Lillian

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 26, 2018 -> 04:28 PM) He shouldnt have an issue coming back. As a 3B not relying on speed his demands are different. His body type is a concern but he should be fine in about 6-8 months. NFL players come back from it, he can as well. Its not going to be a fun rehab. Thanks for the optimistic note. Coming from you, it means a lot. I'm a little more hopeful, even if it takes a while.

If it is a torn achilles tendon, it's hard to imagine that Burger could be ready to contribute at the Major League level, until 2021, or later. He is going to turn 22 in April and was not projected to be called up until 2020. This injury could very well set him back a couple of years. Signing someone to a 5 year free agent contract would now seem more plausible. This obviously makes our discussion regarding the acquisition of Moustakas, Machado, Arenado etc., more relevant.

I mentioned this several weeks ago, but I question whether Machado would really be worth what he is likely to get paid. The argument is that his OBP is not, nor has it ever been, so far in his career, at a level that justifies $35 Million per year, on a 10 year contract. He is very young, so he may improve his OBP this season, which could change the equation. Guys like Miguel Cabrera, Bryce Harper, Joey Votto and Mike Trout have had OBP's of .400 plus, since their early 20's. Machado has yet to demonstrate the ability to do that. Something else, which no one ever mentions is that a player who gets paid that much money could have an adverse effect upon the rest of the team. It's only natural for players to compare themselves to other players, in terms of their own production and what they get paid. That becomes most important, when it comes time to negotiate a new contract. If a team is going to pay one player that much more than any of the rest of its roster, he better demonstrate that he deserves it. We are all entitled to our opinion, and if you disagree, please consider these thoughts just things to think about. I could be persuaded to change my opinion, but that's just my perspective. Hey, when a team is considering spending that kind of money, it behooves them to think about everything.

Basabe is probably pronounced Bah sah bay. The first person, singular imperfect conjugation of the verb Basar, is basaba, which is pronounced; bah-sah-bah. The only difference in his name is the 'e' ending, which is always pronounced like a long 'A' or 'ay'. So, it should be bah-sah-bay. I'm sending this message from my winter home in Costa Rica, where I have spent at least 1/2 of each year, for the last 28 years. That's how my Costa Rican friends would pronounce it.

If the Sox miss out on the Manny Machado "sweepstakes," and he signs with the Yankees, what about trying to acquire one of their promising third base prospects? N.Y. could have a log jam, on the left side of their infield. Might Glyber Torres, or Andujar be worth pursuing, in a trade?.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 10:55 AM) Where did anyone get the idea that 2019 was part of the window? The only way this team is even competing for a WC spot in 2019 is with a mega signing like Machado, which is why signing Moustakas now makes no sense. The starting staff, in 2019 could well be; 1 Kopech 2 Rodon 3 Giolito 4 Hansen 5 Lopez/Cease/Dunning/Fulmer, Clarkin or several others Bullpen: The 2 to 4 starters, who don't make the starting staff Jones Avilan Burdi Possible acquisition The Lineup could be: Moncada Avi Abreu Insert your favorite acquisition, or 2 Eloy Anderson Castillo CF? Whoever wins the job of holding down the position, until Robert arrives Then there is always the possibility that youngsters like Delmonico, Collins, Davidson and Gillaspie emerge as legitimate contributors That looks to me, like it has a realistic potential to begin the competitive window, in 2019.

