Lillian

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 21, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) It's obviously a bargain, but still hurts the White Sox, so no. Any contender would and should do that. It is hard to argue against this point. As has been stated many times, in this thread; the Sox would be trading for a meaningless one season of Machado. That is dramatically different than the same proposition for a team, vying for a Championship. It makes no sense to give up valuable future assets, just for, what amounts to negotiating rights to a, soon to be, free agent. Under different circumstances, it might be worth giving up Cease and Fulmer. However, under these circumstances, it is not.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 20, 2017 -> 10:49 AM) Not sure why but have a feeling all these offers were low Have a feeling Giolito and Adams were all that was offered (hate to lose Gio) Time for JR and Hahn to work on an offseason pitch What gives you the "feeling" that Giolito was included? I really doubt that.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 07:41 PM) Common response from Orioles fan is that he had a "slow start". Lots of people are ok with it, but this slow start was really about 3 months, or half of the entire season. You have posters trying to DFA Abreu for a similar stint over 3 weeks, so I hope it wouldn't become a chronic issue with Machado if he played here. In addition to his "slow start," last season, he also had an unimpressive second half, the year before: .266 AVG and a .306 OBP. in 320 plate appearances. He's still very young, which could explain the inconsistencies, but it's worth noting.

Looking at the big picture, do we really need Machado? If the Sox extend Avi and Abreu, the lineup would be fine by the beginning of their contention window: VERSUS RHP 2B Moncada 3B Sanchez RF Avi DH Abreu 1B ?LH Hitter? LF Eloy C Castillo CF Leury/Engel/Cordell SS Anderson What is missing is that elusive LH middle of the order bat, which I always complain about. If no one emerges out of the current roster (Gillaspie, Delmonico), it shouldn't be that hard to sign a free agent, to either DH or play first base, and it shouldn't cost $350 to $400 million. The focus should continue to be on the pitching, which has the potential to be exceptional: Rodon Kopech Giolito Hansen Cease Lopez Fix the bullpen and they should be fine. There could even be enough internal options, by 2019, such as Fulmer, Dunning, Burdi, Clarkin, Adams, Stephens and Vieira. If not, that might be a better place to spend some money. Giving up a couple of Major League ready starters, to acquire one year of Machado, still makes little sense, to me. I'd rather gamble on extending Avi, than spend $17 million and a couple good prospects, for one year of Machado and the pipe dream, that he would sign with the Sox.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 11:57 AM) Fulmer & one of Adams/Stephens for Machado would be the dream deal as it would leave us with all our high pitching prospects. Plus if we end up losing him in free agency, we’d get a comp pick that would greatly offset the overall cost. I just can’t see the Orioles doing that deal though. I think the best offer for us that maybe they’d accept would be Cease & Fulmer. Again, that would not be consistent with Hahn's assurances. That doesn't mean that it couldn't happen, but it would surprise and disappoint this fan.

If reports that the Orioles want a couple of Major League ready pitchers, are true, Cease doesn't qualify. He isn't expected to arrive until 2019. Moreover, he is MLB Pipeline's 5TH ranked Sox prospect, which would not be consistent with Hahn's repeated assurances that "nothing has changed in terms of what we are trying to accomplish. We're very interested in adding premium young talent to what we've already built, but at the same time we're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul, if that makes sense. We are headed towards a bright future. We want to make moves that are going to enhance that, not necessarily take away from it." Therefore, I don't see Hahn letting Cease go. It seems more likely that something like 2 of the following might work: Fulmer, Stevens or Adams. Even then, I would be reluctant to include Fulmer.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 04:18 PM) Everyone is in agreement the Sox will have to offer a similar contract to the contracts offered even if they traded for him and he loved the culture. How about this. The Sox would have to pay him about $17 million in 2018 to show them how nice they are. Save that money, put it in the bank or buy some bitcoin futures with it, next offseason offer him the same contract as the other teams, yet add a $17 million bonus to year one. You save prospects, and money as you will make some interest, and you have an offer that can't be refused. Cano took the most money, but even if the Sox offered the same next offseason, if they traded for him, they ultimately would have paid much more. His salary during a rebuilding season, and prospects. Just offer him more money than anyone else, in a way he can't say no. Your idea makes sense to me. Are we missing something?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2017 -> 09:14 AM) Besides NY based loudmouths, who says Machado wants to be a Yankee? And what are the loudmouths sources? I have no idea.

Some of you may find this interesting: The point that I found most interesting is this; Since Machado wants to ultimately end up on the Yankees, why wouldn't Baltimore try to at least remove a good prospect, or 2, from New York's future roster?

Being able to gauge Machado's values and preferences, regarding for what city and team, he would like to play, would certainly help here. If the suggestion that he really wants to play for the Yankees has any validity, this whole strategy is folly. In the absence of some suggestion that he would be open to playing on the South Side, giving up anyone, who is considered part of the organization's future, for a one year rental, would be foolish.

