Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 07:58 AM) Let's hope so, we shouldn't be giving him 325-375 AB's to get to that number or we're in trouble. Still not exactly clear at this point what's being argued. The only thing I am arguing is the bashing of Gordon Beckham and the love of Emilio Bonifacio. Their performance over the course of their careers is pretty similiar. If you hate Gordon Beckham to the point where seeing his name in a spring training line up pisses you off, you probably at the end of the season, aren't going to think much of Emilio Bonifacio.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 07:11 AM) I'm not trying to say Bonifacio is awesome. I AM trying to say he's better than Gordon Beckham, which is consistent with everything you just said as it is (Bonifacio has more WAR despite fewer games played), but especially so when you consider that just shy of HALF of Gordon Beckham's career fWAR came in a single season six years ago, whereas Bonifacio came in at roughly league average (2.1 fWAR) just last season. Beckham, last season, was actually BELOW replacement level (-0.2 fWAR). Surely you'd agree that when referencing a counting stat, recency is an important factor if you're trying to decide what's going to happen next season. Alex Rodriguez has 654 career HR while Jose Abreu has just 36, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks A Rod will hit more homers than Abreu in 2015. Yes, I understand that Bonifacio will face RHP at some point in 2015, just like any part-time player. But you know what? He faced RHP sometimes last year too, and he still managed that 2.1 fWAR. He managed the 2.1 fWAR, but that is pretty much an outlier. I hope he does it again, but chances are it will be less than 1.0.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 10:42 PM) Please read the below, and mentally replace 'Garcia' with 'Bonifacio' Except in the case of Bonifacio, Beckham may NOT even be able to outhit him, especially if each player is used in a platoon role. Beckham has a much more neutral platoon split, which evens him out in the unlikely and very unfortunate event that either player would be counted on to start consistently against the platoon split. But again: For their careers Becham has played about 40 more games and has a 5.3 WAR vs, Bonifacios 6.0 WAR. Since you know Gordon Beckham sucks, I guess this would be proof Bonifacio, despite beimg faster and playing more positions, sucks as well. Again, if Bonifacio is not goimg to play against RHP, he is hardly going to play. alexei played in almost every game and had 162 PA vs. LHP. Bonifacio is going to have to play against RHP occassionally.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 07:07 PM) Nope, wrong. I won't rehash my argument for the utility of WAR projections because I'm tired of re-typing it and you don't seem to respond well to anything that isn't completely black & white, but arguing that bench player WAR on an individual level can be a few decimals off due to PT does NOT invalidate projections because (a) bench players only add very small amounts to the projection in the first place, rarely (if ever) having a strong effect on the overall results, and (b) any WAR gained or lost by an individual player due to inaccurate PT numbers is subsequently gained or lost by a different player, thereby further marginalizing an already tiny effect. Dividing total innings to be played in a season is, essentially, a zero-sum calculation. So if Gordon Beckham's projected WAR is 0.2 too high because he's projected for 150 too many ABs, those 150 ABs are going to to another player instead who's very likley to put up something in the neighborhood of 0.1 - 0.3 WAR instead. In some extreme case, the Beckham PT disparity might be the difference between like 40 team WAR and , I don't know, 40.4? LMAO. The projected WAR is wrong because they have them playing too much but projected standings and strength of schedule using these imcorrect numbers are good tools. The funny thing is since WAR is a counting stat of the 4 projections fangraphs uses, the almost all have Bonifacio making 100 more plate appearances than Beckahm and Beckham still the same or better.

so you now agree that postimg standings based on projected WAR, and determining strength of Schedule based on projected WAR,(only weeks ago you thought it so important you started a thread) is a joke because now aparently projected WAR is now silly. Leury over Beckham? Another joke.

