shoota

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:34 PM) The crappiest arm on the staff is the most expendable in the case of a suspension or injury-causing brawl. Vazquez would be a very large loss. Tracey is a loss we can laugh off. It's all excellent risk management on Ozzie's part. I understand that resoning and disagree with it. I believe all pitchers have the duty to protect their teammates, not just the last man on the staff. You're wrong in stating that retaliation from Vazquez would have been "a very large loss." Vazquez had an opportunity to retaliate after AJP was hit the first time, but didn't, even though he thought Padilla hit AJP on purpose in that at bat. Since no warnings had been issued at that time, it's unlikely Vazquez would have even been thrown out, let alone suspended.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 02:54 AM) He won't change. That's the Guillen we're going to have to deal with. He's a passionate Latin manager who -- more often than not -- crosses the boundaries. I'm not surprised he did it. Honestly, I'm more upset Vazquez couldn't take it within himself to hit a batter. This is speculation on my part, but I believe he was more concerned with keeping Texas off base than retaliating for his catcher. Probably didn't have any confidence in himself and was unwilling to give TExas extra baserunners. I hate that reasoning. Any time Ozzie's passion gets out of control he isn't responsible because that's just his personality? Bulls***. Wrong is wrong no matter what type of "flavor" a person has.

Why does Ozzie always order the worst bullpen pitcher to protect their teammates? Last year it was Adkins; last night it was Tracey, who's also a rookie. It's hypocritical of Ozzie to punish Tracey for not protecting his teammates when Ozzie didn't order Vazquez to hit a Ranger earlier in the game. I bet Sox hitters are more grateful to Tracey for attempting to protect them than to Vazquez, who refused to even throw a brushback pitch to any Ranger batter.

I'm starting to lean against any type of retaliation from the Sox. If there is negative history between Ozzie and Showalter, Showalter obviously ordered AJP hit twice because of AJ's reputation. Showalter was looking for AJ to respond and make the highlight shows, further damaging AJ's reputation. So since Showalter is looking for a response, don't give it to him. Not giving him what he wants and expectes will anger him more than a physical retaliation. Ozzie should take the higher road and when questioned post game on why he didn't order a retaliation, say: "That's not how we World Champions play baseball." That'll burn Showalter further.

Is there history between Padilla and AJP?

Comiskey needs an upper deck.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 14, 2006 -> 08:31 PM) TV Crew Radio Crew Crede Uribe Mackowiak Am I missing anyone? I like Farmer.

I'm not impressed with Mackowiak.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Jun 14, 2006 -> 06:39 PM) Dominance in reliever form: At least he'll probably be the best available. He would satisfy my request for a dominant bullpen arm. Is he really available though? Looking at his stats, it appears SD owns his rights for the next 3 years. He's young, cheap and good. Why would SD want to trade him away?

I prefer avoiding the mediocre route because I don't see the value in them. What we need is a Dustin Hermanson or Cliff Politte of 2005. That type of pitcher can improve our bullpen, make us tougher in the playoffs and might even be the difference in repeating or not. THINK DOMINANCE.

QUOTE(knightni @ Jun 14, 2006 -> 04:55 PM) I don't like it. The Sox need to make a move before he tries to pitch through his pain. 60-DL him and let him have surgery now so that he can get ready for the ALDS like Maroth is doing. Strongly agree. Mediocrity doesn't win Championships; Dominance does.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 14, 2006 -> 09:11 AM) His arm and presence were so invaluable to us last year. Thanks Big D Great picture of a great pitcher. I thank him for his sacrifice and hope he enjoys the ring he earned. The Trib ran an interview of him on the back page of the sports section. In it, I discovered good insight to his nature, and was impressed with his values and faith. Dustin Hermanson is a good man.

QUOTE(SoxFan76 @ Jun 14, 2006 -> 10:04 AM) shoota, you haven't changed. Flinging your crap at another message board now? As soon as Crede started hitting for that high average this year, believe it or not you were one of the first people I thought of. I wanted to see your opinions, but then you were banned. I admit Crede's been a completely different hitter since coming of the DL late last season. I think criticism of his offense since that point is inappropriate.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 13, 2006 -> 10:04 PM) He said Crede isn't a good defensive player after one bad game. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...dpost&p=1164935 JoeBatterz, thanks for your reasonable statement. Please read the thread linked and take my posts as written, and not through the false interpretation of other posters, like the one quoted above. I did not state Crede isn't a good defensive player. I did say this: "Crede's defense is overvalued and does not deserve the level of respect he receives from Sox fans and announcers."

QUOTE(Damen @ Jun 13, 2006 -> 06:33 PM) He sucks for dressing like this when he goes to the beach. In my best Borat voice: "Very niiice."