Why not 5 years, at $12 Million per year? That would cover his age 29, through 33, seasons. That's still mostly within the normal prime, and 4 of those 5 years are within the anticipated window of contention, for this rebuilt team. It's hard to imagine that the Sox couldn't use his LH bat, somewhere even if it were as a DH.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:53 PM) I’m not trying to make things personal, but you said “They need a respectable left handed bat, more than they need a top 5 player.” That’s what sent me into a frenzy. If you think it’s not wise to commit $30M+ a year that’s a different argument altogether (although I still wouldn’t agree), but your initial statements never really suggested that. It really came off like you were arguing fit over production. I know others feel the same way based on posts in this thread. Perhaps, if you put that quote in its context, you will have a different interpretation. Here is the entire quote again: "I agree with Caulfield. If this rebuild goes right, the Sox will have a lot of really good players, at most of the key positions. They need a respectable left handed bat, more than they need a top 5 player. No team has All Stars at every position. Not that Moustakas couldn't be an All Star again. You add his bat and Eloy's, in 2019 and this team could be very competitive, if the pitching is ready. Then you have that future outfield of Eloy, Robert, Adolfo and Rutherford or Basabe, all ready to take over, in 2020 or 2021, if you trade Avi. Again, I don't see the need to spend $350 Million, or more, on Machado." My point was quite clear. I was asserting that they will have their share of stars, if the rebuild goes right. That would reduce the need to spend $350 million, or more, on a top 5 player. Again, context matters. If they lacked star players, it would be much more important to sign one, or two. However, if the lineup were loaded with real studs, that need would be greatly reduced. Focusing on my assertion that they really need a left handed bat, let me articulate it this way; Assuming that the lineup consisted of the following VERY PRODUCTIVE (star) players; Moncada, Avi, Abreu, Eloy, Castillo and Anderson and the front office still wanted to spend $350 million, or more on one more player, I would prefer Harper, to Machado, and yes, he would better balance the lineup, which would otherwise be very heavily weighted with right handed hitters.

It isn't productive to make these arguments personal, so I'll simply quote the posts, which I have made regarding this issue of Machado, versus Moustakas, as a potential free agent acquisition. I hope that this will further clarify my position, and that we can move on to other points. I have bolded the central point, which is that money is a significant consideration, and that while I recognize that Machado is the better player, I'm skeptical that he would be worth the enormous cost: 2/21 Just to clarify: I certainly do not think that Moustakas is a better player than Machado. However, I'm not sure that Machado is a better value, at $35 Million, per year, than Moustakas, at $12 Million per year. Those numbers are merely speculation, but they illustrate my point. Yesterday 8:09 pm I agree with Caulfield. If this rebuild goes right, the Sox will have a lot of really good players, at most of the key positions. They need a respectable left handed bat, more than they need a top 5 player. No team has All Stars at every position. Not that Moustakas couldn't be an All Star again. You add his bat and Eloy's, in 2019 and this team could be very competitive, if the pitching is ready. Then you have that future outfield of Eloy, Robert, Adolfo and Rutherford or Basabe, all ready to take over, in 2020 or 2021, if you trade Avi. Again, I don't see the need to spend $350 Million, or more, on Machado. Yesterday 9:22 pm Donaldson will be too old. Machado and Arenado will be too expensive. Sure, if ownership wants to spend the money, I'm certainly not going to complain and of course, they are better players, than Moustakas. However, that doesn't seem realistic, to me. Moreover, it would be nice to extend some of the young stars, rather than have to let a bunch of them go, when they hit free agency. They might not have that financial flexibility, if they spend $35 Million per year on a third baseman. Why is that "mind-boggling"? I do agree that giving up the draft pick is a big negative. Today 8:09 am To be more precise; I would prefer the left handed bat at $12 Million, for 5 years, to the Super Star right handed hitter, at $35 Million, for 10 years. That preference stems from the fact that we already have several potential Super Stars, and all but one of them, hit right handed. If you take the money out of the equation, of course I would prefer Machado, to Moustakas. Today 8:52 am I don't understand why some of you continue to completely ignore the issue of money. If you read what I just posted, I clearly stated the difference in the cost, as being a critical component of my preference. I said; "If you take the money out of the equation, of course I would prefer Machado, to Moustakas". Ignoring money might be excused, when talking about a few dollars, but not when it involves hundreds of millions of dollars.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:19 AM) Honestly this is sillier than you wanting Grady Sizemore batting cleanup for what seemed like 3 straight years that he didn’t play ball for anyone. Forgoing a superstar player simply because he hits right handed is more than mind boggling I don't understand why some of you continue to completely ignore the issue of money. If you read what I just posted, I clearly stated the difference in the cost, as being a critical component of my preference. I said; "If you take the money out of the equation, of course I would prefer Machado, to Moustakas". Ignoring money might be excused, when talking about a few dollars, but not when it involves hundreds of millions of dollars.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 22, 2018 -> 09:09 PM) This is absolutely mind-boggling to me. You’d actually pass a significantly better player because of a desire to have a more balance lineup in terms of handedness. You realize that Machado & Donaldson are just as good against RHP (if not better) than Moustakas is right? But they bring much overall ability to the table. Regardless, focusing on building the most perfectly balanced lineup this early into a rebuild is a dangerous game. The goal first & foremost should be talent accumulation (preferably impact talent) and worrying about it all fits together later on. To be more precise; I would prefer the left handed bat at $12 Million, for 5 years, to the Super Star right handed hitter, at $35 Million, for 10 years. That preference stems from the fact that we already have several potential Super Stars, and all but one of them, hit right handed. If you take the money out of the equation, of course I would prefer Machado, to Moustakas.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 22, 2018 -> 09:09 PM) This is absolutely mind-boggling to me. You’d actually pass a significantly better player because of a desire to have a more balance lineup in terms of handedness. You realize that Machado & Donaldson are just as good against RHP (if not better) than Moustakas is right? But they bring much overall ability to the table. Regardless, focusing on building the most perfectly balanced lineup this early into a rebuild is a dangerous game. The goal first & foremost should be talent accumulation (preferably impact talent) and worrying about it all fits together later on. Donaldson will be too old. Machado and Arenado will be too expensive. Sure, if ownership wants to spend the money, I'm certainly not going to complain and of course, they are better players, than Moustakas. However, that doesn't seem realistic, to me. Moreover, it would be nice to extend some of the young stars, rather than have to let a bunch of them go, when they hit free agency. They might not have that financial flexibility, if they spend $35 Million per year on a third baseman. Why is that "mind-boggling"? I do agree that giving up the draft pick is a big negative.

