Friend of Nordhagen

QUOTE(bmags @ Jun 13, 2006 -> 06:20 PM) why aren't we managers yet? Speak for yourself, bmags. I'm currently managing the Cubs AA team at West Tenn.

Dye looking slow out there. That's happened a few times this year.

QUOTE(henry wiggins @ Jun 13, 2006 -> 10:52 AM) Yeah, I read somewhere that Garcia comes in and naps in the clubhouse prior to his starts on days when he pitches. If you're going to have AJ field a lot of Freddy's plays, in addition to calling the game and playing his own position, then I think you have to propose a percentage of Freddy's salary be given to AJ. And maybe some to Iguchi too. If that's done, I think this is a plan worthy of consideration by the great minds on the Sox. And I hope that when they adopt it, they give you the credit for coming up with it. Oh Wiggins, that's kind, but I see it as a real team approach, just like AJ and Tadahito splitting Freddy's plays at first. Perhaps Freddy can give part of his pre-game nap to those two, as well.

QUOTE(henry wiggins @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) I think you're right! I wonder how Freddy's going to take the news that he has to play every day -- or do you think that Ozzie will let him start at first base only every 5th day, consistent with the rotation Freddy's used to? And once at first base, will Freddy be able to go into the 7th inning or later? Because I don't think he knows what the 8th and 9th innings look like this year, from the field. I'm just saying. I think the real question here is if Freddy will be awake for the first inning. Most of the time, he's pretty sleepy in the early going. You can get away with that as a pitcher, but not at first. So I propose that AJ cover first on all grounders hit during the first innning, except the ones hit to Iguchi, who should just run over from his position and take those unassisted. This approach will have an initially unseen benefit: Tadahito will lead the league in putouts, becoming the first Japanese second baseman to ever do so. Bud Selig will make a special presentation on Opening Day next year, honoring number 15 for a great accomplishment. I really believe in this plan.

