Lillian

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 07:38 AM) If it were that easy, they could fix Gordon and Rios, too. 75% of it is confidence...his long swing and "slider speed bat" has always been there. Power hitters will never be comfortable choking up on the bat. Even singles hitters rarely choke up these days. And there's a larger issue. He's so far off the plate, he needs that bat length to reach the outer half. Now whether he should be so far off the plate...that's another issue altogether, but he obviously feels comfortable there compared to crowding the plate like Quentin does. I didn't say that "it was easy". I said; "it's obvious". The fact that players aren't "comfortable" doesn't invalidate the point. If you disagree, please explain where you think this analysis is wrong.

The physics of the swing are that the longer the arc of the swing, the longer it takes the bat to travel to and through the hitting zone. The length of the arc is determined in part by the length of the batter’s arms and the length of his bat. The longer his arms and his bat, the longer the arc. A tall player, with long arms, can reduce the length of the arc by choking up. Choking up also provides that added advantage of increasing the hitter’s control of the bat. A big strong guy like Dunn could choke up, reduce the length of the arc, increase his bat control, and still hit the ball a very long way. The greater number of times that a guy that big and strong can make contact, the greater the number of times a ball has a chance to leave the park. Why is this not obvious to baseball people? He should choke up, and then emulate Konerko’s short and quick swing.

When is the last time this happened to a franchise? I mean two key players going from good to absolutely horrible in the same season, without injuries? These are guys in their primes, with pretty good career numbers, who seem to have simply forgotten how to play the game. This has to be the most frustrating circumstance imagineable for them, management and the fans. It's one thing to lose a player to injury, but it's another altogether to suddenly lose two players to ineptitude. There's nothing unusual about a slump, and almost every player has them, sooner or later. But, can you call 4 months a slump?

The accountability issue is still the greatest concern for me. How can Rios still be on the field with his play and his attitude? The guy has a .244 OBP. How is that possible? De Aza has his second consecutive great season at AAA, gets called up, and hits a homer in his first game, a game in which practically no one else did anything offensively. The very next game Rios is back in CF and de Aza is on the bench, just because there was a LH starter for Boston. That is not my idea of accountability. I have no idea what the state of the Sox clubhouse is, but it probably isn't very good, and shouldn't be.

It won't be a disappointment to me if Quentin stays. I've always liked him, since the first time I saw him play in a Diamondbacks uniform vs. the Sox during Spring Training. The team could still become pretty good offensively with just a few in house changes. I'd love to see what the lineup would look like if de Aza led off and took over for Rios in CF. That would open a spot for Viciedo to replace Pierre in LF. That would only leave one hole in the lineup with Dunn at DH. I could be more optimistic about hoping for him to get back on track than I could ever be waiting for Pierre, Rios and Dunn to all get going. What is wrong with this lineup? CF de Aza SS Ramirez RF Quentin 1B Konerko DH Dunn Lf Viciedo C A. J. 2B Beckham 3B Morel When Vizquel plays vs some RH pitching, he bats in the 2 hole, and Ramirez moves down in the order Someone should DH for Dunn vs lefties. The point is that those changes could be better than any trades, and in this way the Sox wouldn't have to give up anyone except the guys we don't want, namely Pierre and Rios. Look, if you're not going to be able to unload Rios, just bench him and play someone who might perform. Who cares how much he's making? It doesn't add any significant payroll to play de Aza and Viciedo.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) RBI is a team dependent stat. The Astros have deployed some of the worst lineups in baseball for quite some time now. Carlos has a little more power. Not much more. And you're seriously underestimating the difference in their defensive abilities. You could legitimately argue that Pence is the best defensive RF in the game. And now that he's not stuck in the baseball abyss of suckage that is Houston, his skills will be more on display for everybody to see. You make two very good points. I frankly, did not know that Pence is such an outstanding defensive Right Fielder. In any case, Pence has been traded, and Quentin is now probably the best available impact bat outfielder available, if he is indeed being dangled out there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 08:40 AM) There is no way they will exercise that option. Alex Rios jaked his way out of Toronto, and is now jaking it in Chicago. I know some team out there probably thinks they could have the perfect situation for him, but they aren't going to take on his contract to find out. If the Sox want to rid themselves of Alex Rios, they are going to have to still pay him a lot of money. I agree with you about Quentin and Pence. If I had my choice, I'd take Quentin myself. Way more potential at huge numbers. You may be right about not being able to find any takers for Rios and his contract. If you are, I can't see the sense in giving up another player and still paying Rios a significant portion of his contract, just to get him off the team. I'd rather they just didn't play him, than pay him to play for another team. Could he be sent to the Minors?