Even with their new arena some day even that is now delayed, DePaul is so irrelevant. You take this job, you will be running away in a few years. Unless they can get someone who could recruit the Public League better than anyone has in many years, who is going to want to play at DePaul?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 04:27 PM) Dick Allen. Are you reading these posts? If you're going to continue arguing this, please stop comparing both players' equally s***ty offensive projections/track records and address the differences on the basepaths and defensively, because that's literally the ENTIRE argument being made between the two players. But you are basically saying Bonifacio cannot play vs. RHP. And blow off all these projections that you used to think were very useful tools. Bonifacio is faster, he does play more positions. That doesn't mean he is valuable and Beckham needs to be waived. If Banifacio is so much more valuable, how are all these projections you seem to defend to no end whenever they are questioned, not coming to the same conclusion? Leury Garica is faster than either, and plays more positions than either. Maybe they should keep him.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) Ok, so take away the switch-hitting part and treat him like a righty. Bonifacio is a career 97 wRC+ against LHP, Beckham is a career 85 wRC+. And Bonifacio plays three more positions and is way faster. So you aren't ever going to play the guy vs, RHP? He is hardly going to play. Your fangraphs 4 projections project them pretty much the same, and Bonifacio makes double. Beckham is a bargain.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 03:19 PM) This. And, that was some pretty fancy cherry picking, DA, on the GB vs. EB comparison. EB has a 118ops+ for his career vs. LHP, which is how he should be used on the Sox. Killed it vs. LHP last season. If Robin uses him wisely, he'll almost never see RHP, which is good because he's terrible against them. So the switch hitting that Eminor pointed out means nothing. An why is it cherry picking when he said having him in the line up for decent stretches and the Sox won't miss a beat? Can they request only LH pitchers? Beckham was pretty good against LHP too last season. But seriously, telling someone they are cherry picking when they are using career stats with a veteran is pretty weak.

I think technically, Bonifacio will be the 4th OF. Shuck appears the favorite to win a spot, and he wasn't a bad hitter until last season. I am concerned about the comments from Angels announcers implying he isn't exactly stellar with the glove. If you aren't going to have a guy in that spot that isn't a really good OF, I would prefer a guy who can come off the bench and hit one over the fence.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) Is Fangraphs very high on Beckham? Don't get it confused, I'm not saying either of these guys will be great, good, or even average ML players. I'm simply stating that they are/will be better than Beckham, which isn't a high bar to pass. While playing everyday in the minors would be best for their own development, it wouldn't necessarily be in the best interest of the team and that conflicts with the "all in" approach we appear to be taking. It is in the best interest of the team. Sanchez wasn't exactly lights out last year. Saladino needs more AB. He hit well in AAA, but was brutal in AA before that and missed the last part of the season. There is nothing that says they would be better than Beckham at the major league level in 2015 other than Beckham haters say so.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) Come on DA, you're ignoring his entire argument, which is about everything OTHER than the bat. Beckham and Bonifacio are both similar shades of bad at the plate. But only one is a 70 runner, switch hitter, and can play nearly every position on the field competently. No, you don't want him starting for long periods of time, but that's your ideal bench guy. If you saw the post I was refering to, the bat comes to play. Bonifacio will have some incredible offensive streak at some point this season assuming health. But no matter how fast he is, if he isn't on base, it really doesn't help much. An out batting LH counts just as much as an out batting RH. They are both decent bench guys.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 02:20 PM) Then do it. They all have warts, but Sanchez and Saladino appear to have less. While Beckham will make the team, if he doesn't produce I wouldn't be surprised to see him let go mid-season in favor of Sanchez or Saladino. Fangraphs isn't very high on either: Tyler Saladino, SS Video: Saladino has been a little injury prone with a knee injury in 2013 and Tommy John surgery in August of this year, which was especially disappointing after a breakout offensive year in Triple-A. He’s okay defensively at shortstop but probably fits best as a utility guy long-term and he’s also just okay offensively, with fringy raw power that could allow him to hit double digit homers and solid plate discipline but not a ton of bat speed and a line drive bat path. Saladino should be back at some point later in 2015 and has big league value, but his upside is as a backup. Carlos Sanchez, SS Video: Sanchez almost didn’t qualify for this list after 104 PA in the big leagues at age 22; he’s almost a finished product as a limited upside utility infield type. He’s part of a cramped middle infield at the upper levels; he can play shortstop and second base and is an above average runner, but has little pop and the bat may only be avera

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 02:11 PM) Well, he at least has limited experience playing OF which is more than can be said about Beckham. Besides, he's better than Beckham defensively at 2B/SS/3B and almost definitely no worse with the bat. Ditto with Sanchez. That's really all that matters here. If that's the only thing out of my post that you could contest, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to this Beckham issue. I can actually blast a lot of what you wrote. But the Beckham haters don't see the warts on his perceived competition. Bottom line, Rick Hahn can, and that is why Gordon is going to be the back up infielder.