The multiple arm angles is a bit of Cuban tradition. Luis Tiant was quite effective that way. Of course, El Duque has been quite an artist with this approach, too.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 01:45 AM) Darin Erstad's splits over the past 6 seasons. 2001 - .258/.331/.360 2002 - .283/.313/.389 2003 - .252/.309/.333 2004 - .295/.346/.400 2005 - .273/.325/.371 2006 - .238/.279/.350 None of those 6 seasons are higher than his career OPS of .757. The fact is Brady Clark, Ryan Church etc. are much better options than Erstad, who's overpaid, injury prone, and will be very lucky to get a 1/3rd of what he's making now, next season. Now, see, DBAHO, that's some actual analysis, and it makes sense (although Dye's OPS was down in the years before we got him). Anyway, I've actually thought that Erstad's status might allow us to get him a little more cheaply on a rental basis. And, again, with our bullpen being first priority, that was definitely something to consider. Plus, yeah, he has intangibles that our team seems to lack this year. But it seems for naught now. I like Church in theory, but what's going on with him this year? And is he really a centerfielder? I just haven't seen him enough to say -- and I know you're a big backer -- so what's the scoop? Like I say, the Clark idea seems to make some sense. That would be a good one to pull off.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 01:38 AM) Mercy. The only real problem I had with the Erstad idea was that he's a lefty and we need a RH hitting OF'er. I believe Dye has 1 gold glove, btw. Mercy, indeed.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 07:30 PM) Haha, what the f*** did you expect them to say? "Yeah losing Darin for the rest of the year is really a blessing in diguise I mean his replacement (Juan Rivera) is actually the superior player in this case. It's a great day for Angels baseball we lose the old, slow and bad Darin Erstad, HORRAY!!" "Two teams -- with and without Ersty I mean when we do have him we have an automatic out in the lineup but with him on the DL we don't have to see him go up there and suck for 4 ABs a game." Please, please never compare the great hitter in Jermaine Dye to that mediocre s*** offensive player by the name of Erstad. I guess we should do this this in order: (1) Jermaine Dye was the World Series MVP last year. He's having a really good year this year. And I'm not comparing who's having a better year this year. All I've been pointing out -- again, I'm having to say this to you (which is unreal) -- are players to monitor until the trade deadline. (2) Breathe deeply. Take a look to your right shoulder. Take a look over to left shoulder. Remove both of the chips that you seem to have brought to this discussion. (3) Here are some numbers for you to think about (if you're able): So let's keep in mind that what I said (and I know that can be difficult to follow when your goal is to prove your blinding baseball acumen and not to have a civil discussion -- which I've now abandoned, thanks to your attitude) was that Erstad's injury history was similar to Dye's (Remember, that's what I said, right, genius?). Here are some numbers. Again, these aren't diatribes or vitriol, so try to make an adjustment in your impressive knee-jerk approach: 2002: Games played -- Dye: 131. Erstad: 150 2003: Games played -- Dye: 65. Erstad: 67 2004: Games played -- Dye: 137. Erstad: 125 (all before we took the plunge on Dye) Total games played -- Dye: 333. Erstad: 342. Oh, and last year, too: 2005: Games played -- Dye 145. Erstad: 153 How's it look so far? Okay, now on to the batting statistics. They've both played 10 years, according to Who's Who in Baseball. Here are numbers from ESPN (you know what that is, right?): Dye's career OPS is .814, his career average is .274 and his career obp is .337. Erstad's career OPS is .757, his career average is .287 and his career obp is .341. So Dye has a higher OPS. Erstad has a higher average and OBP. Coming into this year, Dye had 192 career home runs (but he had 31 less BEFORE we took a flyer on him, and that was the point, right?). Erstad had 114. But Erstad had 278 doubles to Dye's 247, and 30 triples to Dye's 20. And he had 169 stolen bases to Dye's 34. He has 2 Gold Gloves in centerfield. Dye has 0 in right field. But Dye has a World Series ring. But, oops, so does Erstad. And Dye has 3 errors this year in 48 games in RF, while Erstad had 0 errors in 22 game in CF. Chew on those, big boy. I'm sure you'll spin all this in some impressive direction. Or maybe you'll just lash out at Erstad. I guess the evidence would point that way. Yours is an awesome talent for obfuscation. Anyway, all I did was propose a guy who could be a target. He's hurt, and it looks like he won't come back. But your big proposal was to stick with Anderson, which I thought was good to a point, too. But I wasn't prepared to pretend that would be enough. And guess what? Here we are, two weeks later, and it's not. For what it's worth, I like the Brady Clark idea that's been making the rounds. That makes sense, in large part because it probably isn't going to cost a ton. And I've also mentioned Marlon Byrd (weeks ago), who now is making an appearance in the newspapers. I guess you like Clark, but I haven't heard one other constructive idea from you. Is it someone better? Great. Why don't you say where Josh Fields, or Ray Liotta, or Tyler Lumsden, or Ryan Sweeney -- or some combination of them -- should be headed? In short, I'm not the general manager, but in the interest in having a discussion with other White Sox fans, I like to think about ways our team could go, even if they're riskier. I thought that was the point of this board. And with our bullpen in the state it's in, with that being the first priority, our team needs to be creative about centerfield. What are you interested in? I guess it's just terming players as "s***" and dismissing other posters. So be it. But let's be clear that's what you're about. It'll make life easier going forward.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:42 AM) How many times did I say this guy would be gone for the season? 4? 5? It's ridiculous that his name was ever even mentioned. Really? Ridiculous? You might want to ask Mike Scioscia about that, since he says in this very article: "He gives us a defensive presence in center field … and when you factor in the intangibles, it's a big void," Scioscia said. Or maybe you weren't aware of these comments from Adam Kennedy, in a recent Peter Gammons blog note: "We are," Adam Kennedy says, "two teams -- with and without Ersty." In short, he's a hell of a player. I think we were all aware of his injury history. We should be familiar with such a history -- because it's pretty similar to Jermaine Dye's before we got him. You know Dye, right? The guy you believe is the best rightfielder in the league? In any event, Erstad's problems staying healthy is why he was mentioned -- by me, anyway -- as someone to MONITOR while we waited on Anderson. Well, it looks like the monitoring of both is coming to an end. Turn the page.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 02:14 AM) We are getting into June and they may be tied with the Cardinals for first place later today. The already weak Cardinals who now don't have Pujols. And the rest of their division is the mediocre Brewers, the mediocre Astros, and the horrible Cubs and Pirates. The Reds have gotten off to hot starts before, but this one is different and they aren't going away....they have better pitching this time and much worse competition. Okay. I don' t advocate getting Griffey. But, my reluctant friends, are you ready to say that a "middle" solution to CF is a possibility? And if that's the case, please, please, please, stop nit-picking about the shortcomings of the possible solutions (bad arm, sometimes injured, older than you want), provided that they come relatively cheaply. Seriously. Cut the crap. If you want to pay more, tell us who you're willing to sacrifice. If you're going to stick with Anderson, tell us for how many at--bats. 250? 300? All year? Needs: (1) Bullpen. First and last. (2) CF. And stop pretending otherwise. Anderson's a prospect, and a good one. I'm a fan. He even has a spot on this team. But let's get someone who can play every day, be adequate in center (which no one, save Anderson, is on the current roster), and succeed occasionally offensively (which, nearly 200 at-bats later -- counting last year -- BA is not). Just cut the garbage about how each possible guy has some pitfall. Let's solve the problem, as best we can, and move forward.