I'm just wondering how many on this board really want to pay him $35 million per year, through his age 36 season. Personally, that notion doesn't sound very appealing to me, even if it isn't my money. But seriously, is it really necessary? Remember, if they signed him, they could still need to shell out another big contract, for a middle of the order, left handed bat. You all know that I want Moncada as a dynamic lead off hitter. That means that the organization will still lack the balance, provided by a potent left handed bat. Unless you have confidence that Collins will be that guy, who is going to fill that role? I guess that I might be a little more enthused, if Machado hit left handed, but not much more. Paying $35 million per year, to one guy on a 25 man roster, is just something that is awfully hard for me to get used to. I know that he started very young, but it's also hard to justify paying $350 million, for that lifetime .329 OBP. He is not the kind of hitter that Miguel Cabrera has been, or that Joey Votto still is.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:29 AM) Can Baltimore put something in the trade language that says if he's traded to the Yankees, the White Sox then have to forfeit another pre-agreed upon player? Obviously players can sign contracts saying they can't be traded to another team, but can teams do the same type of arrangement? This relevant quote, from an article on MLBTraderumors.com, may provide some insight: "The Sox are apparently willing to address Angelos’ concerns, as Nightengale writes that “if the Orioles even wanted it in writing that they’d keep him around until at least mid-summer,” Chicago would be fine with that assurance. This would be quite an unusual type of trade provisio, of course, and one that Angelos may still not be fine with if he wants to eliminate any chance of Machado wearing Yankee pinstripes in 2018."

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:54 PM) Well, I don't think I've ever said this on a message board: but it's not my money. Getting Machado wrapped up for 300 million ($30m x 10, boom done) with this young core (minus Gio granted) would have be over the moon excited. Machado is a proven 5 war player. Yea there is some risk in signing him but it's one some team is going to take and if it's the Sox, well f*** me I love it. I wasn't being critical of the suggested acquisition. My comment was only meant to clarify what it would actually entail.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:40 PM) says "likely" which seems kinda a silly hedge to me if you're tweeting about it. Pick a side. I'd offer Gio. JR has blessed this move, and he wouldn't bless it if he didn't think they had a shot to resign him. Gio is worth a shot IMO. (You turned Adam Eaton into Lopez, Machado and Dunning!) And getting Machado is going to put some butts in the seats and eyes on the TVs. More accurately; "You turned Adam Eaton and $300 + Million into Lopez, Machado and Dunning"

If Machado were acquired and then extended, rather than signed as a free agent, after having been offered a "qualifying offer," by his 2018 team, doesn't that eliminate the loss of a Draft pick, for the team which signs him? If so, isn't that a consideration?

There is such a wide disparity about expectations for Avi, going forward. Wouldn't it be interesting to conduct a poll, in which everyone could offer their own projections, regarding what kind of year they expect Avi to have? Irrespective of whether, or not, he's traded, I'd just love to see how close some of us might end up being. Maybe more interesting; how far off some of us might be.

Just curious: How much do you think JBJ would cost, if he were a free agent? Same question for Abreu.

Aren't the Red Sox more desperate for a bat, such as Abreu's, now that their chief rival has acquired Stanton?

Castillo will almost certainly get most of the playing time, behind the plate. They are not going to limit his use just against LHP, as well they shouldn't. His split stats are not that one sided. At this point, we should assume that Narvaez is the backup.

If it's true that Hahn needs to be "overwhelmed, in order to trade Abreu," Flaherty and Sierra is hardly "overwhelming".

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 11:07 AM) Which deal would be a disappointment? Flaherty and Sierra.

That deal would really be a disappointment, for me. Very underwhelming. I'll bet that doesn't get it done.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 30, 2017 -> 10:21 AM) I’d give Abreu something like 4/$80M with a 5th year team option and call it a day. He can anchor the middle of the lineup for a big chunk of our window, serve as mentor for Moncada, Robert, & other young LatAm players, improve our sales pitch to free agents next offseason, & further establish our status as the team to sign with for future Cuban amateurs (which becomes important with capped spending). All those factors combined make him worth more to us than other teams IMO. That would be fantastic for management, but what would the benefit be to Abreu? That represents $20M per year, which is not much more than he will get through arbitration, for the last 2 years of his pre-eligibility for free agency. I would guess that it would take at least $25M per year, starting this next season and covering 5 seasons total. That would not be a bad deal for the Sox. It avoids a huge long term commitment, and only obligates them through his age 35 season. Do you think that management could live with that? I wouldn't discount the possibility that all of this trade talk is posturing, in an effort to motivate Jose to sign such an extension.

I'm sorry, but I misspoke. I was thinking that the Sox would control both Avi and Abreu until after the 2020 season. I now realize that they are only under control until the end of 2019. That does change my perspective. However, I would prefer to see them both extended, if it can be accomplished at a reasonable price, without too long of a commitment.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 24, 2017 -> 11:53 AM) If we trade both of these guys, it is pretty well sealed that we are looking at 2020 or 2021 to make the playoffs. You are probably right about that, and I think that would be a mistake. This team should be ready by 2019.