In his 1,633 AB with the Sox, Quentin has hit 103 homers. That is one homer in every 15.85 at bats. Add in his RBI totals and I think most would concede that Carlos is a legitimate slugger. Pence is a consistent 25 HR per season hitter. He's not a slugger.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 08:35 AM) And Hunter Pence plays good D, better OBP, better average, and is good for around 25 HR and 80 RBI. The big problem being Q's health. If he were consistently healthy, we'd get whatever we want for him. Hunter Pence's career OBP is .339 Carlos Quentin career OBP is .348

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 08:25 AM) If Nate McLouth's agent can get him a contract like Rios', I need to bring him with me to next review. The Braves have a club option at $10.65 Million for next year. If they want to keep him, that is indeed what it will cost. After that, who knows? Of course, the Braves can tell Pence and his agent that they don't want to exercise the option, and would prefer to buy him out for $1.25 million.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 06:42 AM) That's a great concept, but KW demanding that would either be laughed at or hung up on or both. Considering Rios contract and what Quentin will get in arbitration next year, there aren't a lot of teams, if any, willing to take on that kind of cash, especially considering what reasonably expected production you could expect. I love him, butCQ has his warts, and Rios is a dog. Well, maybe it's more feasible than would appear at first glance. Remember, McLouth will be a free agent at the end of the season, and the Braves would have to spend almost as much in exercising the 2012 option for $10.65 Million, as the $12 million owed Rios next year. In the meantime, the Braves would have their defensive replacement for McClouth while he's on the DL. When he comes back they could platoon him with Rios. Next year, their outfield could be pretty good with Heyward, Rios and Quentin. With the offensive production from the corners, they could get buy with Rios is CF. Hey, if they want Quentin, make them pay. Take Rios' contract and give us one really good pitching prospect. Otherwise, go ahead and pursue Coco Crisp. I don't see how that would make the Braves competitive in the N. L East, do you? Quentin is an impact bat, and that is what they need. I respectfully disagree with the comparisons to Hunter Pence in this thread. Hunter Pence is no Carlos Quentin. When TCQ is healthy, he is a 40 HR hitter and a big run producer.

I don't follow the Braves, however it looks like they could use help in both CF and one of the corner OF spots. Why not trade them Quentin, and Rios, for some really decent young pitching and one position prospect? If they want Quentin, they have to take Rios, who might even flourish in the N. L. At least he could be as good Coco Crisp, with a lot more upside. I'd hate to lose TCQ, but if it meant unloading Rios, it might be worth it. Maybe we could then use the money saved by shedding the Rios contract to buy Carlos back when he becomes a free agent. In the meantime, the outfield for 2012 would be Milledge, de Aza and Viciedo, with de Aza leading off. That is unless they acquire someone else. I could live with that. Anything would be better than watching Rios, with his lazy play and unorthodox mechanics at the plate. God, watching that stance at the plate is just maddening!!

QUOTE (Paulie4Pres @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 11:02 PM) How does acquiring Rasmus make this team better? Now, or in the future. Maybe it's just me, but Rasmus reminds me an awful lot of Rios, who I absolutely HATE. One good season does not a great player make. That's all he's had. One good season. His first season was MEH. This season is MEH. Have Sox fans not learned a f***ing thing about overpaying for flash in the pan players? What do you do with Rios, if you make this trade? Who sits? Adding Rasmus and keeping Rios does nothing to improve this team. Adding Rasmus only improves this team if he doesn't turn out to be Rios PART 2. I don't do this trade unless they want JUST Jackson. Thornton and Jackson? No, sorry. Get bent. The biggest problem with this team is the garbage player we have in CF right now. Get rid of him, somehow, anyhow, and we improve immediately. BRIAN ANDERSON would be an upgrade in CF right now. How pathetic is that? I agree with this post, entirely. The best thing the Sox can do to improve the very serious predicament in which they find themselves, is to get rid of Rios. I would rather K. W. use the trading chips he possesses to unload Rios. If someone wants Jackson and Thornton badly enough, they should have to agree to take Rios. This is a case of addition by subtraction. We don't need Cobly Rasmus nearly as much as we need to get rid of Rios, and his contract. I'd be perfectly happy to see what an outfield of Viciedo, de Aza and Quentin could do, and remember that we still have Millidge, who seems to be coming on strong. Such a move would leave the team with just one big underperforming bad contract in Adam Dunn. He has had a long enough and consistent enough career to justify having a little faith in his ability to ultimately produce. Moreover, Dunn doesn't need to hit 40 homers next year in order to provide value. He is, after all, a left handed bat who can provide a presence in the middle of the line up, something the Sox have lacked since Thome left. I would be satisfied if next year he hit .250 with 30 homers and an OBP north of .375.