Right now, we have a staff full of guys who appear incapable of pitching through the slightest adversity.

QUOTE(ottawa_sox @ Jun 1, 2006 -> 09:20 PM) Barry Bonds Let me add a word of support for Barry Bonds as White Sox analyst. His future pairing with Ed Farmer will produce tremendous awkward and surly interactions, as these two jokesters vie to be RadioTopDog.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2006 -> 08:15 PM) Is it being a bad fan to hope Politte gets rocked here, and makes the Sox consider another pitching roster move? Was just wondering the same thing.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 31, 2006 -> 01:23 PM) 2006 salary for Erstad...$8,750,000. Prorate over 3/4 of the year, and he still costs $6.5 million. Getting the Angels to pay part of that would cost actual talent, given that they can just let his ass walk at the end of the year. He is not "Cheap". I'm well aware of what his salary is. It would be prorated for 2 months, not 4. (I presume we'd wait on Anderson until the end of July. If you're not going to wait that long on BA, by the way, please feel free to articulate some alternatives to him right now.) And we wouldn't give up a ton in prospects because, if we thought he was the right guy, we'd pay him. Our budgetary situation is not the same as in years past. But, again, I'd rather spend that money on the pen.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 31, 2006 -> 12:55 AM) Which is why I edited the post to say I'd prefer Cameron or Erstad. We are talking about the back of the order. If Erstad is healthy (and we have a month or two to evaluate that) he is a solid pickup. He's extremely over-rated by some, but we wouldn't have to give up any top prospects to get him and he's got plenty of playoff experience. He's a very good baserunner and can get a clutch hit from time to time (don't know what his stats are, but I've seen him get plenty of em in Anaheim). Defensively he's not what he once was, but when healthy he's solid. If he proves he's not heatlhy, than thats an obvious pass. Cameron would need to prove he's healthy as well. I doubt I'd give up the prospects for Hunter, especially since I think the Twins would demand Anderson (who is a Hunter clone- TOOLS WISE) plus a guy like Valido and probably even a Whisler type). I am sure a few other solid enough CF's will enter the market, but the most important thing is finding defense. If Mark Kotsay didn't have such a high salary, I'd consider making a deal with the A's, but Beane really likes him and I think Kotsay is signed relatively long term (plus the A's aren't dealing unless they get major league help in return so it would have to be a 3 way deal; if by some shocker the A's were out of contention than there may be a possibility). I see I'm not the only one who thinks that Erstad, evaluated for the next month or two for health and batting ninth in our order, is a possibility on the cheap. I brought it up in another thread, knowing that he's always been a favorite of Kenny Willams's, is a "grinder," and is in a walk year. Nevertheless, I agree with folks here that settling our bullpen problems is a bigger concern than centerfield.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 28, 2006 -> 11:18 AM) There you go: Yeah, I said the same thing about waiting for Anderson. His defense is worth it. It's just that it would be good to have a backup plan. (And you can bet that Ken Williams is developing one.) That entails identifying players not currently on our roster, and that process should be in motion, oh, right about now. And that's all I ever suggested. Someone mentioned right-handed hitting outfielders with some speed. At the risk of being pilloried again, one guy that pops into my head is Marlon Byrd. Pedestrian all the way, but he'd fit the bill of a lower cost guy, right-handed, runs pretty well and can catch the ball.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 28, 2006 -> 10:55 AM) Hey, what do you ya know? Please, never mention Darin Erstad's name ever again in connection with the White Sox: The guy could be out for the year, woohoo $8.5M for a guy with serious ankle problems! Still waiting for your first suggestion regarding a centerfielder.

