shoota

QUOTE(jenksd @ Jun 10, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) yeah, f*** defense lets outslug em with ALEX CINTRON When the alternative is Juan Uribe, that's a good idea. Uribe made another defensive miscue today, failing to throw accurately to Konerko to complete what should have been a routine double play.

I was sold on Anderson weeks ago, and pointed out to friends last night that if he doesn't make that catch, the Sox lose the game. He prevented two runs and gave his team a chance at winning. Mackowiak does not make that catch. Brian Anderson is a great centerfielder.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 10, 2006 -> 01:02 PM) So, we're supposed to permanently replace him with Cintron? LOL, that's a joke. How about A-Rod? Or Tejada? Apparently you weren't paying attention last season. Our offense was below-average last year (9th in the league in runs scored and 11th in OBP), yet we dominated because of pitching and defense. This season, the Sox rank 4th in the AL in runs scored, 6th in OBP, and 4th in slugging. The pitching staff is getting plenty of run support. Apparently you haven't been paying attention to this season. The pitching part of the pitching and defense equation is worse than it was last year, therefore your reasoning is as solid as water. Besides that, no matter how good a team is, if there is a way to make it better, like switching a starting SS with a backup, you do it.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 10, 2006 -> 11:54 AM) He also has a well known history of making completely obsessive posts about particular players that are not only negative, but downright creepy. @Shoota... One of your points is that Uribe doesn't work counts? Look at Alex f***in Cintron's numbers. I'm sorry, but a couple big games doesn't make Cintron better. I wish we could ask our pitching staff who they want at short. Finally, the offensive production of your SS (8th hole) isn't nearly as important as his defensive production. Sure, Uribe's had some lapses recently, but he's so much better than Cintron (or most in baseball) that it's not even comparable. I love the caveats you use in defense of Uribe: He's GOOD...for an 8th place hitter; He's GOOD...if we're only counting defense; Uribe's Good...when compared to a bench player. Your pitching staff point is weak because you're assuming Sox pitchers value greater than average defense over additional offense. Your statement ignores that pitchers do enjoy run support and racking Ws.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 10, 2006 -> 11:40 AM) He is making a suggestion that he believes would make the team better. Yeah, what a s***ty fan. Thanks Milkman.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 10, 2006 -> 11:22 AM) You suck at being a Sox fan. So Uribe's your new Crede? Haven't you noticed we're a defensive team first? Have you noticed that our pitching staff has been lagging with some of the recent defensive troubles? For a guy that sucks at baseball, he sure had a pretty good 04 at the plate. He also lead our team in sacrifices last year and was near the top, in all of baseball, at productive outs. Sure, he's struggling right now. You don't abandon the anchor of your IF defense for a few points in .AVE. Cintron's a UT player for a reason. He's not very good defensively. He can't take a walk to save his life. He has speed but can't steal a base. He's not good enough to oust Uribe. Please provide a link to the productive out stat. I can see Iguchi near the top of the league in productive outs, but not Uribe. The argument that the Sox are a defensive team first is poor. If Cintron's offense helps the team more than Uribe's defense, Cintron should be the starter. Of course that's hard to compare, but became quite easy to evaluate over the past week. You say Uribe shouldn't be unseated because of Cintron's few points in batting average but do not mention Cintron's two game-winning hits in the past week. My opinion of Uribe is not just based on numbers. His batting approach is frustrating as s***. He doesn't work a count, draw walks or have a plan at the plate. He's still trying to "get off the island."

It's a hard thing to say after his amazing plays to record the last two outs of the World Series, but he needs to be benched. The reason he's still playing is because of his defense, and when he makes dumb plays like he did tonight, his value lessens. I'm comfortable in betting that he has peaked as a hitter and will never have a Crede-like turnaround where he will hit much better than he is now. So since he can't hit and never will, and Cintron can, Uribe must lose his starting position to Cintron.

