Lillian

Just speculating and venting!!!

I'm not watching the game, but rather following it in this thread. Has there been any farewell hugging going on in the dugout, please?

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:09 PM) Then DL him because he can't hit with any power or field last 40 games. Yes, and after tonight's "pending loss", and the first of our anticipated trades, they should begin to address whatever injury he has, and start the mending process, so that he will be ready for next year. Does anyone have a suspicion regarding what his health issue might be?

I really don't want another extra inning game tonight. Come on Twinkies, score a run and send this one to Cooperstown. The trades are so much more intriguing than watching this team.

There must be something wrong with Jose. He is playing like a shell of the guy we saw the last two years.

Let's get this game over with and announce a couple of deals. There just has to be a few things in the works. I don't buy the Frazier's flu. I'll bet he caught the same thing that Sale had, earlier in the week. LOL. The Mets may be closing in on him. And remember that neither Boston, Texas or L. A. have acquired a top starter yet. I really think someone is going to get Sale.

Forget about Lucroy. It's hard to believe that Hahn would be adding.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 04:29 PM) Was going to say. I was a little worried we might do good against Cubs and then sweep twins causing possibly no trades but the way they've lost the last 3 and possibly today, I don't think I have to worry. That is precisely the "silver lining" here. Not only are we headed for another top draft pick, but this should also help the front office to decide to trade some of their coveted players. This is way more preferable than deciding to go for it again. Be grateful.

Until the contending teams, which are looking for starting pitching, have acquired the arms they seek, I remain optimistic that Hahn will be able to make a good deal for Sale, or Quintana. Boston, Texas and L. A. have not yet acquired anyone, and they are running out of time. They are the ones who are up against the deadline, if they want to win it, this year. The Pale Hose can wait, if they have to. There is always the off season. I just hope that Hahn doesn't screw it up.

The idea of trading both Sale and Quintana seems very unrealistic. That not only suggests a total rebuild, which is not the White Sox way, but the task of building a formidable staff, with both of them gone, would be Herculean. A staff led by Quintana, as the Ace, Rodon as a #2 and Fulmer, with another youngster and a veteran, would be feasible. Of course, there is no guarantee, but it's doable. Without Sale and Q, they would need to rebuild the whole staff. Even a rebuild requires a core, and without either Sale and Quintana, what would be the core of the pitching staff? Doesn't it make more sense to trade one of the two, aa well as other veterans, such as Frazier, Melky and Robertson, in order to acquire the other pieces for a rebuild?

I really hope that they trade Sale and keep Quintana. If they do, they better get back the position players who could fix this pathetic offense. I'd love to see several trades, like some of those, about which guys have been speculating. With a productive offense and a bunch of new players, who don't have a mental block, which prevents them from scoring runs when Q pitches, he could not only become the Ace of the staff, but one of the most coveted, elite pitchers in the game. It just can't be a coincidence that this team almost never scores runs for Jose. It's apparent that it has gotten into their heads. I'd just rather keep him, and trade them. For me, Sale is a much better choice to be traded, for the following reasons: 1) He has one year less of control than Q. 2) He will likely bring back more talent, because Quintana is underrated. 3) He probably represents a greater injury risk 4) He is not my kind of team leader. He seems selfish and childish, which doesn't set a good example for young players, more of whom would make up the roster, after trading for top prospects.

How would Betts rate as a centerfielder, if he were moved there?

I don't understand all of the hype with Profar. What has he done, in either the Majors or Minors to merit the label "elite"? I don't see anything about his offensive game that is worthy of that assessment. Help me out here.

Can any of you explain what has enabled Shields to so dramatically turn things around? He has been terrific, after that brief awful stretch.

He has had 11 quality starts, out of 14 chances. That is extraordinary for a number 4 or 5 starter. He has one more year of control, before he becomes a free agent after next season. His current $5 million contract is a bargain. What do you think he will get in arbitration?

In response to the argument that the Sox would need to fill 3 holes in their lineup, I disagree. I continue to assert that they don't need to fill every hole with a plus offensive player. There is nothing wrong with going with a solid defensive centerfielder, as they did with the acquisition of Jackson. He, or someone like him, would be fine. The problem continues to be that they need to bolster and balance the heart of the order. To me, the biggest short coming with the offense this year has been the #3 - 5 hitters. Jose has not been the offensive force, which he had been in his first 2 seasons, and Frazier has been a two outcome hitter, home run or strike out. A .200 AVG and an OBP of .300 doesn't qualify for a spot in the middle of the order. Melky has arguably been the best of the three. Eaton and Anderson are fine at the top of the order. If this roster had included one really dangerous, productive left handed bat, and Jose had been himself, I think that the offense would have been OK. Unfortunately, La Roche was never the answer, and his retirement didn't afford any opportunity to acquire anyone, any better. Guys like Frazier and Lawrie are fine, as long as they are batting in the lower third of the order. Even the lack of offense from he catchers would be tolerable, if the Sox had a potent middle of the order. Now, how you find that big bat, preferably left handed, (as Hahn has stated many times) and how you get Jose back on track, I have no idea.