As most of you know, promoting de Aza is one of my long held wishes for this "sinking ship". In fact, it's become almost a mantra with me. Therefore I'm completely in agreement with this thread. Moreover, if de Aza can prove that he can play at the Major League level, it solves next year's void regarding a lead off hitter. His numbers vs RHP are really impressive, as they were last season. Who knows, maybe he could even impress enough to convince management to dump Pierre now, rather than waiting for his contract to expire. He can play CF, and that's another plus. It means that you could try to dump the Rios contract, and still have room for both de Aza and Viciedo. I'd personally love to see de Aza in CF, leading off, with Quentin and Viciedo at the corners.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 07:22 AM) I doubt it. The teams that usually take on money, Boston, is right up against the luxury tax and supposedly can't add payroll. The Yankees are over, so Rios contract would really cost them 150% of what they would be paying him. Thats about $19 million a year, plus if you want to keep Danks, he'll cost you the same or more. Due to sheer dollars, I don't think you could find a team who would take Rios or Dunn, if you just gave them John Danks to do so, much less give you anything for him, and certainly not for a 2 month rental of Edwin Jackson. The Sox are stuck with them. Hopefully, they will either come around, or Ozzie will move them down in the line up, or Ozzie will move them out of the line up, and if their performance ever improves to the point someone will take their contracts, KW needs to dump them immediately. Well, I guess it's hopeless, unless they wake up and start earning those contracts. Thanks for your thoughts, though futility never feels very good.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 07:05 AM) That could be the highest priority, but it would be a waste of time. No one is going to take the Dunn or Rios contracts off your hands. I understand, and I agree that no one will simply take the contracts. That was my point. Wouldn't some team be willing to take those contracts if they could acquire Danks or Jackson?

It seems that most of us agree that the highest priority should be to move the Rios and Dunn contracts. Neither of these guys appears to be good enough to justify their salaries, even if they should start to play a little better. Their contracts could cripple the organization for the next three years, and tie managements hands from making any further needed acquisitions. The only way you can trade such under achieving players is to include them in a deal with a player that some team really wants and needs. Looking to next year, perhaps they could now trade two different packages to a couple of contending teams. A National League team might have confidence that Dunn could produce up to his N.L. career numbers, playing 1B. If someone wants pitching and could use Dunn, trade Jackson and Dunn for a young pitching prospect. Then package Danks and Rios, and send them to a team needing a good LH starter. If they want Danks, who should be considered highly desirable, they have to agree to take Rios. This is addition by subtraction. Unloading the Rios and Dunn contracts would give the Sox a lot of payroll flexibility going into next year. We could afford to retain Quentin, and plug in de Aza in CF and Viciedo for the other corner outfield spot. With the money the Sox would save, they should be able to sign a good LH power bat to DH. That was the idea with Dunn, but I think that you have to realistically conclude that he is not the answer. Perhaps they could get even more back in those trades, however just unloading the Rios and Dunn salaries, without having to kick in any salary relief, would justify the moves, IMO. Is any of this realisitically feasible, and if so, which teams are the best candidates for such trades? And lastly, who would you target in the off season as a free agent LH power bat? Could Prince Fielder be affordable with all of the salary relief provided by these moves?

I hate to throw cold water on an upbeat post game thread, but Rios was O for 5 and left 7 men on base!!!!! If any team wants one of our pitchers, they'd better agree to take that Rios contract in the deal. I'm ready for a de Aza and Lillibridge platoon. And please, don't anyone dare post that "de Aza is not an everyday Major League hitter". How do you know? Based upon what, his 164 AB's, when he was 23? And, who says Alex Rios is? I'd be shocked if de Aza put up numbers any worse than Rios has. I'd take anywhere near de Aza's limited MLB production from last season over Rios, without even considering the money saved. For me, the question isn't whether I'd prefer de Aza to Rios. The question is; what GM would be dumb enough to take him and that contract? Besides K. W. Moreover, with de Aza in CF, you have your lead off hitter to replace Pierre. Then you have room for Viciedo. Please someone, take Rios and put us all out of our misery!!!