That'd be great to have since their prices are very high. I guess some increase in price is due to their location, but not to the extent they charge. Their hat prices are surprisingly average though.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) I agree Mike... You know I am getting sick and tired of these reactionary posts to specific situations and their subsequent trashing of good players on our team. First the Thome post , now Crede. Their history and stats speak for themselves. to Shoota: Crede is one of the BEST defensive 3rd baseman in the game. Period. You have NO facts to back up your claim except your twisted agenda. QUOTE(J-MAN @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 09:44 AM) If you watched the playoff games and world series you would realize he is an above average 3rd baseman. As a matter of fact since you don't watch much - he made an above average play on the very next ball put in play !!!!!! Can't I agree that he's one of the better defensive 3Bman in the game while also stating he's overrated defensively?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 11:09 PM) Maybe you should stick to WSI. I plan on going back after my lifetime ban expires. Seriously, I'm just trying to inform another segment of Sox fans who may have been blinded to the insight I awaken in them.

Nice job by Cintron and Thome picking up Crede's two errors that cost the Sox the lead in the 7th inning.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) If that's the definition of an error it proves my point That's the most subjective definition possible. If Rob Mackowiak takes a horrible path to a gapper and ends up 3 feet from catching it, currently, that is not an error. It was a terrible play, but not an "error". The whole "error" as defensive measure is stupid. Sure, I'm not going to sit here and argue errors are a good thing, it's just silly though to use them as any sort of measure of defensive play, when much better measures exist. Crede should have made that play, this we are in agreement about. I disagree with everhthing else you've said. QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) So you are saying that it's a play every other player in the MLB makes because it was judged an error by an offcial scorer? That's about the worst reasoning ever. Official scorer's aren't exactly 100% accurate either. I didn't see the play...however, from what I have read, it was apparently a somewhat tough play to make, and only the throw should have been scored an error. Great point about the subjective nature of errors. I brought up the same point last season over at WSI. For your own enlightenment, you can search my posts that listed Crede's misplays that weren't recorded as errors--something I termed "unofficial errors."

Great point witesoxfan, though off the mark. By definition, if a player errors, he fails to make a play that's expected of MLB players. Even if I've never seen another 3Bman play, I know by the official scorer's tally that Crede failed to make a play that every other 3Bman is expected to make.

QUOTE(3RDBASE @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 10:11 PM) You never watch Espn or any highlights? I guess your right...Dumb DJ fire that idiot and trade Crede because he is proving himself worthless! :rolly I don't think Web Gem highlights are an accurate way to evaluate the defensive ability of a player because of the small sample size of that player's defensive chances. As for your second comment, nowhere did I lobby for DJ's firing or suggest Crede gets traded.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 10:07 PM) Well, according to a guy who is considered one of the best minds when it comes to the game of baseaball Joe Crede is the best defensive 3B in the league. But I'm sure you know more than Steve Stone. I certainly do not have more knowledge of the game of baseball than Steve Stone, but it's likely that I've seen more White Sox games with Joe Crede at third base than Stone has.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:57 PM) How many times over the past few seasons have you seen Joe Crede make good defensive plays at 3B, compared to a lot of other third baseman? That's hard to say since I don't watch many MLB games outside of Sox games, and can't follow other 3Bmen regularly. No matter how many times I've seen Crede field a good play, it doesn't exempt him from his bad ones and the fact that he receives more praise for his defensive ability than deserved. This point returns me back to my first post where I criticized DJ for making excuses for Crede's two errors and mentioning Crede's good points as if he's trying to sell a used car.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:44 PM) Okay you can just stop right there. Don't make yourself look like an idiot. Please explain why I'm an idiot and if you believe Crede is good at making that type of play. QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:44 PM) It was a sharply hit ball that he had to take on the inbetween hop. Your insinuation that "any other 3b makes that play" is greatly exaggerated. The throw was stupid, but the stop itself was far from routine. I was disappointed that he earned an error on it. The ball bounced out of Crede's glove. QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:46 PM) How many different third baseman would you like right now, compared to the contract, age etc. that you have to factor in for Crede? I can only think of David Wright and maybe Ryan Zimmerman off the top of my head. Crede's hitting much better this season, and he's in a little bit of a slump on the field at the moment. Doesn't mean you should be jumping off a bridge saying how overrated he is. I never stated this year that I want Crede replaced, so your post is irrelevant.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:38 PM) Congrats on naming 2 plays that he's screwed up, do you have any idea how many s*** plays you get from other 3B around the league? A whole hell of a lot more than Crede. If you're going to critique the guy pick something else because the one thing you're not going to convince anyone of is that his defense is overrated. OK, Crede also struggles greatly coming in on bunts and swinging bunts. He does not have a bare-hand move in his repertoire.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:16 PM) shut up. he also scored the go ahead run. give the guy a break, he makes almost every play. Maybe I wasn't clear in my first post: Yes I'm upset at Crede for his lack of ability, but this thread was intended to be more of a criticism of announcers who try to patronize viewers instead of calling a play on its own. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) If there's one player on this team who deserves a free pass on defense it's Joe Crede. He's saved countless runs in the past and has always been incredibly clutch defensively as well. Like his dropped foul popup against Boston last year? CLUTCH. Crede's defense is overvalued and does not deserve the level of respect he receives from Sox fans and announcers.

