Dick Allen

While I don't know anything about players deferring money for Damon, don't know if anyone would be up for it, or if its even allowed, and imagine it may be a can of worms that both sides might want to avoid for several reasons, because in essence, its a re-negotiation, and what will stop the player who sacrificed if he has a good year and the payroll is lower the next year for not asking for a raise, if the big problem was it was tough to contact a player, its not like KW would have to get any of the players on the first try in order for it to happen. These negotiations dragged on forever. I would imagine KW would call the agent.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 07:37 PM) I doubt that he makes any moves until well after the season starts. You have to stop doing this to yourself... Really? Maybe you should think about it for a second. $15.75 million for 2010. He wouldn't take a cut in an extension. At minimum and a bargain would have been 3 years $50 million, so if they were serious they had to be ready for at least that. The $60 million they owe Rios would have come in handy.

So how much does Halladay make? And at a minimum, how much would it have cost to extend him even if he gave you an unbelievable bargain? Next time KW tells you he doesn't have any money, you know what he's full of, and if it was ultimately the size of the extension that caused the trade not to go through, how does that Rios waiver claim look now?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 02:41 PM) Wouldn't Nix have hit 40 home runs if he had 500 at bats? That's all fine and dandy but doesn't mean too much. If it all was against LHP, maybe.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 06:26 AM) If he gives us similar power numbers, and a little bit better of an average this year, I will consider him a good signing. Im not expecting 1990s Braves Andruw Jones. Im expecting guy running out of options on the bench. I have no problem with that. I just think some are not being realistic. There's a reason Boras had him sign for $500k relatively quickly. There's not much interest. He now weighs 221. Will he return to CF? Considering the Sox have used Everett and a 300 year old Griffey in CF, I would say its likely. Its not a bad signing for what it is. For anyone to expect he can turn into a $8 million or more ballplayer is setting the bar a little too high IMO. Frankly, I think the Sox would take what he did last year for what they are paying him.

Is there anyone here who expects Andruw Jones to produce at levels similar to his heyday in Atlanta that would expect the same thing had the Cubs or Twins signed him? You would be laughing at other message boards suggesting what you are suggesting.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 05:49 PM) Well he was out of shape and/or had knee problems those 3 years, reports are he looks like he did his rookie year (not just from people in the white sox org so its not smoke and mirrors) and he said his knee was better at the beginning of last season so it looks like the problems hes had the previous 3 years where he was no good are done for. Unless he was juicing the whole time he was in ATL, guys that good just dont forget how to hit when theyre healthy and are hungry.....i dont know if my previous post made any sense but to me it does and i think if hes in shape the next convo we'll be having is will Ozzie have the guts to move PK to the 6 hole because Andruw is out performing him and will be moved to the 4 hole. I'm glad he's in shape, but guys have and can lose their baseball hitting ability quickly. I think you have to wait for Jones to outperform Konerko before you should worry about how Ozzie handles it. It really is a longshot it will come to that. If guys are hurt for 3 years straight, there's a good chance they won't make it through season 4 without getting hurt. Jones is going to be eating different food and exercise and eat on a different schedule than he did during the offseason. I believe we are creatures of habit, and if he falls back into the habits he had before he got in shape, he probably will require a bigger uniform rather quickly. I'm sure Allen Thomas probably hangs out with him.

So KW was willing to play Boras' games for a while, come up with some money, now he won't admit Damon would have helped the White Sox?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 04:26 PM) Very funny. However, we are talking about a former perrenial All Star, and genuine super star, who got injured, became overweight and out of shape. His performance then fell off dramatically, right at a time in his career when he should have been in his prime. That suggests the possibility that his getting healthy and in shape could make a significant difference. Here is a link to his injury history: http://www.baseballinjurytool.com/injury-tool.php I understand that he has been linked to PEDS, however he was always a very good player until the last few years. Moreover, steroids don't help a hitter to make contact, nor to win Gold Gloves. Perhaps they made him stronger, and maybe he wouldn't have hit 51 homers in 2005 without them, but this guy was an elite player. He has really only struggled for the first time in his career, during the last 3 seasons, the time that he was hurt, and out of shape. Even then his numbers from last year project to 36 doubles, 34 homers and 86 RBI's. Wouldn't you take that at DH? The previous season, his first with the Dodgers he was injured and missed more than half the season. The year before that, his last year in Atlanta, he did have his first really bad batting average year, but even then he was productive, with 94 RBI's. I just think that while your point is well taken, in that they don't award wins or championships for being healthy and in shape, the improved physical condition can definitely enable a gifted athlete to perform up to his potential, while being injured and out of shape is a tremendous handicap. I'm optimistic, and am looking forward to seeing what he can do, especially with his apparent improved attitude. And remember that he's playing for a contract. Wasn't he playing for a contract his last year in Atlanta? Wasn't he playing for a contract last season? How many guys his age, and there has always been debate whether his listed age is accurate , come back to his previous levels after 3 bad years? I'll have fun watching him. Not many guys chemically enhanced or not have ever hit 50 homers in a season. I just think his ship has sailed as an every day player.

