max power

I really wouldn't doubt this to be true, not that anyone else would. I wrote a 15 page paper on scientology that almost got published.

QUOTE(CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) If 95% of ST doesn't get it why are 77% in favor of the trade ? They are not measuring the same thing. One is a statement about a single trade. One is a statement about the make up of the entire team including its farm system. They are related but not the same.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 07:54 AM) The Sox ARE rebuilding. They are just doing it in a way as not to lose all of the season ticket base that the World Series victory has earned them. The Sox have no farm because they traded the farm for young talent to use now. Let the next 3 years draft with the new scouting overhaul restock the farm. Crede replaced by Fields Pods replaced by Quentin Danks and Floyd to the rotation Freddie and Garland gone Richar in place of Iguchi Swish locked up for 4+ years Mark extended Dye extended He's not done yet If Konerko is traded in a deal that lands Kendrick, the Sox will be loaded with young cheap potential all-stars instead of potential serviceable roster fodder. Then, lets think big and sign Johan Santana next off season. This team isn't making a run for this year. KW is making a run for the rest of the decade and beyond. KW is doing exactly what he needs to do, rebuild without losing the fans that allow him to have his NOT CHEAP over a 100 million payroll. Not all of his moves work out. Sometimes he needs to go to plan b,c,d...., but he finds a way. KW sharp, aggressive, loves the Sox organization, and without doubt wants to win badly. Best of all, he learns from his mistakes and moves that don't work and will only keep getting better. I would appreciate it if people would get off of his back. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion and Soxtalk is a wonderful place to express it. I'll just avoid Soxfest so I'm not embarrassed by the fan who has the audacity to scold our GM for not paying 80 mil for Hunter or 60 for Rowand. He deserves kudos for bringing in Swish, Ocab, Linebrink, and Ramirez. If he brings us Kendrick, he deserves a standing ovation. This will get lost in this huge Swish thread, but I feel better. No, I'm not related to KW as far as I know but I'd like to shake his hand, look him in the eye and say thank you and keep up the good work. I agree with you completely. This post shouldn't get lost, I hope it doesn't. People will continue to complain no matter what Kenny does, and only support him when they see results. Its just pure skepticism I guess, and I think being a skeptic is generally intelligent. You certainly don't want to be the opposite, someone who assumes too much. Still, at some point, people should take their skepticism one step further and become skeptics of their skepticism, and instead aim for objectivity. Sadly, that'll never happen to the hoi polloi, and avoiding soxfest, even this board to some extent, is something I've considered as a result. The knee jerk reaction to this post will be "you're avoiding the truth." I am not. If we suck, we suck. I feel there is a good chance of the sox missing the playoffs. I am comfortable with that. A short time ago people were complaining that the sox were the SF giants of the AL. Due to the moves Kenny has made so far, we are younger, more talented, and more financially flexible in the future. Having a group of young guys will be fun to watch for me, to see how they pan out and develop, regardless of if the team wins. Of course wins are important too, and I will let Kenny do his thing for a few more months, and say whatever he wants to say whether he believes it or not, before I judge whether this team can contend. I already think that with a bit of luck, and some of the young guys living up to their potential it can.

I am now considering turning them off.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:28 PM) People are starting to think I hate this trade because of Sweeney being gone. While I will miss Sweeney as I was a huge fan of his, I hate this trade because we gave up a future ace, yes ace, in DLS. Believing you know for sure that DLS is an ace and being mad for that reason, is much more ridiculous than your man crush reason, imo. I don't even know for sure that DLS is a future MLB starter.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:43 PM) My love affair with Ryan Sweeney has nothing to do with the direction this team is going in. The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA and as we all have seen, Kenny Williams in unwilling to do that. Swisher is a nice player, but he isn't a FHOF and he isn't Miguel Cabrera. Look at all the good teams in baseball, all of them have good farm systems, except the Tigers now, but they got Cabrera and a pitching staff. The only way we will compete in 2008 is if we average at least 5-6 runs per game. I respectfully disagree. I think your negativity, like most people's here, is holistic and therefore everything is intertwined to a certain extent. No, that's not the only way we compete.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:18 PM) Maybe more like a disgruntled fan who hates the direction this team is going in. Maybe no. Objectively, he is right. Sorry, no offense. Look at your sig. You might want to just get a sign that says "The end is nigh" and stand outside US Cellular field.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 05:15 PM) I think people will realize Crede is a little better than they think once he is gone, if he is healthy. Maybe, but he has one year left on his deal, borass as his agent, and josh fields to replace him. May as well get something for him.