When this season is over, Gavin will have been paid $1,250,000 per start the last 3 years. I wonder if he tries again. I can't imagine a team giving him anywhere near $4 million to try.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) For good reason. If this truly is an "all in" season, I'd much rather have Sanchez or Saladino on the bench instead of Beckham. I know they'd personally benefit from playing in Charlotte everyday, especially Sanchez, but team needs come first and both of them are better bench options than Beckham. It's the same reason we need to have Rodon up here as soon as we can without giving up a year of control. We know what Beckham brings, and that's average to slightly above average defense at 2B, average defense at 3B, the ability to play SS in a pinch, and little to no consistent hitting ability. Sanchez and Saldino are better defenders than Beckham and offer more versatility (Sanchez is at worst above average at 2B, passable at SS, and probably can play 3B as well; Saladino is our third best defensive SS behind Alexei and Cleuluis Rondon and can play 2B and 3B in addition to corner OF). As far as batting goes, they can't possibly be any worse than Beckham, and odds are they're better even if their numbers won't blow you away. Beckham is looking like this year's Leury Garcia without the versatility to play the outfield (well, he plays The Outfield but not the position ). Sanchez and Saladino are better, but Beckham will stick around because of his contract and history with the organization. What is it about the 3 errors in 8 games that makes you think Saladino can play the OF?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 01:34 PM) D-Backs Then I hope he goes #1. Or #8.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) You're a weird dude it's like you read half of what people argue, form your own opinion, and then ignore the rest. You don't seem like a big picture thinker no offense. Not many teams have a replacement for 7 positions in the diamond with a career wRC+ of 80. Yes, with this lineup the Sox can easily carry his bat for a month if someone goes down. Doesn't mean he's Frank Thomas. So they can't carry Beckham's bat, but can carry Bonafacio's. I am the weird one.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 27, 2015 -> 11:41 AM) He will be able to be drafted in the 2015 draft. I even saw a writer say yesterday that he could go #1 again. Is Houston #1? If they are, I think I read somewhere, the player has to give the OK for the team that didn't sign them the year before to draft them again.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 01:24 PM) Who is he gonna platoon with? He has a wRC+ of 85 against LHP. Might as well just trot Conor out there and let him try and improve. Bonafacio's career wRC+ is 80, and you said the Sox won't miss a beat with him in the line up.

2015 Whipping Boys: Gordon Beckham John Danks

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) If Soto can't throw the ball I don't know how the keep him as the backup. The Sox have always valued receiving over offense in the backup catcher and so far in spring Soto looks completely out of sorts back there. Also, if anyone should be the odd man out it's Beckham. If the team is going "all in" this year Sanchez's glove is better than Beckham's and he can't possibly hit much worse. Beckham looked completely lost yesterday. His bat is so slow I don't see anyway he does anything more than 250/290/380 at the dish. I even think that ISO is optimistic. His power has evaporated he can't pull anything for power. Considering you went on and on about Bonafacio and how he could be in the line up for long stretches without missing a beat, it's kind of weird you think Beckham at best is 250/290/670 so he should be cut and Bonafacio for his career is .262/.319/.660. Not exactly much better. And if Beckham's spring so far can lead to to judge, Bonafacio is 1-18, and he looks a little lost at bat. It's March 16. They haven't been playing for 2 weeks. Way too early to judge.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 11:57 AM) If someone can show me where it is a non-guaranteed deal, I'd be happy to have been right earlier on and wrong now. Please do let me know if you find that! Even if it is non guaranteed, the longer you go in spring training, the more you have to pay. Beckham is on the team. He's been playing more than anyone to get used to the different positions.

The one thing that concerned me yesterday listening to the Angels announcers was they didn't think very much of Shuck's glove. They said the ball always seemed to find him, and his routes were a bit "unusual". They also said he gets in trouble when he hits the ball in the air, which makes sense, and plays better when he is in the line up every day. If they are correct, JB isn't going to be around very long.

Didn't Micah have a huge spring last year as well? IMO this "competition" was stacked in his favor. But give him credit for hitting. Now, keep it up and carry it through. If he could be Ray Durham someday, that would be really sweet.