Dick Allen

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 24, 2010 -> 09:40 PM) I thought I was pretty clear in what I said. Most of what I get (caller, emails, texts) is that people wanted Thome gone by midseason last year. Actually they wanted him gone midseason the year before. Now it seems to have completely changed. Actually, the Sox are really only in this position because Thome doesn't have a job yet. And because he said publicly that he would welcome a return, which then piqued everyone's interest and it became a topic. And because it became in issue, they've had to address it. I thought it was fairly obvious they decided to part ways with him this winter. There isn't one player on the Sox who fans haven't wanted gone at some point. Even Beckham people were down on after his slow start. I'm sure the White Sox have known Thome's first choice is them from before they traded him. Its not a new revelation. They need a bat. This Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel rotating DH thing is not going to work, just like Wise in CF didn't work. Just like Swisher leading off didn't work. Just like Darrin Erstad didn't work or Mike MacDougal or Andy Gonzalez.................................................They have to do something to correct it before it costs them wins. If its bringing back Thome fine. If its someone else fine. I agree Thome's popularity has increased tenfold, just on this board alone the past couple of days, but if the Sox had adequately filled his position, his potential signing with Minnesota would have been met with a collective yawn.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 23, 2010 -> 11:24 PM) Am I the only one that's bothered that this entire board is obsessed with adding a 40-year old DH? I mean I'd like Thome back as well. But you would think we were talking about a combination of Barry Bonds, Roberto Alomar and Ken Griffey Jr. I don't think anyone is pinning the White Sox World Series chances on bringing back Thome, in fact, I've always been one of his biggest fans and there are a couple of guys I would prefer, but it does appear the current scheme is pretty flawed. This guy costs you no players and apparently little money (relatively speaking, as $1 million for 6 months of work would be significant money to me.) If the current plan does indeed fail for whatever reason, and there are several to choose from, the Sox will have to find an alternative. That could cost them more cash or talent for similar production. The Thome figure, if accurate, is peanuts. This is money they paid Bartolo Colon last year. A third of what they paid Mike MacDougal. What they paid JD to go away. Maybe they think he can't hit anymore and want to be classy and not come out and say it. That would be one thing. Maybe they are in on someone else they think is a better fit than Thome, that's another OK thing, but if they think he can still contribute and can fit him in financially and the only excuse not to sign him is because Jones and Kotsay are on the roster , that is ridiculous.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 23, 2010 -> 05:27 PM) Ozzie was 13-for-30 that year in SB, lol. The Sox had 140 SB to 90 CS, a 61% success rate with a .320 team OBP. If it didn't work then it's not working now. The HR leaders BTW were: Fisk, 18 Kittle, 16 Sosa, 15 Calderon, 14 Pasqua, 13 They did win 94 games. It really was a fun year. They won more than a couple of games on WP. Got no hit and won by 4. One ironic thing about that year as the Sox were trying to make a run at Oakland who was stacked and juiced, were the deadline deals. Oakland picked up Willie McGee and Harold Baines. The Sox added Jerry Hairston, who I think did not play, they just put him on the roster it might have been Sept. 1, as a favor for his pension, and Minnie Minoso who was going to bat as a gimmick. He was 60 or 70, but the commissioner wouldn't let Minnie play. I think it was Ueberoth. One player was very vocal in his disgust about the disparity between the teams late season pick ups in the race for the division crown. His name was Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 23, 2010 -> 05:16 PM) The funny thing is that we're trying to create at-bats for Kotsay, who will surely be injured when he's not putting up a .270 average with 10 homers over the course of a full season. I love how KW is putting Ozzie on the hot seat. Kotsay hasn't had an OPS higher than .746 since 2004. Jones signed for 50% less guaranteed than Brian Anderson, even with Boras repping him. I think Wise working out as the leadoff man last year had a better chance of working out than this idea does. (If they are being straight) Supposedly Damon said he will sign this week. Maybe just maybe the Sox are still holding out hope and Thome is the second option. Probably not, but its nice to dream.

