Lillian

Welcome to AA and the "pitchers' park" in Birmingham, Eloy. Opposite field homer.

Eloy homers on first at bat.

Anyone know why Rutherford has not been in the lineup, the last couple of games?

Fangraphs' top 10 is the same as MLB Pipeline's, with a slight variation in the order.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) While MIcker Adolpho has a very high ceiling, he also has the floor of a low minors bust due to his K rate. Rutherford might not have a 40 homer ceiling, but everything else about him is higher than Micker. Which of our top 4 outfield prospects turns out to be the best is unknowable, at this point. So far, Jimenez is the only one who seems like a sure thing. My point was that Rutherford does not need to be a super star, like Trout, to be a big part of the rebuild.

If Rutherford were expected to be anything like the player, that Trout turned out to be, it would have taken a lot more than what the Sox gave up, in order to get him. Failing to be realistic is going to lead to a lot of very serious disappointment. He doesn't need to become a "Super Star' to be an important part of this rebuild. The Sox already have 3 other potential young star outfielders in Jimenez, Robert and Adolfo so he doesn't need to be a big star. Wouldn't you guys be happy with a solid defensive left fielder who hit something like Melky, but with more speed?

The Sox may be competitive, a little earlier than some have believed. I think that would depend upon how quickly the pitchers are ready. If they can get Kopech, Lopez and one more, out of the other top prospects (Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, or Cease) to join Rodon and perform well, then they could be competitive in 2019. It they were to draft a mature college arm, like Brady Singer and if he could be ready after only one year in the Minors, that also could fill out the rotation. It will also depend upon whether guys like Avi, Davidson, Delmonico and Leury Garcia are retained and continue to develop, or whether the front office decides to trade them for more prospects. If the front office elects to keep them and Moncada develops into a super star by 2019, then they might be able to compete. A lineup built around Moncada, Abreu, Delmonico, Avi, Davidson and Anderson, as the core, could be good enough, if the pitching were good. In that scenario, it might make sense to acquire 1 or 2 free agents on shorter term contracts, giving time for Robert, Burger, Rutherford and Jimenez to continue to mature and develop, on the farm. I personally don't favor spending big on long term free agents, such as Machado. I'd prefer that the front office use the big money to extend the best of the young prospects, such as Moncada and Jimenez, once they establish themselves, much as they did with Anderson, premature as that move may have been.

I suppose this is as good a place as any, to get a clarification on a question I have: Using MLB.com's "Pipeline," I don't understand how they derive some of these "overall" grades. For example, here is Alec Hansen's line: Fastball: 70 | Slider: 60 | Curveball: 55 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 45 | Overall: 50. How do they compute a 50 overall grade from those numbers?

Blake is the youngest position player on the Kannapolis roster, and holding his own. He turned 20 in May, so it is way too early to be concerned. This video provides some interesting insight into what kind of person he is:

This report and video from 2014 provides a good insight into just how highly he was regarded, back then: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/80378086/sea...shot-at-majors/ Let's just hope that most of our current top prospects don't suffer a similar fate.

There is quite a disparity between the early scouting reports on Beer, before he went to Clemson and the current assessments. Look at how this report described him: http://www.fueledbysports.com/seth-beer-scouting-report "Average fielder with a plus arm, has the makings of a future right fielder." "Talented base runner with plus speed, looks like a guy that could steal anywhere from 10-20 bases a season."

QUOTE (Quin @ Aug 5, 2017 -> 10:49 AM) I think Rodon, Kopech, Hansen and Giolito all have #1 potential (in order of most likely to reach that potential) and Lopez has high #2 upside. I'm with you on Hansen, but skeptical on Giolito. However, three #1's, and a bunch of #2's would be just fine. Somehow, I still think that they end up with one more top of the rotation guy, before this rebuild is over. My dream of a starting five, which includes 4 #1's could become reality. Imagine a post season like that!!! With two more high draft picks and Coop's ability to help develop pitchers, it seems very doable. And the bonus is that the bullpen should be absolutely "lights out," just with the left overs of those who don't make the rotation. Stevens, Guerrero, Dunning, Cease and Burdi are my favorites, at the moment. I don't know what to think of Fulmer.

