Dick Allen

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 07:26 PM) .338 wOBA last year from Jones. Fields put up a .336 in '07 and a .287 last season. Chances are you're getting an upgrade here. Even if you could get Jones's .317 from '07 that's a substantial upgrade from Fields. I don't think Andruw Jones is anywhere near as bad as he was in 2008, all his peripherals were way off from his career norms, those corrected last year and he produced nicely. After April he hit below .200 the rest of the year. I really wonder why Texas didn't want him back. As long as he doesn't play too much, its fine, they can always release him if he struggles and JR won't have a heart attack. I just hope Quentin and either Pods or Crisp or whoever else they get to play in the OF can stay healthy. I really don't think Danks will be ready to play regularly in the big leagues in 2010. It is a total shift from the "we have to show the minor leaguers they will get a shot" position they had last year. It looks like Rutherford, Nix, Liillibridge, De Aza, if they aren't throw ins for other moves, will all be fighting for one spot, maybe, although there will probably be injuries at some point. Ozzie likes 12 pitchers, so its usually the 9 regulars and 4 bench guys, but if they rotate the DH its like 5 bench guys. The rotating DH thing I like if its an everyday-quality player that's being rotated. If its just guys like Kotsay and Jones being worked in, as much as Thome was hated around here, he's going to be thought of fondly pretty quickly into the season. I don't mind a veteran bench, even though I think they overpaid for Vizquel. Most of the minor leaguers the Sox have called up the past few years have appeared almost clueless. I am really looking forward to the real acquistions, the regular players and the bullpen.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:55 PM) a "slight upgrade over Josh Fields" is a backhand slap to the face of Jones and you know it. Maybe you should check the numbers. The last 3 years he's 220 for 1062 a .207 AVG. with 46 homers and 286 strikeouts. Over the sam period, Fields was 149-644 with 30 homers and 218 strikeouts. Sorry he's not a huge upgrade. He's a slight upgrade, and that might be optimistic. I certainly wasn't complaining.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:40 PM) LMAO, there is just no pleasing you LMAO who is complaining?