QUOTE(3E8 @ May 28, 2006 -> 02:00 AM) I'm telling you that I don't want to declare a cutoff point for Anderson's average a month or two from now that determines if he's up or down. I want him to get a full season of consistent playing time under his belt to develop a proper offensive approach at the major league level. What your ultimatum would not account for is that Anderson may progress offensively in the later months in the season, because before this year he's proved he can quickly adjust to increased pitching talent at every level of his professional career. This team is the least reliant offensively on Brian Anderson and everybody knew this coming into the season. I'm not thinking about our lineup for the postseason at this point in time and if Anderson's batting average will be good enough for us to win a World Series. I'd like at this time to concentrate on the best method of adjusting our centerfielder to major league pitching, and not give up on a rookie 100 at-bats into the year, because I think he is who we should focus on grooming for this role. Kenny probably feels the same way seeing as how he traded Reed, Rowand, and Young in a time span of a year and a half. Okay, that I understand. And I think he's going to be good. But the problem here is that they do kind of have to figure out what they have, and they should probably do it before the deadline -- not to replace him for next year and into the future, but to feel secure for the rest of this year. And there's the dilemma: July is arbitrary, I agree, but it's the trade deadline, and can they depend on Brian hitting better in August, September and October? I just don't know that. I hope he picks it up because he's a superb outfielder.

QUOTE(3E8 @ May 28, 2006 -> 01:34 AM) That makes a lot of sense. I agree, if Brian Anderson, our 9 hitter, has 32 hits by the middle of July instead of a much more suitable 37 hits, we should go out of our way to obtain a player whos offensive worth would be such a small increase, if any, over Anderson's that the downgrade we recieve in defense actually puts us in a worse position. It's about the trend line. Forget July. Forget your 5 hits. Are you seriously telling me that you want a .170 hitter as your starting centerfielder in OCTOBER? Yeah, 'cuz of all those championship teams that had those .170 hitters as starting players, all those defensive whizzes like, uh, well, er . . . Well, I guess Bud Harrelson hit about .200 for the Mets in 1973. So, yeah, I guess you're right.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 28, 2006 -> 01:15 AM) I'd rather see Jerry Owens or Rob Mackowiak out there everyday in CF before Darin Erstad. That's right, Jerry Owens, the guy isn't even a CF and I'd take him over Erstad. I'm giving Brian Anderson 200 ABs before I replace him. By that time the market for CF will have revealed itself for what it is and we'll have a legitimate idea of who's out there and available for trade. .It's still too early right now to be looking at possible trades I'm with you. All I ever said is that these were players to watch. There will be a time, however, when we have to make a move. And these are some of the name we'll be hearing. Let's hope KW can do the right thing, at the right time.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 28, 2006 -> 01:08 AM) Well Erstad is brutal from what I heard. Defensively, he's no more than mediocre after all those injury bugs in CF. Offensively, he's below average from what Angel fans are saying as well. I look at his numbers and they scream, "blah". I don't mind finding an outside answer, but Erstad and Finley definately ain't it. These are, admittedly, lower priced answers. They won't cost a ton. If we want something more, we give up something more. If we're ready to give up Josh Fields and Charlie Haeger and Tyler Lumsden, well that's another way to go, too.