When do you expect Hansen to be promoted to Birmingham?

I just watched this YouTube replay of Singer, pitching in this year's College World Series. That two-seam fastball, running in and down to right handed hitters, is a terrific offering. That should play vs. Big League hitters. It's very impressive. I watched the first 6 innings: I have long believed, and asserted on this forum, that it should be easier to evaluate a pitcher, than a hitter. You watch a guy with a sound mechanical delivery, a ball that has velocity, movement and that is well commanded, and you can be pretty confident that any hitter would be really challenged to successfully square it up. Then you mix in an assortment of other plus pitches and it seems much easier to project how he would perform, at higher levels. You watch the pitch and think, I don't care who he'd face, he's going to be tough to hit. By contrast, you see these young hitters, who have never faced really tough pitching, and it is virtually impossible to know how they would do. Trying to evaluate them, hitting against significantly lesser quality pitching, just seems like a very daunting task. The hitter may have a beautiful swing and a lot of bat speed, but that won't guarantee that he will be able to employ those tools successfully against Big League pitching. In other words; the pitcher's arsenal can be evaluated, irrespective of just how successful he was vs. the hitters. It is what it is. It's not simply that he dominates hitters of lesser ability. You can discern that his stuff would be hard for anyone to hit. Contrasty, a hitter's performance depends upon the quality of the pitches, he's facing. He could look great against lesser quality pitching. Heck, he could look like Ted Williams in batting practice and yet be totally inept vs. a good pitcher. You just can't know, until he faces one.

Yes, of course we have several prospects who may be adequate bottom of the rotation starters. But just think what it would be like to have top of the rotation potential, at every slot. So far, I think Rodon and Kopech are the only two guys, whom I see as #1's. If we end up with too many guys of that caliber, they can be traded or employed as dominant relievers. And, when you factor in injuries and disappointments, we may end up with less than we anticipate. I just think that it's hard to have too much pitching.

I would be alright with a top level SS and I agree that we should not take any more corner outfield, or infield sluggers. However, having a dominant rotation, 1 through 5 and a lights out bullpen would be incredible.

Bringing this discussion back to the 2018 Draft; I'm leaning toward Singer or Kumar Rocker, with our pick. By adding that one more top of the rotation starter, the future staff isn't going to need all that much offense. It will be interesting to see what kind of a Junior year he has at Florida.

QUOTE (beautox @ Aug 4, 2017 -> 11:08 PM) I think there is a good chance that a fair amount of those prospects beat those ETAs. as for '20 this is what i see if the sox have a similar success rate as the cubs. CF - Robert 2B - Moncada# LF - Jimenez 1B - Gillaspie# or Sheets* 3B - Burger C - Collins* DH - Abreu SS - Garcia# RF - Rutherford* or Adolfo or Basabe# or Call or Gonzalez SP - Kopech SP - Rodon* SP - Lopez SP - Guerrero* SP - Giolito CL - Burdi SU - Fulmer SU - Stephens MR - Goldberg LO - Bummer I think the sox lock up Leury to a reasonable contract extension and TA becomes our version of Castro. Locking up Leury has been an intriguing possibility to me, as well. I also agree that he now belongs back at SS. He was always regarded as a very good defensive SS, and the Sox now have plenty of outfielders. With Leury as our back up SS, or even our #1, if Anderson fails to put it all together, the Sox would have that position pretty well covered. They could certainly do worse than a productive switch hitter, with speed and he is still only 26. Where are Hansen, Dunning and Cease?

