Gregory Pratt

Neither of them is very good and they both are half the pitcher they were advertised as. You know, I was thinking about this recently. Does KW think White Sox fans are stupid? Or are his scouts stupid? Was he lying to us or just misinformed about Gavin Floyd being one of the top prospects in the game/being so electric? How about Masset? And it's not necessarily a "personal" thing with Floyd as I definitely think Masset represents it, but I just want to know if we were lied to deliberately or not.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:55 AM) You know there's a huge difference between Hall and Salty, as the Braves actually were interested in getting him some at-bats at first base (due to their awful LaRoche trade). Also, there were so many concerns about his defensive ability behind the plate, everyone knows he'll eventually become a 1B. The Sox had no other options at back-up catcher in the spring, and should have been more careful with Hall. Diving for a ball isn't something that catchers ever have to do. They were showcasing him, more than anything. His offense isn't good enough for first base and he isn't that hot a catcher. That's why he was at first. We were giving Hall at-bats and saving him some wear-and-tear. One of the best managers in the game has put a catcher at first for very defensible reasons. So did Ozzie, who isn't half the man Cox is (though he might be, eventually). I'm just saying, I've never bought the hysteria about Ozzie Killing Toby!

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:38 AM) We'll see how Lucy does this month with the club, and then in AFL. He might be the backup C next year. I know he's hitting something like five hundred, and I genuinely like him, but 1. He struck out swinging on a changeup in the other batter's batter's box at about the shoulders 2. He makes me think of Suzuki in a bad way. I doubt he'll be the backup catcher next year. If he is, he could be a good Henry Blanco type, but he'll have to hit a little, too.

Toby Hall isn't that good to begin with. And no, Ozzie didn't ruin him. Would everybody, say, throw Bobby Cox under the bus if Salty had been injured when they played him at first? It was a freak play and they were trying to save him some energy by not having him catch. There was nothing wrong with what Ozzie did, I don't care how bad Hall looked at first. He wasn't there trying out for the position. He was just getting at-bats. I will say this about ruining Hall: why the hell hasn't he gotten surgery yet? And who taught him how to call a game? But the first question, obviously, is more important.

All I need now is to hear that Josh Hamilton or Mark Buehrle are on something and I'm done. Halladay or Oswalt, too. And I swear to God, if Schuerholz is on steroids... Really, this game is starting to resemble the Women's Swim Team of the Germans in the 1970s

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 08:30 AM) Just because a lot of players do it, doesn't make it any more right. As for Ankiel, it looks like he stopped as soon as it became banned. If that's the case, then that does mitigate the damage a bit. Call me a cynic but I'll bet he just switched dealers.

On BBTN they were talking about scouts who apparently are noticiing that players are suddenly getting big again after having return to normal following steroid testing.

This was obviously a result of my heckling Dempster.

deep down I've always wanted to be called "Roy" by someone as my middle name is Royal and I like the name Roy. My two favorite non-Sox, non-Buehrle pitchers are named Roy. I always liked the name Roy. but goddamnitall, "Roy" can't come unsolicited. It has to be somebody saying to me, "Gregory Royal Pratt? Hi Roy!" But that won't happen. So if people want to call me Roy, they can. Just not here. That wouldn't be cool. I wouldn't mind though. I've got a Poli-Sci class to get to. Wonder if he'll call me Roy.

QUOTE(Linnwood @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 08:08 PM) Anyone care to say what AJP is doing the game, and what Hawk said re: AJP's wife? He said that AJ's back after his wife's grandmother died. He said, though, "AJ's wife's died, grandmother..." and then explained. It was really rough sounding. He didn't mean anything. Just misspoke, but it sounded like he'd said his wife was dead.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) Just wanted to check Greg, you'd sent me a PM last night and I responded this morning but I'm not sure it got through as my internet connection seemed to time out. Did you get my response? No, I didn't. I was wondering about that. I thought, "Holy s***, I must've greatly offended him." I don't want to talk about it anymore here, though, so if you could re-respond and keep it private, I'd appreciate that. I have the same problem sometimes sending PMs too, though.