QUOTE (CryptviLL @ Jan 23, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) Thome is not the naswer! Damon is! I can't wait to see what Ozzie has instore for this season by the looks of it! I personally hope he lives by his word and does crazy stuff. This is coming from a guy who hasn't liked Ozzie since 2006! haha I think he wants to play like the 1990 White Sox. I think their leading HR hitter had 14. If they got on base, they would go. I remember one game they had 5 guys in a row caught stealing. It didn't stop them from running. It was a fun year, but I don't know it that style will work today.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 23, 2010 -> 04:47 PM) on one of the local radio shows Scott Merkin was on, said somebody asked about Damon in the townhall meeting thing today and it was shot down. Yes. KW responded with the question, "Who is his agent." I would have told him the same guy who reps Andruw Jones. I think Damon is the perfect guy. I think he would do wonders as far as the way Ozzie wants to play and he can hit some homers too. It appears it won't happen. Thome at $1 million seems silly to turn down. If there is a silver lining, its that the White Sox usually work real hard correcting their wrongs the previous year. In 2007 when they went to all those minor league FA to fill out the bullpen, they wound up spending some good money on Linebrink and Dotel. Last year when DWise lead off, they wound up getting Pierre. If the current arrangement doesn't work out, they will wind up getting a big hitter to fill the role in 2011. Its just going to cost them more than it does now. I wish someone would ask Ozzie and KW if they really think all 3 of Quentin, Kotsay and Jones can stay healthy the entire year. Even if they all come up aces in performance, all of them staying healthy is a pipedream.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 23, 2010 -> 09:44 AM) I think B& B yesterday mentioned it's 328 Very few HR are hit right down the line. The big measurements are the gaps.

Supposedly he's willing to sign for $1 million. That's not even Toby Hall money. If you aren't going to bring in Damon, this is a no brainer.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 10:00 PM) I got KW mad at Soxfest today! I asked about the failure of Sox draft picks and if there has been a shift in draft philosophy. He was quite terse. I will give KW credit, he doesn't give the standard lines when he gets criticized, he come firing back. I almost think its to discourage anyone else from firing on him like pre-2005. I used to go to Soxfest just for those sessions and of course acquiring all the Liu Rodriquez baseball cards I could get my hands on. It seemed like as soon as someone started firing away it snowballed and a lot more people had the nerve to fire away as well. Usually the Friday's were all softball lovefests no matter what the state of the team.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:54 PM) I have a feeling if Thome signs elsewhere the Sox will be in the division race and deal for a bat giving up good prospects. I agree that another bat seems to be a pretty obvious need right now. Then again, if Bobby Jenks pitches like he used to pitch and Linebrink comes back strong and Thornton stays were he's at, and Putz gets back to what he was in 2006-7 and Pena pitches like Cliff Politte in 2005, they won't have to score many runs, but as we all know chances are that doesn't happen. There are always some surprises and some dissappointments every season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:49 PM) Dick, you make some very good points at times. I generally like you as a poster. But as J4L stated, you beat s*** into the ground so much it makes people crazy. We read you the first 157 times you typed that. Thanks for the critique. I'm just curious why the responsibility has changed. I'm hoping its all BS because they really need another hitter.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:34 PM) Caption this photo! I had that same look the morning after I had 17 martinis in Lake Tahoe.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:38 PM) You need to seriously get off that kick. The Sox were damn near 30 games over .500 through the first half of 2006. There were no obvious/realistic additions to be made. So what if KW asked for some player input? Do you really believe that Kenny has ever not made a deal based on a player's opinion? Give it a rest. He also asked them in 2007. JD got some input too. I guess they thought Andy Gonzalez was enough. Wasn't 2006 the year Soriano was rumored to be coming to the White Sox?

