Lillian

Thanks "Oldsox". It's a shame that today's fans never had a chance to watch a guy like Nellie Fox. Who knows how he would have faired against today's tremendous pitching, but he was fun to watch. In the same way, I'll bet we would have enjoyed watching Ty Cobb. Those hitters played a different kind of game than the one that has evolved. Which version of the game is better, is a matter of personal preference, but it was indisputably different.

Eloy would be the youngest player on the Baron's roster, but so what? He'd probably be the best, as well.

I hope that didn't sound like sour grapes. I love the trades and also believe in our future. It's just that it struck me as though it seemed surprising to some how good Moncada and Jimenez might become. To the contrary, I think that the front office is counting on that.

They better be. They cost the Sox one Super Star pitcher and another, pretty close to that.

Of course, power hitters strike out, and that's fine. However, little guys like Madrigal might be better served forgetting about hitting homers. I understand all of your points and recognize that the game has changed. That does not negate the point regarding choking up. It didn't seem to hurt Bonds' and he was the definition of a "power hitter". At any rate, don't mind me. I'm just a "dinosaur". Much about the game is very different from when I first became a fan, in the 50's. Perhaps there is just no longer any place in the game, for a hitter like "Little Nellie".

Wow! So, Nellie Fox wasn't a good hitter. In his 10 prime years, between ages 23 and 32, he never struck out as many as 20 times, in one season. In that period, he only hit below .300 4 times; .296 twice, .289 and .285. He didn't have the natural tools of today's players. He wasn't big, strong or very fast. Yet he had a terrific career and was key to the Sox offense, as pathetic as it was, in those days. He was a great '2 hole' hitter, with lot's of sacrifices. He was also very adept at executing the hit and run. Oh well. That was another era. The point is that a guy like Madrigal is not going to be a slugger, or big run producer. He could do worse than to model himself after a guy like "Little Nellie".

In my "time zone," as Hawk would say, I grew up with Nellie Fox, as the face of the franchise. That guy choked way up on the bat and exhibited some of the most remarkable bat control imaginable. He could seemingly hit the ball wherever he wanted, and he almost never struck out.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) Aluminum bats are a bit different and he did hit .380. Ok, so he hit .380, which means that he might hit .400, if he choked up a little. I understand, it just isn't done anymore. Is there some reason that a hitter can't effectively choke up, on an aluminum bat? You have probably read this article: https://jugssports.com/why-dont-players-cho...the-bat-anymore

I agree. Even if Avi were to regress, it is too risky to let him go for anything other than an elite prospect, because if that prospect fails and Garcia continues to realize the potential, which he has now demonstrated, that would be hard to live down. There is no hurry with making a decision about his future with this team. If he sustains success and is recognized as being a really good player, then they could consider trading him, in exchange for someone of comparable value. At this point, most of you feel that no team would be ready to provide that.

It doesn't appear that the next Draft has any clear #1, at least not yet. If there are several players, especially a mix of position players and pitchers, whom are all regarded as being of similar potential, what's wrong with prioritizing need, or giving deference to some organizational strategy?

Madrigal is the "poster child" for my "pet peeve," regarding choking up. Why a player his size would want to have his hands, way down on the knob of the bat, makes no sense to me. He is not going to hit much for power, so why not just become an elite contact hitter. He obviously has talent and is highly regarded, but a guy like that could probably be significantly better, with the enhanced bat control, which choking up affords. Hardly anyone ever does it anymore, not even with 2 strikes on them.

I agree with both of you, and don't see the need for more outfield and first base prospects. If Robert, Rutherford, Jimenez and Adolfo all become legit contributors, one of them is going to have to move to first. My guess would be Jimenez, or Adolfo, with Jimenez being the most likely. The middle of the order bats will probably emerge out of those 4 prospects, plus Burger, Moncada and Collins. Moreover, if Sheets plays his way into the mix, there wouldn't be any room for one of those guys to move to first. I didn't even include Basabe or Fisher, which only adds to the crowded outfield prospect picture. Pitching is still the most expensive and fragile part of the equation. I'd rather accumulate more depth in that department. If the Sox ended up with a surplus, they can always be traded for other needs.

It just doesn't seem completely coincidental that his recent power surge has been accompanied by all of the k's. But like you guys say, if he can keep his OBP up and hit the long ball, I'd take it.

Collins could be trying to hard to hit homers, which might account for all of the strike outs. He has a great eye, so it isn't a matter of pitch recognition. I suspect that he's simply swinging too hard.