I agree with Caulfield. If this rebuild goes right, the Sox will have a lot of really good players, at most of the key positions. They need a respectable left handed bat, more than they need a top 5 player. No team has All Stars at every position. Not that Moustakas couldn't be an All Star again. You add his bat and Eloy's, in 2019 and this team could be very competitive, if the pitching is ready. Then you have that future outfield of Eloy, Robert, Adolfo and Rutherford or Basabe, all ready to take over, in 2020 or 2021, if you trade Avi. Again, I don't see the need to spend $350 Million, or more, on Machado.

This might provide an explanation for the terrible .188 AVG. in July, during his All Star 2015 season: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...le36249930.html He took family leave twice, in the period leading up to his mother's loosing battle with cancer. She passed away the month following his poor July, on August 9TH.

Regarding this argument that it is not meaningful to evaluate stats, if any portion is excluded: When you have consistent statistical data, with a short period, which is significantly divergent, I think that it's fair to consider that data as an aberration. It's a long season. If a hitter hit .300 every month, but one, in which he hit .200, what would you conclude? Going forward, would you anticipate that he would hit around .300 .200, or the average of his entire season? I would interpret that data as indicative of a .300 hitter, who had a really bad month. The question then becomes, what caused that aberration? Was he hurt, or was it attributed to something else? To put it another way, I would take that good production in 5 of the 6 months, and hope that the rest of the team could pick up the slack, during that one bad month, if it should recur. The more consistent the production, and the greater the divergence of the one exception, the less significance one could reasonably attach to that aberration.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 22, 2018 -> 08:25 AM) Every player looks good if you remove all the times when they are bad. Try doing that with Todd Frazier, since coming to the A. L. Last year's monthly batting averages: .183 .185 .261 .192 .221 .225. Which month would you like to take out? His one month of statistical aberration is the .261, not the 5 other months, hovering around the "Mendoza line".