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:29 PM) Thome coming back would a be a huge PR boost if it happens. I'd bench him versus lefties and tough righties, if I was Ozzie, though. I wonder if the Sox would have this supposed change of heart if it were any other team but the Twins rumored to be close to signing him. That's 18 games a year and the only team you can look at right now in the division and say they could be better than the Sox. If Thome helped them win and Jones and Kotsay don't play all that well, it would be something not quite as bad as the White Flag Trade, but pretty close, especially if we are talking a contract for peanuts.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:22 PM) well it depends, if KW and JR went to Ozzie and said you could have player X or Y and Ozzie opted for certain types of players than it is Ozzie's choice. Not sure if they're giving him that much say so, but I would have to believe if this is the roster going into the season Ozzie had some say in it. But Ozzie is the 3rd man on the totem pole. Ultimately its KW's responsibilty with JR's OK to mold the roster, or why even bother paying him? Let him hang out at Market. If they decide they want to give Ozzie the responsibilty of making the roster, then KW and/or JR should utimately be responsible for that decision. Bobby Cox has had tremendous success as a manager, but was pretty much a bust as a GM. It used to be up to Konerko and Thome if they wanted to add to the roster. Ozzie had no idea KW even claimed Rios on waivers. Its very curious, but I think ultimately they will get another player. They have already come out and said they have the funds for another player. Usually we hear the exact opposite. Whether its Thome or someone else who can play the field, someone is coming in.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 09:15 PM) That new Cowley piece really is something. It's almost like they openly want 2010 to be all on Guillen. It's his baby To wreck or succeed with It does seem that way, but it would be silly to blame the manager if the season wasn't a success because the personnel wasn't up to snuff.

QUOTE (PeavyTime @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 06:27 PM) The White Sox won the world series because of incredible pitching which included a ridiculous 2.55 ERA in the postseason. They Sox then hit 236 homers in '06. 36 more than when they won it all. They must have won it all again right? They didn't? What was different? Oh yeah, their pitching SUCKED! Pitching and home runs. They hit a few big bombs. Iguchi, Konerko, Pods, Dye, Blum. I agree if the pitching sucks it doesn't matter, but the Sox starters had the second best ERA in the AL last year and they weren't .500. Is it a coincidence the Sox 2 worst seasons under KW are the 2 they hit the least homers? Its all find and dandy having Kotsay and Jones playing every day thinking they will turn back the clock and be productive and stay healthy. Its just not realistic. That combo reminds me of the Darrin Erstad debacle. Sometimes guys are done. Its nice that they are re-thinking Thome. I would prefer Damon even though he provides a little less power because he would be used differently and can still run. But Thome I would be happy with. You can't count on the other 2 to be healthy.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 08:00 PM) Kenny said their DH by committee is something the Angels have been doing the last couple of years. You would think entering his 10th season on the job, KW would want the Angels to want to be like the White Sox not the other way around.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 21, 2010 -> 09:09 PM) Seriously DA, you have stepped all over yourself trying to hold up your argument. If the White Sox did things your way, they would stuck with a bunch of s***brick longterm contracts that would drive them into 4th and 5th place every few years. This argument will never be won by either side. I suggest you cancel your season tickets so we don't have to hear you cry at EVERY SINGLE MENTION OF MONEY. This will be my 21st season with season tickets. I haven't cried about the White Sox being cheap except for the beginning of last year. Funny how the season ticketbase is a little smaller than last year, the ticket prices the same and the attendance took another 200k dip for the 3rd consecutive year, but the payroll is higher now and according to JR there is still money to spend. If that and the Peavy and Rios additions, don't make it appear they sat on cash during the beginning of last year I guess no one will win this argument. If you go back over the time I have owned tickets, I have complained less about White Sox spending a lot less than the normal fan. Once again, I have never suggested the White Sox spend all their money. I have never suggested they sign guys to the