QUOTE(Hawkfan @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 12:49 PM) This has probably already been addressed but is it possible for crede's trade value to go down because every team knows we have nowhere to play him and we are forced to get rid of him? Brooks Robinson's trade value only goes up, never down.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:43 PM) You looked at the career averages of a 25 year old player, ignoring the statistical trends, and concluded he sucks? Don't you think career averages are quite misleading in this case? Especially when you consider Bonderman was 9-1 w/ 3.48 ERA in 16 first half starts (continuing his career trend) until dealing with elbow trouble the rest of the season. I could understand looking at career averages for pitchers who jump around statistically, but the trends in these cases are pretty steady. I think what is important is that he has played enough seasons to be evaluated to a certain degree, not how old he is. This all started with me saying he is a question mark, I believe. That was my point. "Sucks" was an exaggeration.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) Up until last season, Robertson and Bonderman were steadily improving each season in the bigs. They certainly haven't proven they suck. If these guys suck what the hell does that make Contreras who has been in steady decline or Danks/Floyd who have done jack s*** in the bigs? I love how some people point to other teams players and say they suck after down seasons, yet they are the same people pointing to some of the Sox players' down years as reasons why the Sox will be better in 2008. Which is it? Let's be realistic here. I only used the word proven because some other poster did. Obviously nothing in baseball is completely proven. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I looked at their career averages. They are below average pitchers. People keep putting words in my mouth, saying I am basing my opinion on one down year. I am not. I thought I made that clear already. Is English your second language? I feel like this is a tigers fan site lately.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:10 AM) Who's proven to suck? Why because a couple of them had one down year last season? If that's the case, Contreras is the worst SP in the AL, Danks is horrendous, and Floyd is garbage. Look at their entire careers. That's what I did. They've had one good year each.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:05 AM) The major difference between the Sox' and Tigers' rotations is this...their question marks are proven at the Major League level. The questions they have is what level they will perform at, but you can bet that all of them will be effective enough to remain at the Major League level. We don't even know if 40% of our rotation can even pitch at the Major League level. Detroit's rotation is a lot more stable going into this season. Yeah, two are proven to suck and one is proven to be 43 years old. So what does that prove?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 10:41 AM) Nate Robertson has turned into a decent 3 or 4 starter. Kenny Rogers is still a decent 3 or 4 starter. Dontrelle Willis will be a decent 3 or 4 starter, and I think he'll be very good his first couple times around the AL. Verlander's a stud, and Bonderman should be pretty solid - I'm still waiting for him to break through, but he never has. Perhaps that's next year; his career has thus far mimicked Jon Garland's pretty well, and Garland had a monster year in his age 25 season. Perhaps Bonderman will, hopefully he doesn't. Only time will tell. Regardless, I'd much rather have Detroit's rotation than the Sox' rotation. They do provide experience, and have all been very solid recently, which cannot be said about 3/5ths of the White Sox rotation. Neither are very good, but I do believe that Detroit's is better and has a higher upside. Nothing that I can see about what nate did last year was decent.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 09:24 AM) I need to smoke whatever it is you are smoking with that statement. Whose is more questionable? Dontrelle willis is coming off a s*** year in the NL. Kenny Rogers is 110 years old and was injured all year. Bonderman has had one good year, he sucks. Robertson the same, he sucks. All they have is Verlander, who projects according to one source to have a 3.76 era this coming year. The other guy who might make the rotation has very little big league experience. How often do guys come up and pitch well in their first major experience? Not very. They have one guy they can reasonable expect to have a good year. Even the sox have two.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:33 PM) and almost as bad as Detroit! lol, I know you are kidding but I honestly believe we will finish the year with a better record than detroit. Their rotation is the most questionable in the AL central.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2007 -> 04:47 PM) Well, one big problem with your analysis there is that you're comparing apples and oranges; you're comparing Joe Crede's career best year, by far, to Josh Fields's rookie 2/3 of a season, which is why you conclude that Joe gives you a better BA/RBI number. Another problem is Josh has a better RBI/game number even if you were comparing the two. These crede fan boys really crack me up.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 28, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) Is this a trick question? Jon Adkins No, I just didn't remember.

What did we get for ray in 2002?

QUOTE(shipps @ Dec 28, 2007 -> 09:40 AM) I would rather have Fields and a healthy Crede on the field if the season started today.I want Quentin to prove to me that he deserves to be out there.I personally do not think Quentin is one of the most talented young players on the team.If he can beat out Josh than that will create a good problem for our organization. That's weird. I think Quentin is by far the most talented player on the team. His minor league stats say that to me.

QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Dec 27, 2007 -> 08:28 AM) We have no major league lead off man, second baseman, left or center fielder. Other than that, we are ready We have a young, talented player in left field, second base, and center field(not quite as talented). I bet you complain about how old this team is too. Frankly I'm tired of this s***.

QUOTE(JohnCangelosi @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 06:13 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1553218:date=Dec 26, 2007 -> 06:08 PM:name=max power)-->QUOTE(max power @ Dec 26, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) <!--quotec-->No thanks. You said "if he is going to be healthy, he will this season." I don't think he will this season. We've got a guy who will likely put up a higher OBP if he stays healthy in LF already. Do you think Jerry Owens will be that guy? Or are you talking about Carlos Quentin? Well, if thats the case, then I say we just put our hopes on Jerry Owens in CF this year and leading off which is mildly disturbing... I'm talking about Quentin in LF. That's the only position pods can play. If he can even play that position. Jerry Owens would be playing regardless CF at least some of the time regardless of if we got pods, unless we make another move. So I'd rather have Quentin out there than pods, even if Quentin lead off.

No thanks. You said "if he is going to be healthy, he will this season." I don't think he will this season. We've got a guy who will likely put up a higher OBP if he stays healthy in LF already.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) I'd be willing to bet he doesn't end up with the Padres. Funny I got redirected to this post.

I'm not replying because I would only base my opinion off of some weird combination of everyone else's here on this board, not in this thread necessarily.