If Andruw Jones does have a nice comeback year, does that mean Greg Walker is finer than Rudy Jaramillo, especially considering Rudy's current employer?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 03:22 PM) It appears that he meant Dye in lieu of Damon... yeah, it looks like he will save his cash for a LH hitter, unless someone gets hurt early.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 02:29 PM) Right. Like I said earlier, the "decline" is misleading. It's like saying Pujols was on the decline from 2003 to 2005 because his OBP went from 1.106 to 1.072 to 1.039. Technically, that's a decline. But, obviously, it's really not. Wouldn't a lot of people here like to have Curtis Granderson? Well, he's also been on an OPS "decline" the last 3 seasons (and actually, it's been a much more serious decline than what Rios has had) but I wouldn't consider him to be a player that's getting worse. I'd be glad to have him. Melky Cabrera had a similar 3-year downward trend, but that doesn't mean bigger picture issues. For somebody that just turned 29 three days ago, I consider 2009 to be anomalous, and the 3 years before that are not even a problem for me because they were still good years. What about what scouts say about his decline? I just received my BP yesterday. Here's their little write up on Rios: As surprising as the Jake Peavy trade was, Kenny Williams' claiming Rios in August wins the award for the most shocking transaction of 2009. With Williams hoping the talented outfielder simply needed a change of scenery to get things going again, Rios responded by not even getting his batting average above the Mendoza line, and the club is stuck with him for six more years at a cost of more than $80 million. (I believe they are off $20 million but it may be an option) Rios is young enought to figure things out again, but he most galling aspect of his performance might not be the stat line; it's the gaggle of scouts who see a player who just doesn't give a damn. I don't know if that really is true or not. Not the scouts feelings, I know that is true, but whether he really does give a damn. One other thing I heard on MLB Network about Rios with the White Sox in 2009, in 150+ plate appearances, he only hit 12 balls hard in play. Pecota has him at 34 2B 4 3B 20 homers .274 AVG. 339 OBP

QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 12:48 PM) Freddie Bynum has been released. He's heading to Japan to play. That move sent shockwaves through the entire league.

If JD is offended teams only want to pay him $3 million to play baseball for 6 months, I'm sure he'll enjoy retirement. Funny how a lot of these guys who "retire" wind up back in someone's camp the next year on a minor league deal with a contract that will pay them a fraction of what they would have been paid had they not sat out. Someone needs to slap JD upside the head and tell him he's 36 years old, time is running out, they pay you a ton of money to play a game, get what you can and do what you love. He'll regret it if he doesn't.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 12:42 PM) It's ironic, because the articles last season around this time were all about Fields' improvement, showing up in shape, etc. Exactly. He was a different player. He was going to outproduce Crede in his sleep. I could see some optimism for Jones if it was a one year spiral, or even 2 with an injury. But its 3 years. He'll be fun to watch, and if they pick his spots, he may still provide a little lift. Ron Washington was criicized last year for overexposing him. The Andruw Jones of 4 or 5 years ago is gone. I don't think he's coming back unless he gets himself some Flintstone vitamins.

I would be shocked if Andruw Jones can provide anything offensively Josh Fields can't except a few fewer strikeouts. The optimism for him is amazing. The guy has barely hit .200 the last 3 seasons combined.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 08:00 AM) The difference is much bigger for this year when you compare the 8 million dollars in 2010 to the 4.5 million that they Sox would have paid this year. I don't even think the Sox would have paid him that much this year. I think the total present day value was supposedly $4.5 million. The Tigers saved Boras yet again. Mr. Pizza Pizza can't be very popular with his fellow owners.