contracts you suggest. I was against them trading for Vazquez. In fact, I was dumbfounded by the Rios pick up. Last offseason, there were tons of bargains for one and two year contracts. The Sox needed help. They decided Wise, Lillibridge et al. were the answer. Just once I'd like you to give me an example of what you claim I post using one of my posts. Just once. Fourth or fifth place every few years seems to be what the White Sox do now. Anyway, you say I'm tripping over myself. Just show me one example of me posting the White Sox need to sign all kinds of guys to huge longterm contracts and you will win the argument and I will never post here again. I don't know how you can make something up about what I supposedly post and say I'm tripping over myself. Look in the mirror.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Jan 21, 2010 -> 07:31 PM) Teams are turning away from a traditional DH? Which teams would those be exactly? Yankees - Matsui - 116 starts at DH Boston - Ortiz - 138 starts at DH Rays - Burrell - 112 starts at DH Jays - Lind - 92 starts at DH Orioles - Scott - 89 starts at DH Twins - Kubel - 80 games at DH Tigers - Thames - 50 games at DH Sox - Thome - 98 games at DH Indians - Hafner - 88 games at DH Royals - Jacobs - 102 games at DH Angels - Vlad - 93 games at DH Rangers - Jones 53/Blalock 49 Mariners - Griffey - 91 A's - Cust - 96 Obviously injuries and other circumstances skewed some of these numbers. Hafner & Matsui injuries, Thome being traded to the NL, etc. Even taking the 53 games of Jones and the 50 of Thames it still averages to nearly 93 games at the DH position. I'm sure Ozzie is just saying this because he wants a more slappy/punchy team. That or they can't sign anyone to fill the void at DH that isn't 38+ years old. I don't mind the Sox rotating the DH as long as they do it mostly with frontline starter-quality players. At this stage I don't think you could call either Jones or Kotsay that. To play every game in the AL with basically a reserve in the line-up is playing a man short. That is going to tax your pitching staff. They are going to think they have to throw a gem everytime they take the mound. Besides, the Sox acquiring another guy would make Cowley wrong.................again. That would be sweet.

I don't understand why now its what Ozzie wants Ozzie gets. Before near the deadline, it was what Konerko and Thome want, and they wanted nothing, so nothing it was. Ozzie was one of the last people to know the Sox picked up Rios. Considering he's owed more than any player on the team, that seems odd, especially now if they aren't bluffing about not adding anyone else. I think its a bluff, of course I thought DWise playing CF last year was a bluff as well.

What's going to happen when some of these guys go on the DL?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 21, 2010 -> 09:55 AM) I've written this before, and I am going to write it again, as I really think it's the best analogy one can make regarding this situation: The White Sox have credit cards and use their income to pay those credit cards off, in full for the most part, from month to month. The White Sox say they have little or no more money, but could make an acquisition (and put that player on their "credit card") if an impact player was out there for the right price and he was the right fit for the Club. What DA is asking them to do is max out their credit cards every month/season. Spend EVERY AVAILABLE dollar. It's just ridiculous. Can you find a quote where I say what you said I said? I never have. In fact, I'm the guy stating SS2k5's claim that the White Sox are a "zero sum" team,(his term) that every dollar that comes in goes out is a falsehood. I don't begrudge the White Sox for making a profit. I just hate all the talk that they don't ever have money to spend, when every indication, no matter what SS2k5 wants to ignore, says they have plenty to spend if they choose. Face it, his "proof" is Forbes, which calls the White Sox one of the most profitable teams in baseball and has their pre-tax profit at over $80 million from 2005-8 and a poster who says his parents know an investor and he says they make no money they spend it on midseason acquitions and ballpark improvements. Please check the White Sox lease. They don't pay for renovations, so you would have to question the source. I have a source. Mine has always told me the Sox make a decent amount of money. I never complained until they jacked up my bill and trotted out DWise as the leadoff man in 2009. Mine even told me about blueprints JR was sitting on in 2005 for bars in the parking lot. I did post that on here 4 years ago. As someone who spends about $7500 a year on tickets, I was extremely pissed off last year when they cut payroll more than every team except SD and raised ticket prices. Then I had to hear the "we have to let our young