Something else that no one seems to be talking about is that Viciedo is killing RHP. Last year, when he was called up, he was given a lot of playing time vs. LHP. It appears that he may be even a better hitter against RHP.

I've been advocating Major League playing time for de Aza for the last year. He had a very good year last year, and is doing it again this season, especially of late. Look at his numbers versus RHP. He's hitting .338 with a .400 OBP and a .560 Slugging %. I think he had an OBP of about .420 vs. RHP last season. It's not fair to say that he couldn't be productive at the Major League level. He's really not had a chance to prove whether or not he is a Big Leaguer. He's only had 50 Major League at bats over the last 3 seasons. Even then, he was productive in his very limited playing time last year for the Sox, batting .300. He plays very good defense, and can steal a base. What's not to like? If they could dump that Rios contract, I'd love to see him get a shot at playing CF and leading off.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 06:31 AM) Lillibridge and De Aza are not everyday Major League center fielders. I'm not so sure that is a fair or accurate assessment. I, for one, would love to find out. Why not give them a chance?

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 05:55 AM) Rios is obviously dis-interested and dogging it this year. I've never seen a guy making about 15 mill look so unhappy. I tried to like Rios and thought he was avictim of bad luck because he was hitting the ball right at people. But it sure does look like he has shut it down. Would this be a feasible trade? Sox pick up a good chunk of Rios's salary and ship him and Danks to StL. for Rasmus. Am I under-valueing Danks and over-valueing Rasmus? Or both the Danks for Rasmus and just DFA Rios. The next few years an OF of Rasmus, Q, and Viciedo sounds good to me. Toronto got someone to bite on Vernon Wells contract, maybe the Sox can find a taker for Rios. I don't think the Sox need to acquire a center fielder. They could use either De Aza or Lillibridge, or platoon them. Both of them would also provide an alternative to the Pierre problem at lead off. That paves the way for Viciedo in LF. They just need to get rid of Rios. The Sox took the Rios contract without giving up anyone. If they can find someone to take him, even if they have to throw in a little salary relief, it would be worth it. I wouldn't want to weaken the pitching as that is likely what will carry the Sox to Post Season play, if they are to have any chance of playing in October. The Sox have other options in house. This is one of those "addition by subtraction" problems. Get rid of any or all of Pierre, Rios and Dunn, and the black holes they represent in the lineup, and instantly you have a better offensive team, no matter who you put in their place. And the salary relief would give you a chance to try something else next season, or even pick up a producer from an out of contention team, looking to dump salary later in the season.

If service time is indeed the reason that Viciedo has not been brought up, why couldn't they have made the move earlier, and simply planned to send him back down later in the season, if the team didn't have a realistic shot at post season play? If the Sox were in contention, and Viciedo had been contributing significantly, that would have justified the cost of one year of service time. If not, they could have still avoided the adverse service time consequence by simply returning him to Charlotte. I understand that they would have had to use one of his options, but that shouldn't be an issue with Viciedo. Once he comes to the Big Leagues, he shouldn't need to be sent back down very often.

The great intangible positive with Lillibridge is his heart. This guy is like Notre Dame's Rudy. You would have to think that his hustle and determination would light a fire under some of the other guys. He's the classic over-achiever. Of course, he can't possibly keep up this pace. After all, he isn't really going to hit .300 with over 50 homers. Nevertheless, he is putting guys like Dunn and Rios to shame. They have to be embarrassed to begin with, but Lilliibridge is making them look even worse. In his very limited playing time, he's already made twice as many really great, all out effort, plays in the outfield as any other full time outfielder on this squad. What an inspiration!! He's becomming my favorite player. How can you not love a guy like that?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2011 -> 06:31 AM) Rios had his hands higher up in 2009 when he was having a terrible season with the Blue Jays/White Sox. He lowered his hands last year and suddenly refound his stroke. You're probably correct. I don't remember how he used to bat. In any case, It looks like a terrible way to hit. He better change something, because whatever he's doing, isn't working.