Capn12

OK, I saw someone asking about this somewhere on a post, so I did a little bit of research. Here is where the Sox stand in terms of 2004 payroll. It is indeed not real pretty right now: Billy Koch: $6.375 mil Paul Konerko: $8.0 mil *Esteban Loaiza: $3.5 mil Magglio Ordonez: $14.0 mil *Frank Thomas: $6.0 mil ---------------------------------- Thats $37.875 million in 5 players. The *'s designate that those salarise are based on options held on the named players that the Sox/player are expected to exercise. Also, you must consider the fact that guys like Joe Crede, Miguel Olivo, Aaron Rowand, Dan Wright and Willie Harris can be salary controlled by the club due to MLB service time. Also, we have Buehrle, CLee, Garland, and Wunsch that can go to arbitration. Finally, we have Robbie, Sandy, Jose, Graffy, Sullivan, Flash, Colon and Marte that can look at Free Agency. The guys in charge have some serious issues to consider for alot of these guys.

Just thought it was interesting to look at some other players contracts. Heres a few interesting ones: Todd Helton 1B COL Signed Mar 2001 - 9 years/$141.5M 2003: $10.6M 2004: $11.6M 2005: $12.6M 2006: $16.6M 2007: $16.6M 2008: $16.6M 2009: $16.6M 2010: $16.6M 2011: $19.1M 2012: Team option $23.0M or $4.6M buyout -Can void the deal after 2007 ---OK, this guy is 30 right now. Yes, he is an UNBELIEVABLE talent, but he is signed at $16 mil minimum until he is 39!!! Ouch. Mike Hampton LHP ATL Signed Dec 2000 - 8 years/$121M 2001: $8.0M (+$20.0M signing bonus deferred until end of contract) 2002: $8.5M 2003: $11.0M [ATL $2.0M / FLA $9.0M] 2004: $12.0M [ATL $2.0M / FLA $10.0M] 2005: $12.5M [ATL $1.5M / FLA $11.0M] 2006: $13.5M 2007: $14.5M 2008: $15.0M 2009: Team option $20.0M or $6.0M buyout -S/b: $1M to charity, $19M paid in 10 annual instalments -Bonuses: $150K MVP WS, $100K Cy Young/MVP LCS, $50K 2-5 Cy Young voting/MVP LDS, $25K AS selection/Gold Glove/Silver Slugger -After trades: COL pays signing bonus, 2003-5 as above, 2006-9 ATL liable ---For the next 2 years, the Braves got a HUGE deal in Hampton, IMO. That deal was amazing for Hampton to have gotten when Colorado and O'Dowd were going crazy with the contracts. He is still one of my favorite players. Chan Ho Park RHP TEX Signed Dec 2001 - 5 years/$65M 2002: $11.0M 2003: $12.0M 2004: $13.0M 2005: $14.0M 2006: $15.0M -Can void deal after 2002 unless team pays additional $6M by Nov 10th ---Good lord, I'd HATE to be stuck with that contract. What bad planning.

Just thought I'd pass this tidbit of info along, concerning Colon's past salary information: Bartolo Colon RHP CHW Signed Mar 1999 - 5 years/$17.25M 1999: $0.5M (+$0.5M signing bonus) 2000: $1.0M 2001: $2.5M 2002: $4.5M 2003: $8.25M option exercised 2004: Free Agent -2003 option can rise from $6M to $8.25M if he meets incentives This guys financial status has almost doubled ever year...at some point, he has to reach his cap, and I think that the 12-13 that the Sox offered him is it. If there is another team to offer him more, and I don't think that there will be, then its the defination of overpaying.

Me thinks you are right on that one, Killa....JR had to do some serious swallowing of pride just to offer that to Colon. He damn sure isn't gonna leave that offer out for another pitcher.

I'm still thinking that the Sox are gonna give Reed or AaRow every opportunity in March to win the CF job. In-house players have the inside track IMO, and we really don't need to focus on spending $$$ at CF. SS and 2B, along with SP are our needs. I think we are all jumping the gun on Colon. The guy is probably gonna find out that the FA market isn't what his agent is telling him it will be. The big money owners aren't gonna be forking out the dough this year. That $12 mill per season will start looking mighty tempting at that point.