One could argue, from another perspective, that trading young, affordable, top of the rotation starters, like Sale and Quintana is not such a good idea. Pitching is still the most important component of a championship team, and much more difficult and expensive to acquire, than position players. The Sox are very close to having that Post Season winning starting staff. If J. R. really wants to win, they could much more easily fill one or two holes in the offense, than try to rebuild the entire roster. Think of it like this; even if trading Sale and Q. were to bring back a great young offensive team, from where would they build a winning starting staff? Moreover, championship teams rarely have, and don't really need to have potent hitters at every position. How many contenders have good hitters in the lower third of the order? And remember, there is no guarantee that the young players coming back would realize their lofty potential. Add one or two bats to the Sox lineup and it suddenly looks a lot different. Imagine if they had just Lucroy as their catcher. You could find a plus defender in CF, maybe even Jackson, if he can return soon enough, and they would look just fine. RF Eaton SS Anderson 1B Abreu LF Cabrera C Lucroy DH Morneau 3B Frazier 2B Lawrie CT ? On the other hand, a starting rotation of Rodon, Fulmer, Shields and two question marks is not going to win, even with a young star studded lineup.

I'm sorry to say it, but I don't think that this story is going to have a happy ending. The team came together, after the La Roche incident and started the season on fire. However, it seems unlikely that this will have a similar effect. At least in the former incident, Sale wasn't demonstrating a selfish attitude. He was defending a teammate. In this case, it all seems to be about him. The one question that nobody seems to be asking is perhaps the most important; How do his teammates feel about his behavior? If Sale were to be perceived as a clubhouse "cancer," or at least a negative influence, that would put management in a bad position. The front office would be more inclined to trade him, right when his value could be diminished. In any case, non of this helps the organization's image. Appearing to be disfunctional doesn't help to attract new fans, and it doesn't make the Sox a more desirable destination for future free agents. Again, I don't see this story ending well. Maybe I'm just over reacting? I hope so.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 08:14 PM) Maybe he really doesnt want to be traded and is using this to lower his value. Sure is a strange way to demonstrate how much you love your organization, and exactly what is it about this team that would make him want to stay on it? I'd guess that he would prefer to be on a contending team and one that could score some runs for him. Don't interpret my comment as siding with him. It's just an observation.

Or, what if Sale wants to help his "new" team by trying to reduce the amount and quality of players that they have to include in a trade to the Sox? That could be in Sale's interest.

Let's try to analyze this from a different tack. What are the holes that need to be filled, going forward a year or 2: SS Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu DH ? C Collins 3B ? CF ? 2B ? Lf ? Trade Sale to Boston for Moncada and Jackie Bradley Jr., filling the holes at second base and centerfield. Boston could use Holt in center, for the rest of the season. Trade Robertson, Frazier and Melky to which ever teams could fill at least 2 of the other 3 holes, with young cost controlled players. You could include Lawrie, but he probably wouldn't bring back much. I'm beginning to get excited about Alex Call as a potential future outfielder. A DH could best be acquired in the Free agent market, and if Collins ends up at first, Abreu would DH. Keep Quintana, and hope that Rodon, Fullmer, Adams and Hansen, could fill out the rest of the rotation. Burdi and Jones might be able to hold down the back end of the bullpen.

The old adages are worth remembering: "Pitching is 80% of the game"; "Good pitching will always stop good hitting"; "Great pitching wins championships," etc. Now, factor in the exorbitant cost of locking up great pitching, e.g; Scherzer and Greinke. It seems that any team that wants Sale or Quintana would have to give up more than a top prospect, regardless of how promising he may be. Promises don't always translate into production. How do you trade one established Super Star, on a reasonable contract, for even a potential "Super Star," especially, when your Super Star is a pitcher and the other player is a position player? I would want more than Moncada, in a deal for Sale. The Sox have to be filling at least 2, preferably 3 holes, if they create the huge hole that losing Sale would represent. I know that we all have a tendency to over value our own players and prospects, but that is not the case with our lofty opinion of Chris Sale.

Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn't imagine. Thanks

Did I miss something? I don't see any thread discussing this: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/191...for-chris-sale/ The articles speculated that the Sox would want Profar and Gallo. What would you consider a fair return for Sale?

It is hard to imagine that they would trade both Sale and Quintana. How would they rebuild a starting rotation, with both of those arms gone? One of them does indeed make sense, if they can fill several holes, in return. I'm still leaning toward trading one of them and a few veteran offensive players, such as Frazier.