What part of over-thrown, unfinished curve OR changeup don't oyu understand? Floyd isn't exactly known for consistency. Maybe I should ask Joe Borchard and Sean Tracey to explain why Gavin Floyd deserves a million chances.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:56 PM) Nice red herring -- figures, can't debate the topic at hand, so go to something else. This is also the second time you've brought up the Borchard jersey, which has what to do with what? Your purpose in bringing it up has what, exactly, to do with this (or any, really?) topic? Oh, right, absolutely nothing. And I've heard much worse than you could type on your keyboard. If you could come up with something clever, I might actually laugh, but -- IlliniKrush, Tony, SnB and Rowand all have you beat in the "Keith's Borchard Jersey!!!!" joke. Cheapshots? What cheapshots? I've never agreed with much of your pitching "analysis", starting with your comments about B-Mac and continuing with your (ludicrous) comments about David Wells and Jamie Moyer being Hall of Famers. It has to do with pitching and my disagreement of your analysis, so I don't see what I said as a "cheapshot". of course, you've got all the VORP in the world Two red herrings in one post? Well done, Tiger! I know what Floyd was throwing because I know what a curveball looks like, and that wasn't a curveball. But apparently curveballs move in towards right-handed hitters and come in at 85 -- thanks, your just dropping knowledge left and right, Gregory! If you had any clue whatsoever, you'd realize that a couple pages back I more or less agreed with your statements about how he was pitching tonight, but at this point, it's gone beyond that, Tiger. You've got balls of steel, man. You made a couple of irrelevant red herring cracks and you're coming after me for giving the same type of irrelevant crack to you? As if you hadn't said anything? My my my. And, uh, what Floyd threw could've been anything. It was clearly something he didn't actually throw right and so it came in rolling weakly and soft. Don't give me this bulls*** about me not knowing what a curveball looks like. s***, you don't know what a curveball looks like if you think that lobbed ball was unequivocally a curveball. That s*** could've been anything.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:54 PM) So does that mean when we hear about how good Detroit pitchers are, and how the future of the Tigers is so much brighter than the Sox, we should discredit the staff because the play in Comerica? Is that alright? You can do whatever the hell you want. Besides that, there are significant things to consider when discussing a player and their home ballpark is definitely a part of it. But I'm not going to have any sort of serious conversation with you because neither of us is genuinely interested in that at this point.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:52 PM) Pratt....no reason to not root for Floyd. I don't think he's very good, and he sure seems to throw a ton of terrible pitches. However, try not to analyze every pitch he throws. Instead, analyze why Andre Ethier is playing G. Soto on the warning track! !!! You agree he hasn't looked good though, right?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:51 PM) 1. Correct. No where does that say I am rooting for my players to fail. If Floyd goes 7+ innings, gives up 1 ER, and Bukvich comes in, gives up 1 ER, and the Sox lose 2-1, I won't lose sleep. 2. Sure you did. Yeah yeah yeah.

Even Hawk is talking about how lucky we are that that last pitch didn't leave the yard. And that's three, by my count, that are gone anywhere but Comerica. Fortunately he's got his fantastic warning-track-of-Comerica pitch working tonight.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:46 PM) Nobody credible, huh? I guess all of us who see 5 innings of 1-run ball as good must not be credible. I give. You're right. His 1-run, 5 inning effort is just as bad as his 5-run, 1 inning effort. No difference at all. 1 good curveball in 20. How could the rest of us not see that? Thank you for teaching us cute little baseball fans how it works. Enjoy your thread. No, you're not anymore credible than I or Keith or Tony or Tito or fathom or wide-stance gal. Okay, maybe wide-stance gal. I give! (The point is that I'm not and nobody else here is, either, and nobody necessarily in baseball is, either. It's all subjective and not definitive.) What I'm saying is, I really, really doubt there are scouts from any organization watching Gavin "manhandle" this terrible Tigers lineup as he's done and saying, "Oh, how good." Just because you get good results one night doesn't mean you've pitched particularly well.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) And I'll take your deep and heavy pitching analysis to heart when you learn what a curveball is, or what a HoF pitcher is. Buy a better jersey than a Borchard jersey and then we'll talk. Since you want to take cheapshots because, of course, you've got all the VORP in the world and you need it to stop me being mean to Big Daddy Gavvy. Besides that, you're telling me I don't know what a curveball is because a flat, rolling breaking pitch clearly overthrown and unfinished was, what I thought, an overthrown mis-executed curveball or changeup? I'm glad you know exactly what Floyd was throwing because all it looked like was a flat, poorly executed pitch adn it's hard to say what it was. s***, man. That's silly.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:39 PM) It makes me sad you are counting fly ball outs as HR, for a White Sox pitcher. Think about that. 1. Aren't you rooting for the Sox to lose every game and get the number one pick? 2. I didn't count them as homeruns. They count as long outs. Guess I should give more credit to Floyd. He's got quite the "Warning Track in Comerica, Fifth row anywhere else" pitch working. Great catch by Timo...who is also quite terrible.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:39 PM) No, he's just providing some fantastic pitching analysis. You can't see that he only throws one good curveball for every 20 he tosses to the plate? No biases, just superb pitching analysis, tiger. You three are really cute. I'll take your criticisms to heart when you can comprehend what player I'm criticizing at what point in time.

Timo Perez was serving as Carlos Guillen's protection. har har har

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:36 PM) No, instead you call him "tiger" -- which I find funny, since he's about seven (?) years older than you -- and say he throws a curveball when it was clearly not a curveball. Fantastic analysis there, "Tiger"! Hah -- and you get upset when people single you out. Actually I was "addressing" Rayburn not Floyd, if you had read that. And you "single" me out? Ha!

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 5, 2007 -> 07:33 PM) fly outs are bombs? And give me a break. No one cares who you criticize - its that you criticize non-existent or marginal things to justify your already-existing biases, even when the current evidence is to the contrary. Is that more clear for you? My bias is the same as yours but from a different angle. You are merely looking at the final line and not the way he is throwing. There is nobody credible who will look at this game and see that Floyd has turned any sort of corner. It's "analysis" like what you're giving that leads us to Nick Masset and Gavin Floyd because of how they pitch in Mexico and Arizona. This has not been a well-pitched game. And yes, deep deep deep shots in Comerica park are bombs that don't go all the way out and he's lucky that's where they are.

You know, I wasn't even talking about how he sucks by saying "He sucks." All I did was analyze how he's pitched and looked and everybody's like, "WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE HIM ALONE! HE LOOKS FINE, BULLY!" Gives up his third bomb, this one all the way out.