Dick Allen

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:59 PM) No, my evidence would show that they are trying to recoup funds from last year by slashing this year's operating budget. It is a widely undertaken measure in the business world, DA. What was their bottom line last year? Forbes claims they made $10 million. What did you come up with?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:55 PM) It IS a factor. And he is not using the Sox fans as a pawn. Please explain how he is using them as a pawn. Regardless of what your argument all along has been, that certainly does not make it my argument all along. We have been raising many different points on this same topic for probably 6 years now and the crux hasn't changed. You demand the Club spend every penny they can possibly scrape up in any scenario, or else they are not entitled to mention attendance as a factor in making future acquisitions. I claim that is a ridiculous assertion. Again, I have never demanded they spend every penny. They have claimed numerous times they spend every dime that comes in. JR finally came clean when he was questioned about where they got the money for Dunn, Konerko and AJ when he said they save a little here, save a little there. I would imagine Forbes numbers are a lot more accurate than the claims White Sox employees make concerning finances, and Forbes calls them, despite Sox fans apparently not supporting the team, one of the most profitable franchises in baseball. I've only called them cheap in 2009 when they had all my non refundable playoff money, raised ticket prices, and then lowered payroll and cried poor. They eventually brought in Peavy and Rios. Other than that, I've never really had a problem with their payroll. In fact, I actually argued against the $4 million for 1 month waste of money for Manny Ramirez. I only have a problem with them crying poor if they are not, and claiming to spend every dime that comes in, when they don't. I don't know know why they feel its so important to tell everyone these things.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:52 PM) There certainly is. I'll give you a hint, despite the continued assertions that "I always do" this and that. I'll give you a hint: All you have to do is look at the payroll versus attendance and the performance of the team over the course of that last 7 years and you can see all the evidence you need. Payroll is down 24 percent from last season. Attendance is down 9%. I guess your evidence would show funds are available.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:44 PM) Dick, I see you are having trouble quoting the posts, so I will respond here. I certainly am not denying that is a point of the argument, but it certainly is not the whole argument. I would characterize the "whole" argument as being that simply because Kenny has said that the attendance is hurting his ability to make in-season acquisitions does not mean other money does not exist, or that an acquisition may be forthcoming, or that he is necessarily lying if said acquisitions were to be made. I certainly would argue that Soler and our financial position going forward this season are not necessarily linked, which does seem to be one of the arguments you are making. We have been having this very same argument far before either you or I even knew who Soler was. My argument all along tonight has been if they have money for Soler, they have money to add to this year's roster, and I don't like KW using Sox fans as a pawn when asked about finances. He can cry poor all he wants, a lot of teams do, but don't imply it has anything to do with attendance. He really tried not to, I'll give him that, but in the end, he said it was a factor.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:40 PM) DA and I posted the source for our argument. Its right there all written down. You can view it at any time if you wish. Great so no evidence at all.You havent supplied any throughout this entire thread. He doesn't need evidence. He's shack. He's lighting us up.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:35 PM) That has not been my argument. QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) I just don't understand how you could be a CPA and not see the different budgets that are in play here. I am sure each area has a budget and they try to stay within those budgets. Signing Soler would probably come out of a different budget than the one intended for making in-season acquisitions. I know our Organization gets creative with money, and will pull from one area to another and vice versa, but I am not sure what you would have them do. Signing Soler is probably based on payrolls in the future and not necessarily money they have right now from which to draw against. How could you possibly not get your mind around that as an accountant? First Base Coach Group: Members Posts: 21,291 Joined: May 7, 2003 Member No.: 385 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:35 PM) First of all we don't even know they made an offer on Soler. Secondly, I am sure the investors of the Club have money they can pull from when it is necessary. That does not mean it is considered generally available rather than utilizing traditional revenue sources such as gate revenues. You guys are both being incredible. This is not a publicly traded corporation, it's a freaking privately owned baseball franchise.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:27 PM) I stopped arguing his original post when I originally responded to it. This whole argument has been if they had money for Soler they have money for an upgrade or 2. You argued that isn't the case. Fine. When they acquire someone your apology will be accepted as long as its sincere.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:23 PM) Throughout the thread you've stated several times, in perhaps every way possible, that the White Sox have money to spend right now. Are you honestly trying to amend that now to be a conditional statement? That was my orignal post at 8:09