Kumar Rocker and is already topping some mock drafts. This young "monster" is very intriguing, especially if Coop could work with him:

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 05:25 PM) On his way to W-S? It's only an hour, up the road, but I haven't heard anything.

Where is Burger tonight?

The Sox have him under control through 2024, if they pick up the options. That's plenty of time for him to just continue developing at SS. The team isn't expected to contend over the next couple of years, so it seems like good timing. He has tremendous raw talent and not that much experience, which suggests that he will get much better. We've all seen him make some pretty amazing plays already, and that should be very encouraging.

Did anyone notice that he is choking up, in that photo? Does he do that, even if only when down in the count?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) Lillian's health, though, would be extraordinary. You bet, "bmags"!!! If he played like Sizemore, before the injuries, we'd all be ecstatic. However, I really doubt that he'll be that good. Look at Grady's 4 years, between ages 22 and 25. He was as a star. If Rutherford becomes that kind of player, the trade was a big win for the Sox.

MLB pipeline states; "He isn't very fluid, which detracts from his average arm strength, and his receiving and blocking skills are spotty". I don't understand how a guy who doesn't have quick feet and very strong, accurate arm, can throw out 40% of base stealers. He has also been working very hard on pitch framing and is apparently making very good progress there. You can see why the Sox believe he has good potential to stick, behind the plate. Collins leads the team in walks, with 63 and therefore his OBP is a very respectable .363. There's also not much to complain about his .424 slugging %. If he becomes a good defensive catcher, I'd be very happy with a left handed power hitter, with a good eye. I also suspect that he will improve his contact rate, and get his average up. You can add me to the list of those who think that it's way too earlier to be very discouraged over his progress.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 05:15 AM) He still has less than 200 ABs in High A after being injured earlier in the year. IMO, he should just stay in High A the remainder of the year and play in the Arizona Fall League. Next year start him at AA and see what happens. I don't think people are sleeping on our first round pick from last year. I think people have legitimate concerns about his future. Although he has made strides as a catcher this year, he will never be more than average there. As a result, his offense HAS to carry him. Now the bar is lower for a catcher offensively, but instead of progressing offensively this year, he seems to have taken a step back due to serious contact issues. Why do think that Collins' defense could never be "more than average"? What limits him?

QUOTE (kwill @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) This is the frustrating part of the trade as the White Sox will save money next year as they have nothing committed. Good Ole JR could have taken back a piece like Headley. He could be a nice veteran player to play some nice defense at third who knows maybe he has a nice first half and flip him. I am sure if we took him off the Yankees hands they would have upgraded prospect in take or thrown in another player. Don't get me wrong, I am not crazy upset over the trade, just not excited like the rest Hahn has pulled off. The money saved now and next year can be used at the end of the rebuild, when the team is ready to contend. Hahn actually stated something to that effect.

From my perspective, it is simply a matter of doing what is necessary to convert assets, which are not likely to be significant cost controlled contributors, when the Sox are ready to compete in 2020, into young prospects, with a high probability of success. Frazier was not going to be part of that future roster and therefore not likely to have even received a qualifying offer, at the end of the year. Robertson was an expensive closer, who would also not be around in 2020. In the meantime, closers are not very important to teams, which are not contending. That leaves the most valued piece; Kahnle. I really like him. however he would be 31 in 2020 and getting expensive. His value now is greatly enhanced, playing on a contender. Our best young prospects are 20 to 23 years old. Anyone 28 is not going to be considered an integral part of the perennially contending team, that takes the field at the turn of the next decade. Therefore, it's not that Kahnle isn't a better player now, or even that he may end up having a better career than Rutherford. It's simply that he is not the right age for what the front office is building. Of course, there is no guarantee that a 20 year old outfielder in A ball will realize his potential. That's the gamble with all prospects, and the scouting department has the best tools to assess that. We just have to trust that their assessment of a left handed bat, with Rutherford's potential, represents a good probability of being part of that future team. Kahnle is 8 years older than he is, which is a critical factor in this total equation. Moreover, he is a fireballing reliever. He is quite likely to be finished, when Rutherford realizes whatever is his potential. It is for the same reason that many of us have already begun to speculate about the 30 year old Abreu being a potential trade candidate. If he should be traded, it won't be because he isn't good, or isn't expected to continue to be good, for a few more years. It will be because he can enhance the core of the team that will hopefully be in contention, during at least the first half of the next decade. Jose would then be entering his mid 30's, and likely his decline. It's really all about age and time, especially in this post PEDS era.

Rutherford may indeed be able to stick in CF, but I think that spot will belong to Robert. He has the speed and arm to be an elite center fielder.