players know they will get a shot here" crap. Has that gone by the boards? Its pretty apparent if you are trying to win DWise as your leadoff man playing CF wasn't going to work. Brent Lillibridge who hit .220 in AAA in 2008 wasn't going to work in the AL. They obviously needed more and there were plenty of bargains last offseason. I laugh at being told I had both sides of the cheap argument. I absolutely did not. I called them cheap for the very first time at the beginning of the season when they said they had no money then added a lot of money, and it would have been more had Peavy said yes the first time. In fact I called KW's trade for Peavy his best trade ever. Rios I question, and there is no way anyone will ever convince me KW was truly prepared to eat that entire contract. If he was and he really wanted him, he could have gotten him before he was put on waivers thus eliminating any possiblity of another team claiming him and missing out. All that matters is there is money available for another player. I hope they use it. Even if Kotsay and Jones are able to turn back the clock which I am very skeptical, the chances of those 2 and Quentin all making it through the season without at least one of them and probably at least 2 missing significant time have to be close to zero. They need another bat. I want Damon, although Boras being his agent and Jones' agent seems like it could be a roadblock. Taking possible playing time from Andruw might keep Boras from considering a White Sox offer. I think though if the reports about Atlanta and NY are true and they have a maximum of $2 million available each, $4-5 million with some incentives could get Scott to ignore his quandry.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2010 -> 06:16 AM) A Dick Allen comment, lol? Well, I guess that's good to hear...although it certainly be "spun" to mean they won't do anything now and will prefer to wait at least until the end of spring training and possibly well into the season to make a move at DH. Of course, the White Sox are also putting themselves into something of a Catch-22, the same situation Congress and President face with health care...namely, if they pass watered down legislation or withdraw and do nothing at all, BOTH will be utilized as potent arguments in the fall, no matter what happens in the next 9 months. So, in a similar vein, if the White Sox DON'T add an additional player, they've put it out there before the season that there wasn't a reason for them not to do this financially. Heck, you can even over-read into the comments that if they can bring back a banking sponsorship and some of the "ovens in the fire" come through, then we'll have significant breathing room with the payroll. So are they really being truthful about another player being added or just trying to PR spin the fanbase to get more season tickets sold? That's why I am absolutely not buying the fact that Ozzie actually wants the Kotsay/Jones combo for DH, OR Kotsay/Jones in RF. If you said to Ozzie, you can have Vlad Guerrero, Damon, Matsui or Jones/Kotsay, does anyone really think he would prefer the final option over the first 3? Ozzie's stubborn, but he's not that stupid when it comes to talent. I don't know why I get the hell I get when I turned out to be correct all along. I called them cheap last year when KW went into his $.50 speech BEFORE he got Peavy and Rios. So they did have money to burn. It wasn't buried in JR's backyard. He didn't forget he stashed it above the drop ceiling in his office. They had the money. Now payroll is a little higher and they admit, first JR last week, now even Brooks, without 7-11's 500k, they have money for another "established" player. Its not like they have sold more tickets yet. Single games haven't gone on sale. Some season ticketholders that haven't been able to upgrade for years have moved to better locations, so its a good assumption season ticket sales have declined over last season, probably just not at the pace they were anticipating. They are even hawking sponsorships and ballpark ad placement on their website, something I have never seen before, so you would assume they have had more sponsors previously. JR has been quoted as saying he will not lose money to win games. These are all facts. I was correct all along. Bring on Johnny Damon.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Jan 20, 2010 -> 07:41 PM) well this is good to hear....i spose it can't hurt any if he is in good shape...thats what ozzie wanted Its definitely not going to hurt that he's in shape. I just don't know if being a little hefty is what caused all his offensive woes the past 3 years. He definitely hasn't been a candidate for a Gold's Gym model for a long time and many of those years he was a force. We'll see. As been stated before, there is very little invested. If he sucks, cut him. Its worth the gamble.