Gentlemen, gentlemen . . . So much hatred of these fine young men who patrolling centerfield throughout baseball. Kalapse, my man, I've said it: if Anderson hits .210, he's my guy. And I'm willing to give him more time, too. But by the middle of July, if our friend from Tucson is hitting .165, he cannot -- and will not -- be this team's centerfielder. I love the guy, okay? I think he's going to be a good player. But that's not going to cut it. Not for me and not for Kenneth Williams. So, here we go. Who's your centerfielder for our 2006 World Series team? Name a guy. If you're all down on Erstad -- and believe me, I understand why -- please note that he won't be making $9 million for the Chicago American League ball club. He'll make 1/3 of that, at most -- because he'll be here for about 2 months. And that's assuming that we pay all of his salary. But, please, please, please, don't give me this garbage about how these aren't the guys -- because if it's not Brian Anderson, whoever it is is not on this roster right now. And he's not in Charlotte, North Carolina either. And -- regarding Finley -- all I ever said about Finley is that he was a guy to watch. The Giants may stay in it. They may not. They were under .500 for a lot of this season so far and got hot. I have no idea how that division will shake out. So, why don't we just see where we are in a bit, eh?

My two cents on the bullpen: With our starting rotation, the key is to have 3 dependable guys at any given time. Really. For instance, if you look at our pen last year, I think most people would consider it a strength. But in my view, we really had 3 guys -- at each stage of the year -- who were truly effective and didn't give me the heaves when they entered the game. Think about it. At the beginning of the year, Politte, Marte and Hermanson were good. Takatsu was getting saves, but he was never really very good. Jenks was in Double A. Cotts couldn't find the plate. By the middle of the year, Politte and Hermanson were still getting it done, and Cotts had joined them. Marte was occasionally effective, but extremely erratic. Takatsu was banished to the back of the pen. By the end of the year, Politte and Cotts were effective, and Jenks had emerged. Hermanson could pitch once a week, if that. Marte was a basket case. Now, this year, Jenks has been up and down, but generally good in save situations, and really in a groove right now. McCarthy was tough during the first few weeks but has been undependable since. Cotts has generally been effective, despite a rough start and some blips during the past few outings. Politte (who I now have to say, having written the above, was really our most consistent reliever last year) has outright sucked this year. Thornton's been good lately, but still needs to earn our trust. So what do we have, really? Jenks. That's one guy. If Cotts remains pretty solid and Thornton continues along, maybe you have your three. But we don't have it yet. We might not be that far away. I'm not saying that having more than 3 dependable guys isn't important. It is. But if we can get those 3, roles and otherwise will follow from there. I'd say at least one reinforcement may be on the way. That's my guess.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 28, 2006 -> 12:19 AM) Well, he did retire at the ripe old age of 33. Gang, I said it in the game thread (which was split into the CF thread), and I'll say it here. Kenny Williams is going to be looking at other solutions in centerfield, and some of them will be lower cost, like . . . ahem . . . Erstad, Pierre and Finley. They're "middle" solutions -- in a walk year, don't cost a ton, can hit enough to justify hitting 8th or 9th, and will catch the ball (even if, as in the case of Pierre, they can't throw the damn thing) until the 7th inning. And that's when Brian Anderson will be in the game. And, by the way, for those who doubt that Erstad possibility, remember two things: Gload's on this roster because he can play first base. So can Erstad. In that scenario, Anderson stays here and can play any outfield position as a back-up. And second, Ken Williams loves the guy (Erstad). Always has. And when Kenny loves you -- when he thinks you're a grinder -- Kenny loves you forever. And he'll do what he can to make you a member of the Chicago White Sox.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 27, 2006 -> 07:31 PM) Well said. If Crede wasn't ranging far to his left, I'd hate to see how badly Uribe would be hurting the sox Hawk mentioned that the sox have just surpassed the missed DP's from all of last yr with Uribe's miss today The sox are far from the worst Cf situation. Esp with Anderson's above avg glove and range. The guy's a rook with skills on defense and offense. He needs some time. IMO, he'll be around all year and be a big help down the stretch. I want to add that, notwithstanding my thoughts about possible centerfielders to keep an eye on, my preference is to stick with Anderson, provided he can hit about .210. Seriously. For some reason, in my mind, that's my magic number -- because he's a superb outfielder.