Jas, I'm a bit confused...Cabrerra? SUrely you don't mean Floridas Miguel Cabrerra?? Theres NO WAY they let that young man get away, maybe 3 months ago, but not now. Second and short are our concerns in terms of position players.....and after having some time to think about it, I'm not sure if Robbie is our answer. His hitting has just went down south in a hurry. Yeah he can still field better than most second basemen, but with him hitting #1 or 2 in the batting order, thats gonna be tough. Especially if we put CLee in the 3 hole, as I think he should be.

Good to hear, killa...I'm headed out to Vegas for trip #8 in December...Gotta go by Monte Carlo Brewery to have my beer sampler platter!!!

Is that intuition, Jas, or something you've read somewhere? I know he is injury prone at his age, but I thought he had 1 more year left.

Oops...yes I did...the Moose...so.. Mussina, Wells, Contreras, Weaver, Lieber. There still would be some yelling by the NY folks, I'm sure...that won't cut it. Lieber coming off the surgery, WEaver having no consistency, Wells constant back issues, Contreras has established nothing in his 1st year.....they have 1 established frontline starter in Mussina

That, my friends, is the $64,000 question....the guy has issues, not too many people will argue that. We have enough complaints about the clubhouse atmosphere...

Yeah, not too many NY fans would be happy with a starting rotation of: Wells, Weaver, Lieber, Contreras....

So if we trade Maggs, who hits 3rd, Lee? Absolutely....CLee has shown enough patience at the plate over the last year and a half to hit 3rd. We need speed in front of him, or at least guys that can carry high OBP. That, my friends, is the big mystery in the 2004 Sox lineup right now.

I don't think alot of us know exactly where JRs payroll restraints come from. Is it a self-imposed limit that he and the other holders created? Is it just the amount that they want to designate for baseball, and use their other finances for real estate, etc? We all know that JR has the money to field a high $$$ product on the field, but doesn't do it....

Heres the thing...will Frank be "receptive" enough to take the change to 5th in the batting order. If he hits there, then I have no problems with him swinging for the HRs. But he CANNOT swing like that hitting 3rd in our lineup. Yes, at $6 mill, a guy hitting 40 HRs and hopefully 100 RBIs is a pretty good deal in todays game. IMO it all depends on whether or not a new manager will pencil him in at #5, and stick with it no matter how much whining and complaining our "franchise" does. P.S.- Um, rudeness usually isn't a good way to make new friends here, Jeff..

Help! by the Liverpool Lads....

#3. Amityville Horror- Don't really know why, maybe cuz I haven't seen it in years since I was a lil' boy. #2. Hellraiser- The original, just a damned disturbing movie to me, and there isn't much that bothers me on movies. #1. Halloween- The original, the best, the one. I love this movie, and have seem it far too many times to count. 1978, yeah, its old, but I'll be damned if it isnt still a scary movie to those that haven't seen it. "I shot him 6 times...SIX TIMES!!!!"

You and me both, winodj.....oh, to have a "phenom" immediately live up to expectations, and not pull a Ruffcorn.. Remember, this "Phenom" was injured off and on for quite a while out of the gate. Buehrle was more of a "Phenom" then Beckett Yeah, but Jas, Buehrle was more of an afterthought as a draftee, whereas Beckett was a 1st Round guy that most expected to be all that, and he delivered. Its been a while since we've had a Top Draft Pick come up to Chicago and deliver like that.

You got it Fanof14.....the HP-48G was teh standard required Calculator at Clemson University when i first started there...that was in 1995 now they switched to the TI-83, but most of the professors still swear by the HP...as do I.

You and me both, winodj.....oh, to have a "phenom" immediately live up to expectations, and not pull a Ruffcorn..

