y to Sox Team X also includes a player, whom the Dodgers want (I inadvertently left this element out of the trade) Such a deal could be feasible, providing the net cost of both Ethier and Starter Y were around the $25 Million per year, that the Sox appear willing to take on. That would, of course, be after dumping Alexei's $20 Million, over the next 2 years. The lineup vs. RHP would be terrific: Eaton CF LH Gillaspie 3B LH Abreu DH RH LaRoche 1B LH Garcia LF RH Ethier RF LH Flowers C RH SS ? Sanchez 2B Switch Hitter Then, the question would be, who do the Sox have to platoon with Gillaspie, and Ethier? Semien for Gillaspie has been discussed, but at the moment, the best candidate to spell Ethier would be Shuck. Yikes!!! Well, actually he has hit lefties pretty well, in his short career, even though he bats from the left side, himself. At any rate, my head hurts. Maybe one of you geniuses can come up with some actual names for Team X and Player Y.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 11:52 PM) Maybe we get Pablo now for 3B? Maybe not It's probably much more likely that Sandoval returns to the Giants, or signs with San Diego. That's fine with me. I wasn't enthused about giving him a big fee agent contract. Moreover, a left handed hitting third baseman is not one of our big needs, now with LaRoche. Gillaspie will be fine at 3B, if he improves his defense a little, and we let someone else take his place vs lefties.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 11:44 PM) I say keep alexei no one will over pay The consensus strategy has always been to only trade Alexei if some team "over pays". Although the Dodgers made Hanley Ramirez a qualifying offer, it seemed as though they never intended to have him play SS again. Therefore, his signing doesn't affect a potential deal with the Sox for Ramirez. It could however have some impact on other teams seeking a SS.

Thanks for the insight on Diaz.

Thanks. I do hope that is doesn't offend anyone. That is certainly not my intention.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 09:17 PM) And Diaz is not an acceptable major leaguer starter. Defense is obviously important from the SS position, but not at the complete expense of offense. Don't let some PCL stats fool you, there's a reason Diaz was a minor league free agent and not on a team's 40 man roster. Also, where Carlos Sanchez is better suited doesn't matter if the alternative is Diaz being our starting SS. And I'm not yet convinced that Semien can't be a passable major league SS defensively. He only played three games there for us last year, but it's still his natural position. The Sox played him at 3B & 2B a lot last year because they wanted a way to get his bat into the lineup. Yes, he struggled last year at those less familiar positions, but that's not unusual for a young player who is still learning but also trying to make an impression. IMO, it seems like certain posters are overreacting to his high error totals and automatically assuming he's a bad defensive player. I think it's way too early to jump to that conclusion. Perhaps you're right, but we don't know that much about Diaz yet, nor the intentions of the front office. Moreover, the Sox probably need Semien to platoon with Gillaspie at 3RD.

While we're all having fun with this discussion, it would be so much more helpful and interesting, if people would substantiate their arguments with some sort of evidence. It's one thing to read and quote a scouting report, or to site actual statistics. It's quite another to just reject, out of hand, a player simply because you've never read or heard, much less seen, anything about his actual performance capabilities. Case in point is this Diaz acquisition. I'm trying to ascertain how good, or bad, Diaz is defensively, and some people offer nothing more than snide comments about what a Joke, or disaster it would be if he were to actually be given playing time on the parent club. To label him a AAAA player, or an organizational fill in is nothing more than an off hand opinion, with nothing to support it. How do any of us know what the front office's motive is in acquiring a guy like Diaz? What is even more off putting than the lack of information to substantiate an opinion, is the condescending way that some people express those opinions. I don't mean to offend anyone, and there hasn't been anything really antagonistic in this thread, but it often does degenerate into personal insults and worse. I think most readers here know that it is not my style to try to belittle, or insult anyone. I understand that this is a common practice on the Internet. Let's hope that this stimulating discussion doesn't dissolve into that kind of discourse. In the meantime, if anyone really has any insight into the defensive prowess, or lack thereof, regarding Juan Diaz, please share it with us.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 09:00 PM) 100% agree. Maybe an infielder or two gets injured next year and Diaz becomes a reserve for us, but giving him a starting job!?! Wow is all I have to say. If the Sox lineup included Abreu, LaRoche and Kemp as the heart of the order, and Eaton, Gillaspie and A. Garcia as significant contributors, doesn't it seem reasonable to focus on good defense at SS? If you agree with that concept, then what exactly is the problem with Saladino, and or Diaz at SS, with Sanchez at second? Have you seen a scouting report that contradicts what I have read about him being a pretty capable defender, with a plus arm at SS? Note, his split stats suggest a potentially decent bat, at least vs. RH pitching.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 08:52 PM) Saladino vs. Diaz for the starting SS job?? Dude, it's not shaping up that way at all. Diaz was added for AAA depth, nothing more. Saladino projects as a useful utility guy once healthy. I seriously doubt Hahn considers either guy a starting caliber player. And I'd be completely shocked if Hahn preferred either guy as a temporary SS fill-in over Semien or Sanchez. In fact, if he's willing to deal Alexei after signing LaRoche, then I'm guessing he's confident one of Semien & Sanchez can handle the SS job. He's not going to give a AAAA player or a fringe prospect 600 plate appearances if they're trying to compete. And what track record are you referring to when you mention Semien's minor league SS defense? I'm just curious. Have you read the all of the recent posts in this thread? Sanchez is far better suited for 2ND, and the Sox will likely need him there, as Micah Johnson is not a Major League defensive second baseman. Semien is not an acceptable MLB defensive SS.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 08:30 PM) Trading Alexei, which is fine by me, will define Hahn, far more than the Peavy trade, the Abreu acquisition, the Rios dump. He's gotta be right on this one, and I think he will be. Meanwhile i can't stop obsessing over it. I can't either!!! It's so interesting, intriguing and fun, especially with someone else's money.