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 10:14 PM) That's 20% of the team right there. That's called blowing it up. We have different opinions on the definition of blowing up a team. I believe a team is blown up when its core fails and a team has a firesale to build for the future. Since I like the 2006 Sox's core, I only want 3 position upgrades (two of them being bullpen pitchers) and as I said above, only want upgraded starting pitching if Garland and Garcia can't return to last season's form. So depeding on the performances of Garland and Garcia, I'd only want to replace as few as 3 players for the stretch run. That's certainly not blowing up a team, IMO. Perhaps "retool" would be a more accurate compromise of tweak and blowing up.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 06:31 AM) A new shortstop, batting coach, third baseman, announcers and centerfielder is hardly tweaked. Don't forget I want two more dominant bullpen pitchers. While I still have plenty of criticism of Joe Crede, I can't honestly say that I want him replaced. And Anderson has my support in center. I do want a new SS, hitting coach, two lights-out bullpen pitchers and replacements for Garcia and Garland if they cannot pitch as well as they did last season. That might be more than a tweak, but still short of blowing up the team.

QUOTE(jenksd @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 11:28 PM) Or they're mocking the fickle reasoning behind your dislike of certain players. Especially considering the fact that the real knocks against those players are existent and you just haven't conveyed a moderately coherent or respectable way of using those points to argue. Instead you're acting like remaining adamant and close-minded about your opinion is simply enough to be right. But that's just my guess. That's a possible explaination for my behavior, but doesn't account for the behavior of other posters who used an ad hominem attack instead of stating their case for Juan Uribe.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 06:44 PM) Shoota, you generally want this team blown up and started over, dont you? Haha, naw, just tweaked.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 11:51 PM) And just who is going to come in and "get the f***ing job done"? This is the third time I've asked. Just because I correctly identify that Garcia and Garland are pitching poorly doesn't mean I must find a realistic upgrade for my claim to have merit.

Why the need for a micro look into our pitchers' performaces when a macro look does just fine: ERA Buehrle: 3.21 Vazquez: 4.19 Contreras: 2.54 Garcia: 5.13 Garland: 6.19 If your ERA is bad, and you raise it by giving up 7 runs in a game, expect others to clamor for someone who can get the f***ing job done.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 11:22 PM) No, I'm just saying that they've never done it before. The chances of four of their starters to have career years simultaneously isn't that high. It's not an argument. It's a question. My God. :rolly I'll ask one more time: What "upgrade" are you talking about. Horrible. Simply horrible.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 11:07 PM) Boy, that's putting it lightly. That season was the end of Sirotka's career. Parque never pitched a full season again. Eldred had so many problems with his elbow that he had to move to middle relief. Baldwin had an unimpressive year with Seattle and fizzled out after '01. You're missing the point. You compared the Sox's young 2000 rotation to the 2006 Tigers rotation as evidence that the Tigers rotation won't sustain long-term success. I countered saying that even if the 2006 Tigers rotation never wins a game after this season, they are, like the 2000 Sox, capable of winning their division. This obviously has a negative impact on our 2006 White Sox because then our only route to postseason play would be via the Wild Card. QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 11:07 PM) Detroit very well may win the division. And they might get swept in the playoffs, just like the 2000 Sox. So, who do you suggest that we upgrade our rotation with? And how would you accomplish that AND address our horrible bullpen situation? IT'S IRRELEVANT TO OUR WHITE SOX how well or poor the Tigers perform in the playoffs if they win the division. It is their regular season play that can hurt our team's chances at postseason play. As far as how I suggest we upgrade our rotation, that's a poor argument. Even if I have no clue as to who to replace Freddy and Garland with, that does not mean the performances of those two doesn't merit upgrade--which is exactly what this discussion is about.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 10:55 PM) Garcia was hitting 94 MPH on the gun today. What's the difference if the Sox lose because Buehrle gives up 5 ER in 6.2 IP against CC Sabathia and the Sox lose 10-8 after Garcia gives up 8 ER in 5.2 IP? Garcia's overall ERA takes a hit, but regardless they both pitched like s*** against the same team and were a direct result of the Sox losing. I concede ignorance to staying updated on Freddy's velocity, but even if he was posting 94 MPH on the gun today, is his velocity and consistency of velocity down from last season? For discussion's sake, let's assume Freddy's velocity is as high as ever. His ERA is still 5.13 (a run higher than his career average) and he's pitching worse than expected. The difference in your example is that Buehrle pitched better than Garcia, like he has all year to an ERA of about 2 runs less.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 10:37 PM) People here already understand that. But your hard-on for a pitching staff that hasn't done anything noteworthy over the long run doesn't make any sense. The Sox had a "good staff" in the first half of 2000. How'd that work out? That's not a good example to use in your argument. Sure the young 2000 Sox rotation didn't sustain success after the 2000 season, but it was good enough to win its division that year, which means Detroit's young rotation could be good enough to win our division this year. Though the Wild Card is another way to earn entry into the playoffs, I certainly would not want to lose the division because of the mindset that our starting 5 is better than Detroit's and does not need to be upgraded.