Lillian

Yes, but "ReyLo" translates to "King Lo". How do you like that?

OK, so putting aside the "grade," can we agree that Engel has tremendous speed, better than Hanson and perhaps best on the Sox?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:44 PM) I don't recall FS ever giving him an 80 grade. Link? No, it was MLB Pipeline that graded his speed 80. Future Sox does not normally publish grades, but again, here is what they say: "Engel has true plus-plus speed".

Here you go, Gentlemen: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/242451240/al...g-speed-to-sox/

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) I read the quote and then put holes into it. Adam Engel is NOT as fast as Billy Hamilton. No way. I don't think he is even the fasted guy on his own team. That belongs to either Hansen or Moncada. That makes three guys who are clearly above Engel, which makes it impossible for me to call him an 80. So, am I to assume that MLB Pipeline and FutureSox are not reasonably accurate sources for such grades? What would be a better source, without having to pay for a subscription?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) Sure. But if you can point out multiple players who are faster, you can't call him an 80... just by definition. Let me put it this way, Billy Hamilton is an 80 speed. Do you see Adam Engel as that fast? I have not seen a single report that puts him into that category. Yoan Moncada and Alen Hansen are probably 70-75's. Would you put Engel in those categories? I wouldn't. To me that means he can be rated the same as any of those guys. Perhaps you didn't read the entire quote. MLB Pipeline rated his speed as 80, last year. Who am I to argue with MLB Pipeline? They currently rate Moncada's speed a 65, which I admit seems a little low.

Here is what MLB had to say about him, last year, in their Pipeline assessments, which rated his speed as 80: Engel was one of the best athletes and biggest enigmas in the 2013 Draft, which is why he lasted 19 rounds and signed for $100,000. He batted just .265 with two homers in three years at Louisville and provided inconsistent production in his first three pro seasons. He led the Class A Advanced Carolina League with 90 runs and 65 steals last year, but also topped the circuit with 132 strikeouts and posted just a .704 OPS at age 23. But Engel made adjustments in the second half and flourished in the Arizona Fall League, winning MVP honors while pacing the prospect showcase in batting (.403), on-base percentage (.536) and slugging (.642). Though AFL statistics must be taken with a grain of salt, his right-handed swing was much smoother and his rhythm and timing were much improved. He seemed to recognize pitches better and was able to stay back on balls and drive them more consistently. Engel never has lacked for strength or bat speed, and if he can become even an average hitter with average power he can make a huge impact at the big league level. His top-of-the-line speed makes him a disruptive force on the bases and a defensive asset in center field, where he shows fine instincts. Even if his AFL performance was a mirage, his tools should allow him to contribute as a fourth outfielder.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) I would put say that Moncada and Hansen are probably faster. I think Engel probably rates more of a 65 or 70 after seeing him in action. Oh yes, I forgot about Hanson. He is very fast. Aren't you impressed with Engel's speed, running to first? He looks awfully fast to me.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 02:56 PM) Looking at his D numbers now, they have all gone positive except for a small negative to his arm. If you drop down to his Inside Edge numbers, you can see where his range comes into play. He has made 100% of plays in the routine range (90-100% prob) 100% in the likely range (60-90%), 80% in the even range (40-60%), and 33% in the unlikely (10-40%) and even 6.3% of the remote plays (1-10% chance). He is either above or at the top end of each of those ranges. That means he is likely getting good reads and routes, because Engel is not a guy with 80 speed to make up for bad reads and routes. Obviously we are still in SSS range, but the early numbers are very positive. Interesting stats. Thanks. Regarding his speed, who on the Sox has more speed than Engel? I would guess that perhaps Anderson and Moncada possess Engel's speed, but I doubt that they are faster.

Since I'n the one who started this thread, please allow me to clarify my intent. Adam Engel is not a "one tool" player, and he is intriguing because he has elite defensive skills and tools, for an important defensive position. Of course, it's the "if" that is problematic, and I agree that you could say that about any player; "if Davidson were an elite defender, with great speed, a great batting eye, terrific contact skills and a great baseball acumen, to go along with his considerable power, wouldn't he be something?". However, it is not necessary to stretch the imagination, in order to see Engel's realistic potential. He is really only lacking in one critical skill; he does not make consistent contact. We don't know what the cause is. Is he swinging at bad pitches, is it his approach, or bad mechanics? He has power and elite speed and athleticism, do go along with his stellar defense, but obviously he has got to figure out how to become a productive, or at least acceptable hitter. There is a reason that he was a pretty highly ranked prospect in our system, and why management is still trying to provide him with opportunities to develop, even at the MLB level. Apparently, those of us who are intrigued, are not alone. Look, hitting at the Major League level is incredibly difficult and is more of a learned skill, than a natural athletic gift. We are seeing plenty of guys initially look clueless, but later learn to be good hitters. You can't teach speed, athleticism or power, but you can teach hitting. It's a skill and you don't need to be big, or strong to do it well. Look at Altuve. That little guy is leading the League and his Slugging % is amazing, for a guy of such small stature. I'd just like to see Engel develop the ability to barrel up the ball. He would be a real stud. Again, I'll simply quote Future Sox, in their assessment: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from."