Both Saladino and Semien were much better vs LH pitching last season at AAA. Semien was also much better vs. LH pitching in his Big League at bats. Diaz was fine vs. RH pitching, last year at AAA: .316 AVG .338 OBP .483 SLG It wouldn't be a bad idea to consider platooning Diaz with Saladino at SS Semien could platoon with Gillaspie at 3RD. I'm starting to feel like the Sox could likely get by nicely by trading Alexei. In a couple of years Anderson and Rondon can compete for the SS position. (If Anderson doesn't stick at SS, the Sox might be able to move him to the outfield. Until then, if Saladino and Diaz can provide high enough quality defense, they won't need to do that much on offense, with Abreu, LaRoche and Kemp in the middle of the lineup. Trade Viciedo and his salary for another young bull pen arm. Alexei and Viciedo represent probably $14 Million, so the addition of Kemp costs $6.5 more net, for next year. Sign a RH starter, and maybe a closer, with the balance of the $20 to $25 Million, we speculate is available, which would be about $14 to $18 Million. Better yet, trade Danks for a slightly better RH starter, perhaps a #3, with a more expensive contract, on a team trying to reduce payroll. It would likely cost a few $Million more, but less than adding a free agent starter, and keeping Danks, plus losing a draft pick. It's the same strategy as the proposed Alexei for Kemp deal. You take on additional salary, but less by trading some salary, and you avoid losing a draft pick. So what team would like to shed salary, and has a RH starter, who is making more than Danks? Someone like Homer Bailey of the Reds might work, but not with quite that big of a contract.

Look at Diaz' splits last year, at AAA: http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?playe...ing/2014/MINORS That was very good production vs. RHP, for a SS. If he is a good defender, he should definitely be in the mix, if Alexei is traded.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 05:20 PM) Where did you see that at? Sorry, "Southsider2k5". Please read my post at the bottom of the same page (32).

I think that most of us agree that Semien, Sanchez and Johnson are all better suited at 2ND. In Semien's case 3RD may be where is most needed, as Gillaspie's platoon partner. That means that if Ramirez is traded, the competition for SS would likely be between Tyler Saladino, L. Garcia and Juan Diaz, not necessarily in that order. Of course there may be another acquisition.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) This is all speculation, but Diaz is 30 I think, had a brief stint in the majors a few years back..he's a AAA player. And we know that L Garcia can field the position so I don't see Diaz with any real chance. If Semien can handle the position defensively, fantastic. I thought Sanchez was a SS more than a 2B. Maybe I'm wrong there. Diaz will turn 26 next month. He has 15 at bats in the Big Leagues, in 2012. Sanchez is widely regarded as being much better suited for 2ND. His arm and his range, would not play nearly as well at SS.

This is the best info on his defense that I can find: http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/gett...-loving-gloves/ It's from last month and states: " has a plus arm he used to lead Pacific Coast League shortstops in assists (325), putouts (156) and double plays (70)".

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 04:35 PM) Zero chance. Last behind (in no particular order): Semien, Sanchez, Saladino, Garcia and other (stop gap filler from free agency). Or Diaz just replaces any other backup minor league infielders we may have lost to minor league free agency Do you know for a fact that Diaz is not a good defensive SS? I wish someone would find a scouting report on his defense. Does anyone subscribe to a paying service that has the scouting report?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) Diaz is a AAA shortstop. He was signed for Charlotte. As any sort of prospect to make the Major League team, he's behind 5 ML ready or near-ready Sox Middle infielders (Johnson, Semien, Saldino, Sanchez, L Garcia). L Garcia can field the position and that may have to do for a year. You may be entirely correct. Isn't the key to who would play SS, the defensive skill of the respective candidates? We know that among all of the young middle infield prospects, only L. Garcia is a really good fielding SS. Sanchez is much better suited for 2ND. Semien is more likely to platoon with Gillaspie, and is not a plus defensive SS. Saladino is ok, but may not be ready right out of the gate, due to his surgery. Johnson is only suited for 2ND, if he can even play well enough there. Again, I don't know how good Diaz is defensively. My preference would be to play the best defensive SS, unless another is significantly better offensively. After all, I was even suggesting the idea of using Rondon, entirely on the merits of his stellar defense.

The more important point is that the Sox are not likely acquiring more middle infielders, unless they intend to trade Alexei. That is an area where the organization already has a lot of young candidates.

It appears that the front office has addressed this need, and that Juan Diaz has now been added to the mix. Where would you think that he ranks as the most likely candidate to play SS, this season, if Alexei is traded?