The Bulls are winning games they should win now, something they weren't doing before. The last 4 wins have been against teams a combined 75 games below .500. They have 3 more home games than road games left on their schedule, so the playoffs should be a relative lock. The new guys seem to fit in pretty well, but let's face it, they played Minnesota, 30 games under .500 and Philadelphia, 13 below at home. They probably look a little better than they really are. It will all come down to July 1. I just hope the Knicks don't win the lottery. I think its the only way Lebron goes there and probably takes someone with him.

This Andruw Jones is really a stand up guy: "They wanted me to come and that's why I signed here right away," Jones said of the White Sox. "You can see around the league, a lot of guys that had great years, they don't have a job still. For them to come and tell me, 'Hey, get in shape and you'll get a chance to play every day,' that motivated me more to go out and work hard and get my body right so I can play every day." All that money the Dodgers paid him didn't motivate him to get his body right and work hard. I guess at least he is in shape now. We'll see if that means anything. Odds are he's one of the great spring stories that fizzles out rather quickly when the games become real.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 12:10 AM) For some reason I used to like checking the weather outside of the dome last season and so many times it was s***ty while inside of course it was perfect. I want to see how they do with rain delays and wet fields and wind and cold and soaring humidity, all of the elements that other AL central teams deal with consistently at home. And while the turf is notoriously rough on knees and backs, I wouldn't rule out more injuries as a result of the changing weather, in particular, the cold to start and end the season. On average, Minneapolis is drier during the summer months than most midwest cities. Its not like baseball outdoors is something new in Minneapolis. It also seems a lot of people think the Twins never win a game on the road. They had the best road record in the AL Central last year. In fact, their road record has been better than the White Sox road record in 3 of the past 4 years, with 2008 being the exception and the difference was game 163. They were 1/2 game worse on the road. Most teams win more at home, and its not necessarily 100% the park. There are tons of other factors. In fact, I read an article a few years ago when they were going to start testing for greenies, that players being off them, and its no secret a very high percentage of players used them, would lead to increases in home team wins due to travel, late nights, etc.

Before we start saying guys are done if they go 0 for 10 during spring training or give up 8 runs in an inning, or put them on the All Star team because they are 9 out of their last 14 or pitch a couple of scoreless innings with 5 ks lets all keep in mind these spring training facts from the Tribune: In 2005, White Sox pitchers a 5.59 spring ERA before proceeding to win the World Series. Brian Anderson batted .309 the next spring to win the starting center field job, only to lose it by midseason. And infielder Wilson Betemit led the Sox last spring with six home runs and 18 RBIs, only to be designated for assignment two months later.

Here's something interesting from the Tribune: Extra innings: The Sox reported their highest advanced ticket sales since 2006 -- the season after their World Series title

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 20, 2010 -> 05:34 PM) You know what? I'd go to JD and say "Look. I'll give you $3M to DH, since you can't play the field. Take it or leave it." Then, let him and Jones it out, and if they both suck, cut Jones, if they both hit, trade one midseason for prospects. If Jones hits and JD doesn't, DFA JD and trade for Crawford, and if JD hits and Jones doesn't...don't do anything. We know how competition for roster If he would accept the fact he's a DH, he'd probably be a good one. If he still fights it and thinks he should play in the field, he'll struggle. DHing isn't for everyone.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 20, 2010 -> 05:29 PM) Officially put me in the concerned category, as this team will have to overachieve to win the AL Central. I don't think they'll have to overachieve A LOT, so I'm not indifferent or hopeless or anything because the overachievement necessary for this team to make the playoffs is reasonable. But I think this team has at bare minimum a 3/4 chance of finishing in the bottom 3 in the AL in runs, and it's just really hard to win that way in general, but especially in the AL and double especially playing in a bandbox. To win it all, the Sox are going to have to overachieve. PECOTA has them 80-82, CHONE 81-81, but just about every team that wins has to have more than a couple guys step up. All is not lost. They don't play in the AL East.

Although it didn't turn out as I had hoped, I'm glad this debacle is OVA.