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 22, 2018 -> 07:01 AM) What do you mean “month by month stats”? And I wasn’t arguing that Frazier was a better hitter. My point was that Frazier has the better track record and is coming off a comparable season (if not better) to Moose. The market deemed Todd to be worth 2/$17M. Sure, Moose deserves more money than Todd for several reasons (age being a major factor), but the question is how much more? Throw in losing a draft pick and I just don’t see Moustakas at a 5/$70M deal or so being such a steal. The fact no one has snagged him up yet is telling IMO. I have always found it useful to look at each month's production, in order to attempt to better assess a player's performance. For example; a hitter might be very productive, with the exception of one very bad month. Whether due to injury, extremely tough pitching, bad luck, or just a plain old slump, that month could significantly affect his overall season stats. Looking at Moustakas' month by month production, over the last 3 seasons, will reveal a pretty consistently good hitter, with power and a relatively low strike out rate. Take 2015, for example; Here are his month, by month AVG's: .356 .282 .299 .188 .281 .291. If you throw out that .188 in July, he was a pretty solid hitter. 2016 was a lost season, due to injury. However, he was fine, for the brief time that he played. So, looking at all of 2015 and last year, and taking out his worst month, in each of those years, his stats are generally pretty good. They aren't overwhelming, but they are good enough to represent a left handed presence, sandwiched somewhere between the heavily weighted right handed, middle of the order hitters. I hope that clarifies my point.

If you look at Moustakas' month, by month stats, over the last 3 years, you might decide that he is a better hitter than Todd Frazier has been, since coming to the A.L.

Just to clarify: I certainly do not think that Moustakas is a better player than Machado. However, I'm not sure that Machado is a better value, at $35 Million, per year, than Moustakas, at $12 Million per year. Those numbers are merely speculation, but they illustrate my point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 09:42 AM) That would be a 55 team WAR if multiplied by 25. If that is what 25 average players gets you, let's get 25 average players. According to fangraphs, his wRC+ was 62nd. That's top 2 or 3 on a team. Yolmer Sanchez was 107. So by your post, Yolmer isn't the answer.. Manny Machado wasn't as good offensively as Moustakas last year. I am sure most of us will be doing cartwheels if the Sox give him $300 million plus in the next 10 months. I was just looking at Machado's split stats, as you posted this. Not only was his year not as productive as Moustakas', but he only hit 11 HR's, on the road, compared to Moose's 24. Baltimore is a much better park, in which to hit homers, than Kauffman Stadium. I suspect that Moustakas would put up some pretty good numbers, in Chicago.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 06:51 PM) Does he still get to face WSox pitching? Well, his 6 homers, in 17 games, is very consistent with his overall road stats. He hit approximately one HR, per every 3 games played.

No one has commented on the fact that Moustakas had 24 HR's, in just 74 road games. KC is known as a park that is not conducive to the long ball. What would you expect him to hit, at Guaranteed Rate Field?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 05:35 PM) Neither does Moustakas. He's a lefty, yes, but if he's in the middle of our lineup in 2020, that means it isn't a playoff-caliber lineup. Well, that's an interesting perspective. So, you don't think that a line, like his last year, would be adequate, sandwiched in between say Abreu and Jimenez, who would follow Moncada and Avi?

QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 05:23 PM) Yeah if the Sox didn't have Yolmer Mous could make sense. I'd prefer Yolmer I love Yolmer. He's one of my favorite players. However, he does not fill the void, upon which I'm focusing.

If the top of the 2019 order is Moncada, Avi, Abreu and Eloy, and they perform up to expectations, I don't see the need to spend big, on another right handed bat. They may even get significant contributions from Anderson and Castillo, two more RH hitters. My argument is that they need a productive LH bat, more than they need a super star, right handed hitter. Maybe Collins, Gillaspie and, or Delmonico, will provide that LH presence, but I have my doubts as to whether any of them will become a clean up, or #5 hitter, in the order, on a contending Sox team. That is why I continue to argue for guys like Moustakas or Morrison.