He probably is a slight upgrade over Josh Fields offensively for slightly more money, but nothing that can't be eaten. I'm shocked the Sox signed a Boras guy in November and Boras took it at this time. I do agree he appears to have had some help putting up numbers in the past. If anything he could be exhibit A to Bobby Jenks about what happens to guys who don't take their fitness seriously. Its a blah signing. I'm looking forward to the real moves. I'm just curious as to why the Rangers didn't want to bring him back.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Unless your offensive numbers were out of this world I don't see how a guy who played over 1500 games as a DH gets in. That's the rub. People will point to Harold's number of hits, and it was a lot, but where would he rank all time if the DH was in the NL and had been around since the beginning? Without the DH, and I know its a legit position now, Harold wouldn't have nearly the numbers he had. Like has been posted above, he was a very good player, the article saying he was a butcher in the field was wrong, he actually was not a bad defender and had a decent arm before his legs started failing. He made a lot of money, has a statue at USCF and a job as long as he wants one in the White Sox organization. But he's not a HOFer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 07:23 PM) Yeah, that Giambi contract had nothing at all to do with the fact that the Yankees lost in the 9th inning of the last game of the World Series the season before Giambi arrived and won it the first season after he was gone. I think the blame goes to Mike Mussina. They won three in a row. Then he comes, they don't win. He retires, they win.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 07:48 AM) I don't understand the philosophy some folks here have with the bullpen. I don't see any reason to add any more than one new arm to the pen, tops. And I think that concern is secondary to the fact that the team is short an OF and a DH right now, which are much more glaring holes. The Sox bullpen, despite its struggles last year, put up a 4.08 ERA, good for the middle of the pack in the AL. Save percentage was also mid-pack. This despite the fact that Linebrink (the main setup guy originally) imploded beyond anything he's done in his career, Jenks has his weakest season as a closer, Dotel (7th inning guy originally) had a down year career-wise, and Tony Pena failed to live up to expecations. Carrasco had basically the same year he had in 2008. The only bullpen arm of significant innings who actually pitched better than his career typically would indicate, was Matt Thornton. Given the fact that the above pitchers were relatively healthy, and none are particularly old as far as relievers go, I think there is a very good chance that most or all other than Thornton will improve in 2010. Add to that we have Dan Hudson, a high end pitching prospect by any measure, who will probably be added to that pen. And guys like Nunez, who look to have the talent, in the wings. If you can find a serious upgrade arm somewhere, somehow, without seriously denting the major league roster, then you do it. But barring that, I'd be in no hurry to upgrade the pen. I'd be focusing on those OF and DH slots. Dotel is gone and the bullpen was horrible last year. If the Sox picked up Pujols to DH and Holliday to play RF, if the bullpen performs like it did in 2009, they wouldn't win.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 07:46 AM) Why? As far as I can tell, there isn't a single reliever that has even been signed yet this off season. I was shocked at the giddyness of the Teahan and Vizquel acquisitions, not that the bullpen hasn't been addressed yet. Before anyone gets too excited about this team, that needs to be straightened out.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 11:22 PM) What are some alternatives you suggest the Sox could have spent $5M on this off-season instead then? It all depends on how Teahen does, to decide whether those moves will be worthwhile. Too early to pass judgement IMO, until you see how Teahen. Same sort of thing as the Rios waiver claim, albeit a lot more people including myself were critical of the move because of Rios's contract and his declining offensive output. I read where Orlando Hudson would be hard pressed to get the guarantee of a little over $3 million he received last year. Put him at 2B, leave Beckham at 3B, and I think the infield everyday defense is better than with Teahan, the offense is most likely better and you still have money left over. I keep reading about bargains. As giddy as people are about Teahan and Vizquel, and I find it shocking, the bullpen has yet to be addressed. There are plenty of reasons the Sox lost a lot in 2009. Having Omar Vizquel play 3B in the 8th and 9th, addresses only an extremely small percentage. As for waiting before commenting, if that's the case, why have a message board? KW said he was doing some projection with Teahan, why can't we? IMO the White Sox have spent $5 million that could have been spent on more pressing issues. Sure Vizquel is one of the greatest defensive players ever, but not only is he now 43, he's not going to play much. He had a little over 1 chance a game last year if you consider the 162 game schedule.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) Looks like Bobby is getting no sympathy from Kenny I agree with KW. Get your ass in better shape. If he wants to last for a while he will. If he thinks he can get by not being in good shape, he will regret it years from now. What's troubling is Jenks' fighting the concern. Doesn't he want to be the best he can be?

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 01:19 PM) Or the signing of an elite defender to backup 3 infield positions. Doesn't really matter how old you are when you're still fully capable of doing what a team asks of you. That's fine but what I don't like about the moves are Teahan/Vizquel while an upgrade from Getz/Lillibridge, may not be the $5 million upgrade it costs. I personally don't think Beckham at 2B, Teahan at 3B is much of a defensive upgrade from Getz/Nix at 2B Beckham at 3B. Offensively it could be, but Teahan is no lock to take off offensively. It kind of reminds me of the Cory Snyder acquisition. A talented guy who had a tough time making contact but was a scout's wet dream. Vizquel definitely can play 3B and SS better than Lillibridge or Nix, without a doubt and is an upgrade offensively over Lillibridge, but really not much at this stage. But how often is he going to be playing SS or 3B or 2B? Not much if no one gets hurt, plus Omar doesn't steal you bases anymore. Getz could get you a bag as could Lillibridge, plus we are talking about a guy who will be 43. He still seems nimble, but 43 year olds tend to tweak things a lot easier than younger guys. He definitely could be a weapon as a pinch bunter. It definitely appears the Sox will have one of the older benches in baseball.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 11:38 PM) Jiggets spends too much time with the hotdog vendor in the morning. That rots your brain. Jim Miller must of been given money by Ron Turner. Ron Turner is never the issue. Its always something else. Why can't Cutler be blamed for missing 3 wide open receivers? How is that Turner's fault? As for the vanilla offense, look what happens when they try anything different. They lose big yards. Jim Miller was talking about it weeks ago. The personnel can't grasp anything that isn't simple.