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:20 PM) That's honestly the best you can do? Because I can keep lighting you both up all night long... Yeah, you're really lighting me up. Grow up.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:19 PM) That the White Sox have money to spend right now. Learn how to read. Here's my original post you started arguing. Isn't it a little strange KW rmentioned the attendance perhaps hurting his ability to add to the current roster only days after Peter Gammons reported the Sox offered Soler $25-30 million? Either Gammons is lying or KW is lying about being strapped for cash. I really have no idea how it got you so riled up, but its hard to argue it isn't accurate.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:18 PM) No, it's what I do when I realize the audience I am debating with is incapable of understanding the argument I am making. Because there is no audience on the planet capable of understanding your argument.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:16 PM) You're making an affirmative statement which requires an assumption to be made if it is to be considered valid. I'm pointing out that there is no information available to us today which allows us to make that assumption, and thus, your affirmative statement is invalid. Do you understand the distinction? What affirmative statement. I mentioned Gammons report. I said one of them is lying. I didn't say which one. I did say if Gammons was accurate, KW's crying poor is, once again, BS like it was before Peavy, Rios, Jackson and Ramirez, and for that matter Dunn, Konerko and AJP. The word IF is big there.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:12 PM) Every watched Pulp Fiction? I guess not. Im typing in perfect English. If you cant read thats not my fault. This is what he does when he is out of bullets. I think he's starting to realize his ridiculousness.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:12 PM) I don't need evidence, Dick. All I stated was that one cannot use our rumored interest in Soler as evidence that we have money to spend on player acquisitions for this year. That does not require evidence. As I said either Gammons or KW was lying. Maybe you have evidence the Sox didn't make Soler the offer Gammons claimed. If the Sox had money for Soler, they have money to pick someone up. They only have to pay them for half a season. Soler would require some sort of bonus and salary this season, so your future payroll argument is moot.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:10 PM) Well I am certainly glad you are enjoying this. However, the fact that you are laughing certainly is not anything to suggest I am wrong. Not in itself. But you are wrong. And you're argument is gettin even more ridiculous.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:07 PM) What is your evidence? What is yours? For someone who always demands evidence, you certainly never back up your goofiness with evidence.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:03 PM) At no time have I made that statement. You said you know their general finanical position, and are arguing that even if they offered Soler $25-30 million they don't have money available to acquire players, because the point I was making was if they have money for Soler, they have money to upgrade. You are saying no. That money isn't for in season acquisitions. Every post you're making on this is making me laugh even more.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:01 PM) And this proves my point that some fans need to be treated as children, because they are incapable of understanding the complexities of real life. Yeah, I don't understand life. I wish I could learn from you.

The position I do take is that I do not need to audit the team's financials to understand their general financial position. How do you do that? Every team is unique. Its not the NFL. And you know for a fact the White Sox don't have money to acquire a significant player or 2 this season. You're so smart.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) It's a very good analogy. If it is, you're saying JR has money to spend, but not to be used to help the team win this year. Its really a dumb argument. Do you realize JR wants to win as much as anyone, and he knows his time will be up fairly soon?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) It's a very good analogy. If it is, you're saying JR has money to spend, but not to be used to help the team win this year. Its really a dumb argument.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:52 PM) You opened the nitpicking pandora's box, not me, my friend. No, you simply can't take a little blurb that says we were in on Soler to mean we have a secret cache of funds that Kenny is instead using to buy furniture for his home with instead of improving the club. We have a history as good as any team in baseball of adding players at the deadline for the sake of improving the club, even when it's probably against fairly long odds that we will win the division. If you have an issue with that, as many do, it should be that we are squandering available funds trying to improve the club, not hoarding potential funds for other reasons. Yet you take KW saying the Sox have no funds to spend as gospel. LMAO. Just so you know he said the same thing right before he traded for Peavy, and claimed Rios, and claimed Manny and traded for Jackson. But that's because JR found some money. They can't use money they were going to pay Soler, that's for the future. Have another drink. Actually, while KW seems to make a lot of in season trades, not many of them have helped the team win that particular season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:45 PM) Because my assumptions are based on all the things that are actually happening....actual payroll numbers, attendance figures, our Club's behavior compared to those similarly-situated, while yours are based entirely on your own conspiracy theories which belie almost everything that is actually occurring in reality. Their general behavior pretty much matches what they say and what the publicly available numbers say. If you're going to propose the conspiracies, it's up to you to provide a little more evidence than "Forbes said they made $14 million last year and they claim they have no money! Liars!" What are the payroll numbers? What is the Sox revenue? What are they projecting for the rest of the season? There are no conspiracy theories. I'm just sick of Sox fans taking the blame for not going to games when the Sox do fine financially. The Sox are in he top half in revenue year after year. Forbes calls them one of the most profitable teams in all of baseball the last decade. They even claim they made $10 million during last season's debacle. Yet you seem to know more because you believe KW when he tells you he can't spend a dollar when he only has fifty cents. Well good. I don't care if he spends a dollar. His in season help has been nothing but busts. But if you really believe the Sox won't use any that money they were earmarking for Soler if the right player becomes available and they have a legit shot to win, you're even more crazy than anyone thinks.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:37 PM) Do either of you two have children? If your kids ask you for a new XBox do you feel obliged to tell them that you have the money because you could possibly take a loan out or put it on your credit card or pay for it with cash intended to fix the garbage disposal? Just because it is possible that you could scrape up the money in a pinch does not mean you are lying to them when you say "I don't have the money for a new XBox right now." Wow. Worst post ever.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:35 PM) First of all we don't even know they made an offer on Soler. Secondly, I am sure the investors of the Club have money they can pull from when it is necessary. That does not mean it is considered generally available rather than utilizing traditional revenue sources such as gate revenues. You guys are both being incredible. This is not a publicly traded corporation, it's a freaking privately owned baseball franchise. Why is it you always argue things like its a privately owned company we know nothing, yet you claim to know everything? If we have no idea what we are talking about, neither do you.