G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA vs.BOS 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 2.1 5 5 5 0 5 1 19.29 4.29 .417 vs.ANA 3 3 3 0 0 1 0 21.1 26 12 11 1 6 10 4.64 1.50 .306 vs.CWS 2 2 0 2 0 0 0 13.0 11 6 6 2 6 7 4.15 1.31 .229 vs.CLE 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 7.0 7 4 4 2 1 8 5.14 1.14 .259 vs.KC 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 15.0 11 3 2 0 3 15 1.20 0.93 .208 vs.MIL 2 2 1 1 0 0 0 12.0 11 5 5 2 2 7 3.75 1.08 .229 vs.MIN 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 7.0 7 5 5 0 3 3 6.43 1.43 .292 vs.NYY 2 2 1 1 0 0 0 14.2 16 8 8 1 5 11 4.91 1.43 .267 vs.SEA 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 9.0 7 1 1 0 1 6 1.00 0.89 .219 vs.TEX 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 8.0 7 4 4 1 3 6 4.50 1.25 .219 vs.TOR 2 2 2 0 0 1 0 17.0 17 4 4 2 0 9 2.12 1.00 .258 vs.ATL 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 5.0 5 5 5 1 5 0 9.00 2.00 .250 vs.HOU 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 7.0 4 2 2 0 4 2 2.57 1.14 .200 vs.MON 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 8.1 4 3 3 0 2 6 3.24 0.72 .138 vs.NYM 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 6.2 8 5 5 1 2 2 6.75 1.50 .308 vs.PIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 7.1 7 2 2 0 3 3 2.45 1.36 .259 vs.STL 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 9.0 7 1 1 0 2 8 1.00 1.00 .219 vs.SD 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 5.0 11 6 5 0 0 5 9.00 2.20 .458 vs.COL 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 7.2 5 1 1 1 1 2 1.17 0.78 .192 vs.FLA 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 6.0 6 2 2 1 3 5 3.00 1.50 .273 vs.ARI 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 14.0 14 4 4 1 3 6 2.57 1.21 .259 vs.TB 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 13.2 15 6 5 0 1 12 3.29 1.17 .278 Heres Ponsons numbers vs each team this year....looks to me like when he pitched against the good teams in MLB: Atlanta, NYY, Minny, Boston..he was average at best. We dont need another #3 pitcher, we got a couple already. We need a #1 that can eat innings, get the CGs if possible. Also, loking at his numbers for his career... Pitching Last 3 years Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 2001 BAL 23 23 5 10 0 3 1 138.1 161 83 76 21 37 84 4.94 1.43 .289 2002 BAL 28 28 7 9 0 3 0 176.0 172 84 80 26 63 120 4.09 1.34 .258 2003 BAL 21 21 14 6 0 4 0 148.0 147 65 62 10 43 100 3.77 1.28 .258 Yes, he has gotten better each year, but I just don't think he is the answer to our solution if we don't get Colon, just MO. 18 out of his 31 starts were "Quality"....I'm still weighing my thoughts on Ponson

Frank will be here, whether we the fans want him or not.....he has said that last years delve into Free Agency was "a bust" and that he doesnt really wanna go through it again. We will have a $6 million DH next year, like it or not. I am really starting to think that we will also have a $8 million DH forced into playing first in Konerko. Thats 50% of our payroll in 3 players who, while each have definate strengths they bring to the table, none are superstars that shuold be responsible for that much of a teams payroll.

I don't really have that high of an opinion on Ponson....when it was discovered that the Orioles were setting him up to pitch against other teams #3 and 4 starters, so that if and when a trade was made. they would receive mor than he is worth. Add on to that the fact that he absolutely was putrid in the postseason...we have enough guys that can choke when we need them the most...

Colon for free agency Not that I am surprised...we may see him back in a Sox uni, but I am not too heart-broken if he isnt. IMO KW did what he had to do, considering this regime's history.

What, you don't think that Chandler will lead the Bears to the promised land??

I don't see anyway this team can afford to pay Tom Gordon and his gimpy arm $5 mill a season with our current payroll status. I was happy to see him succeed like he did in our time of need, but no way can we give Gordon 5 mill.