IMO, Tampa is not going to trade a real good player for Jenks unless the White Sox eat a lot of money.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) DA, I know that you want to be argumentative with me, but for a guy that is not even guaranteed a major league contract, these type of players don't usually pass them up. He had to beg just to get a minor league contract last year so he could learn from Jaramillo, and while he showcased some power, his numbers were again incredibly underwhelming, especially considering he was hitting in optimal situations for him to succeed. I can't see why the Sox would give Jones a guaranteed contract right now, and I can't see Boras having him sign a minor league contract, even if that is all he could command at this particular time. Maybe right before spring training when they know how each roster will be set, but not now. I love how you use the argumentitive thing. You were the one who started arguing with me when I mentioned Gagne. I had recently read how he was going to sign a minor league contract and attempt a comeback.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) Upton's the kind of guy that I'd really hate to overpay for and then have him go all Delmon Young on us. So talented but seems like he's been struggling forever. He was really good in 2007. 2008 he had wrist issues but still had a decent year except for power. Last year he wasn't good. He has also been known not to exactly give his all. He has a ton of talent. If you could get him reasonably, he could be a star.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 03:15 PM) I don't think Boras really enters into the equation much when it's such a low-value contract. I would think he wouldn't have his client sign what the Sox would want him to sign in November.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 03:06 PM) Well, my personal choice was Andruw Jones. At least BJ Ryan hasn't been getting lit up in the American Legion leagues... But I guess you're right, they are both probably horrendous. It just seems like Ryan could make a comeback from his health issues, whereas Gagne won't make a comeback from pure suckland. Jones would excite a lot more than Vizquel and Boras is his rep.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 03:08 PM) As in the past, or like, the last few days? Recently. Its a blurb in a Tampa paper. http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/ra...catcher/1053598 I wonder what Cowley thinks.

Supposedly the Sox have made some inquiries into getting BJ Upton. That would definitely make Teahan a 3B.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 02:54 PM) With a much higher ceiling? I would hope if we sign Gagne, we take Kenny to get his brain examined, and we don't tell a soul, for fear of being laughed at for the remainder of the offseason. Why would BJ Ryan have a much higher ceiling? He was released by 2 teams last year. Toronto has to pay him $10 million in 2010. I think you could say, however, any of the guys mentioned have a higher ceiling if everything goes well than a 43 year old light hitting SS.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) He does not match the description of this player in the least bit, DA. A cheap reclimation project? He might not be able to be reclimated, but he certainly would be a cheap reclimation project who isn't as exciting as the Vizquel signing, which if you think about it, has to be a very dull signing.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) I wasn't saying Gagne wouldn't come back. I'm saying why would you want a guy that can't even pitch in the freaking Independent League effectively? The Sox have brought plenty of guys who couldn't do much at lower levels to spring training.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) Gagne is pitching in the Independent League, and posted an ERA in the mid-4's last year. It's definitely not him. I think Saint may be on to something here...BJ Ryan does fit quite well with what Doc said as well as what this team needs... Gagne said he was attempting a comeback and would be willing to sign a minor league deal. So it would be a no risk deal. Unless its Laynce Nix and he wants to play with his brother, maybe in Charlotte.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I'm thinking pitcher as well. I can't imagine we sign another reclamation project that's a fielder, I mean, besides backup C, what is left that wouldn't be starting. And if they are to be starting - fml. He did say its someone who isn't as exciting as Vizquel and I don't think anyone fell off their chairs when the Vizquel news broke, so you are probably right. Maybe it is Blanco, but I don't think he would count as a reclimation project, and he did say probably higher upside, so that would hint at pitcher.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) my guess is wilson betemit naw i think its gonna be a head scratcher move like really??? why _____? this guy blows. and then its gonna turn out that hes a stud.... like chad tracy or somethin. [/color]or mark prior I think its probably someone like Justin Speier, or Eric Gagne or Paul LoDuca.