QUOTE(chiguy79 @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:11 PM) errors happen...remember many game saving plays he makes that other 3B don't make... Good point DJ.

How come every time Crede makes an error, DJ and Hawk have to defend him by saying how rare it is for him to error and that he's still "the best defensive 3bman in the business"? Crede committed two errors on one play which any other 3Bman would have made and ended the inning, allowing the Sox to retain their 3-2 lead instead of giving the First-place Tigers a gift tieing run in the 7th inning. QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 7, 2006 -> 09:04 PM) How come every time Crede makes an error, DJ and Hawk have to defend him by saying how rare it is for him to error and that he's still "the best defensive 3bman in the business"? Crede committed two errors on one play which any other 3Bman would have made and ended the inning, allowing the Sox to retain their 3-2 lead instead of giving the First-place Tigers a gift tieing run in the 7th inning. I'm insulted by announcers who try to excuse a player's error by saying how he's made that play in the past, how much he's contributed to the team this year, etc. They give praise where criticism is necessary.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 1, 2006 -> 03:04 PM) I feel these kids' parents are the kind that push them to be perfect to the point that the kids can't even enjoy themselves. That's a great point. We always hear about the pushy Little League Dad living his life through his son, but the parents of spelling bee nerds are much more damaging to their kids' lives than the former.

social retards

Get some dominant bullpen help now. Thank you. I don't want to hear how difficult that is to acquire, it's your job. You haven't had anything more important to do since Spring Training, so get off your ass and deal. Politte is done, Jenks, Cotts and Thornton are only decent this year, and the rest of your bullpen isn't worth mention.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ May 21, 2006 -> 08:15 PM) He's a .260 lifetime hitter. Really, his 04, career year, was pretty much on par with the "great" Aaron Rowand's 04, while playing better defense. Uribe's going to be fine. No, he's not a patient hitter, but he does some things well with the bat. He had a ton of productive outs last year and had a ton of sacrifices. He's had a bad month and half. He's also capable of getting really hot over an extended period and evening those numbers out a little. Our offense is fine. We need to stick with what this team's really all about, good pitching and defense. Cintron's not even in Uribe's league defensively. The few more hits he'll get you don't outweigh that. It's the same as BA vs. Mack IMO. You make the point that Cintron is slightly better offensively than Uribe, and admit Uribe is in an offensive slump, so what do you think of the idea of starting Cintron for a couple weeks to give Uribe time to work with Walker on his swing?