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 07:04 PM) Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games. Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games. Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter. On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass. I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season. I agree that, at this point, Leury is a better player, and will always have more versatility. That is not the debate here. I'm just intrigued by the elite defense, that Adam provides at a key defensive position, and the potential as a hitter, given his power and speed. That is a rare combination. But again. we all agree that he has to hit, which he hasn't yet been able to do.

He has power. His issues are contact, and pitch selection.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:45 PM) You can't play a guy with an OPS of 530 in any sort of role, not even off the bench. Sorry. Adam Engel is absolutely useless hitting that poorly. Let him go back to AAA next year and earn another chance but trotting him out in a competitive year? Ha, don't make me laugh. I think we all agree that his current skill level level with the bat is not acceptable. That is the point. We are contemplating how to get him to a respectable level, as a hitter, to go along with his elite defense and speed. So, you believe that he has just as good of a chance to do so, back in the Minors? Whether, or not, next year is a competitive year is a big question. I think it depends upon how fast the pitchers will be ready, as I have stated elsewhere. It's doubtful that Kopech and Hansen will be big contributors, that soon.

Leury was always regarded as a plus middle infielder, but the outfield is really new to him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:00 PM) I don't think Leury is a poor defensive CF, although Engel is obviously better. Regarding his arm, I was unaware of that write-up, but every metric and the eye test have shown that his arm is nothing special. We'll see if it improves I agree that Leury is not a poor defender, but I doubt that he is any better than average.

Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder. Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from." I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield.

I'm 100% behind giving him the CF job, next year and giving him every opportunity to figure it out. You find fast, good defensive centerfielders, but rarely one with potential power and a good arm. It is so intriguing.

A guy with tools, but not really a very good baseball player, is one thing. But Engel has so much potential. Having had the opportunity to see him play, it is easy to see why the Sox have given him every opportunity to succeed, despite his poor offensive numbers. His defense is off the charts. I can't remember a better centerfielder on the Sox. He is right up there with Jim Landis and Ken Berry, from my kidhood days. He has plus-plus speed, great instincts, a good glove and a very good arm. Perhaps he just needs more time to learn how to hit. If there is any way that they can get hm to become even a .250 hitter, with power, which he certainly possess, he would be worth keeping in center, just for that Gold Glove in waiting. What do you think he needs to do to make better contact?

The Nats fans, on that forum, can't hold a candle to the people on Soxtalk. Makes one appreciate the great insight, which this site provides. Thank you, guys.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Sep 3, 2017 -> 03:47 PM) If you look at the numbers I posted earlier, he isn't hitting the ball significantly harder or hitting more line drives, yet his BABIP has increased signicantly, at a very unsustainable rate. He's bound to regress to somewhere around 1-2 WAR next year. Ok, however you don't see him beating out a lot of weak infield hits, or hitting Texas Leaguers.

The value of the BABIP stat is a little suspect. What is more significant is how the hitter is consistently "barreling up" the ball. If he is hitting lot's of line drives, rather than soft grounders and pop ups, his average simply reflects that. By contrast, if a hitter makes a lot of weak contact, it probably isn't simply bad luck that is causing his poor results. It appears that Avi is not trying to hit homers, and is not using an upper cut swing. His hits consistently have high exit velocity. If he continues that approach, it may not be unreasonable to expect him to have continued success. On the other hand, if he is to become more of a power hitter, he may have to alter his approach, which will significantly reduce his BABIP, and average.

Eloy has no protection in that Baron's lineup, and yet he is putting up the best numbers of his short career. It's surprising that opponents are still pitching to him.

Today is probably the realistic deadline and I haven't even seen a rumor. Have any of you heard anything?

Nice couple of innings for Burr. 4 K's in 2 innings, no base runners

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Aug 29, 2017 -> 10:44 AM) I noticed in box scores, he is playing first and I think dh ing. I double checked and 11 games at third with 7 errors. 17 games at first 2 errors. 20 games as DH. Young enough to improve. Yikes!!!! 7 errors in 11 games, at third, does not sound encouraging. Have you seen a scouting report on his defense?