Just to follow up, and in response to the concerns about prematurely expecting the prospects to produce by 2020, here are their projected ages, in 2020 and the MLB Pipeline anticipated "ETA's": Moncada 25 ETA: 2017 Jimenez 23 ETA: 2019 Robert 23 ETA: 2020 Rutherford 23 ETA: 2020 Burger 24 ETA: 2020 Collins 25 ETA: 2018 Gillaspie 27 ETA: 2017 Sheets 24 ETA: 2020 Kopech 24 ETA: 2018 Giolito 26 ETA: 2017 Lopez 26 ETA: 2017 Dunning 25 ETA: 2019 Hansen 25 ETA: 2019 Guerrero 26 ETA: 2018 Cease 24 ETA: 2019 The 3 youngest guys; Jimenez, Robert and Rutherford would be 23. Guys as highly regarded as Jimenez and Robert often succeed by age 23. If they are truly elite prospects, they could very well be ready.

Greg, I'm rooting for Matt as well. However, my hope is that he establishes himself as a bonafide slugger, who could be used as a trade chip, to net something needed for that juggernaut squad, which Hahn is putting together for 2020. I suspect that sluggers will not be in short supply on that team.

Although it's very early to be projecting 2020's roster and lineup, could we have some fun? You guys were very forthcoming in the thread on next year's projected roster, so what the hell, why not? In addition to all of the future trades, high draft picks and free agent signings, here is a possible lineup, with an accompanying rationale: CF Robert RH LF Rutherford LH 2B Moncada SW RF Jimenez RH DH Abreu RH 1B Sheets LH / Gillaspie SW 3B Burger RH C Collins LH SS Anderson RH The lineup is intended to stagger the right and left handed hitters: Robert leads off, because he is purported to have the speed, on base and base running skills for the spot Rutherford is slotted in the #2 hole, as he possesses good pitch recognition, patience and contact skills. He could be proficient at executing the hit and run, and have enough speed, from the left side to stay out of double plays. So far, he has not demonstrated the power, but that may play just fine, in a lineup that has power potential at every position. Moncada provides power and speed, along with the ability to hit from either side of the plate Jimenez profiles as a legitimate clean up slugger, with the ability to also hit for average Abreu still belongs somewhere in the heart of the order, with veteran leadership and RBI skills Sheets or Gillaspie provide a left handed bat, to sandwich between three right handed sluggers Burger could be a real effective weapon, kicking off the bottom third of the order. Collins provides another left handed bat with power and high OBP skills Anderson provides speed and some pop at the bottom of the order. If neither Gillaspie, nor Sheets develops, Adolfo could end up in RF, with Jimenez moving to first. Hopefully, Avi, Davidson and perhaps another one, or two, current players will perform well enough to net a couple of useful pieces to augment this list. I'm very interested to get your takes. Let's do the pitching in a separate thread.

First time through the Kanny lineup, everyone reached but one. Burger homered and is batting for the 2ND time in the inning!!!!!

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 08:39 PM) You are an amazing fan. There are literally no woman on this board posting besides you and you are still talking baseball in your 70's ? with a bunch of new age analysts. Loving the history of the game is why I like Hawk Harrelson. How could I not miss hearing about guys like Ted Williams or Joe Dimaggio from a guy who experienced much of it first hand ? You are no dinosaur . You are a rare gem or a fine wine. Your perspective is much appreciated. Thank you. That is very kind and much appreciated. Baseball, even with all of its changes, is still the most beautiful game, ever devised.

I have a suggestion and request for you, "Alexeihyeess". You appear to be quite convinced that this patient approach is not the best one. Could we try a compromise? Instead of the team giving up on winning until 2020, what would you think about giving the young prospects one more year, and then executing your aggressive suggestion to go for it, in 2019, instead of next year. Think in terms of at least a couple more very high draft picks, this June and next year. Then consider whom you would recommend for the roster in 2019. Please also add your favorite realistic free agent acquisitions, keeping in mind that you could acquire them in 2019, as well as next year. I'd be very interested to see what that might look like, and to discover whether, or not, you might find it more feasible than going for it next season. I'd look forward to reading it. Thanks.

With his change up rated a 60 and his control rated 55, I think he'll be right there with Guerrero and Clarkin, in the low, to mid 20's. I personally love a young pitcher with his qualities of pitch-ability and control, especially with a plus change up. It's still the second best pitch in baseball, right behind a well located fastball.