Dick Allen

I would hope the Sox would try to trade him before non tendering him. He has to have value. Guys with numbers just like his are signing for some decent money. It wouldn't bother me if they dumped him though. While he has been very good most of the time, he does seem to be pitching on borrowed time.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:31 PM) Interesting that one of Putz's incentive clauses is "games finished". Looks like the writing in is on the wall for Jenks. It would seem to me that you are correct, but then again he could be a very cheap solution as a set up guy who takes Dotel's spot and if he regains his form of 2006-7 can take Linebrink's spot. I still think Linebrink comes up big in 2010, and I like Pena better than most. It does seem funny his salary almost doubles if he becomes a closer. It seems to me they have given him the impression he will get a shot. Who knows.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 09:38 AM) DA, you are also dismissing the defensive impact Gardner would have on our lineup. Having a solid defensive outfield would make our good pitching staff even better. The White Sox are going to have to score runs. I understand Beckham will be around a little longer. Its hoped Quentin comes back strong. Its also hoped Rios returns to what he was in 2006-7 and that the past couple seasons were offensive flukes for Teahan. The offense was ranked near the bottom. A lot of the production, Thome, Dye the first half of the year, Pods, are gone. Replacing them with guys like Gardner and Andruw Jones even if a couple of the things we are hoping for come true isn't going to make the White Sox an offensive juggernaut. As I have posted, Gardner wouldn't be a bad guy to have on the roster, but to say he's the regular CF and leadoff hitter is just asking for dissappointment. If he was that guy, NY wouldn't give up the players they did and pay Granderson what they will have to pay if they thought he would be as good as this board thinks he will be. He's a 4th or 5th OF.

QUOTE (League @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 07:15 AM) Well then he replaces what we lost in Getz + Mark Teahan. I like having Becko's bat at 2b instead of Getz and Gardner has a good chance of outperforming Pods next season, so it looks like an upgrade across the board. The White Sox offense wasn't good enough with Pods hitting over .300. Making Gardner the leadoff guy just weakens the White Sox offense. A nice bench player is what he is, but if KW gives up something good to get him, I think he's crazy.

QUOTE (League @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 06:45 AM) Plus defense at a premium position and OBP potential. I said offensively. IMO Getz has as much OBP potential as Gardner. Getz got slammed around here. People said he had no power, wasn't exactly young for a rookie and wouldn't get better. You can say the exact same thing about Gardner. If he is such a stud waiting to happen, why are the Yankees, a team cutting payroll, bringing in expensive pieces to play in front of him? He's not an everyday player. He wouldn't be a bad guy to have off the bench, but leading off every day will make the fire Greg Walker threads grow.

Exactly what does Gardner bring offensively that Chris Getz did not?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 08:10 PM) A career .389 OBP in the minors isn't bad. .414 in AAA in 2008 before getting called up to the Yanks. He won't hit for power, but tons of speed and based upon the stats a pretty advanced eye. I figure Gardner is about the level of Willie Harris offensively with less power,but makes more contact.He might get on a little more. Fine for the bench, but the ignitor of your offense, you won't have a top of the line offense. He's worth acquiring as long as you don't put too much on him.

Gardner as an occassional starter, a pinch runner and a defensive replacement sounds pretty good. Brett Gardner every day leadoff man is pretty, pretty, sad. And those penciling in Putz as a lights out reliever haven't been paying attention. He is auditioning for teams. They still don't know if he can throw 70 MPH.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 09:16 PM) I think Joe Johnson is incredibly underrated on this thread in particular. If he played in a big market, he'd be a bonafide star. SG's that average 21PPG, 5RB's and 5AS's, don't exactly grow on trees. And he's basically in his prime right now at 28. As for the Bulls terrible effort on their part tonight, and the blowtorch is firmly going to be locked on them going forward. When you shoot only 36% and commit 19TO's (more TO's than assists tonight, ugh), you're not going to win many games of basketball at all. Ben Gordon averaged 21 pts. 3.5 reb and 3.5 assists a game for the Bulls last year and he's in his prime. He may be an upgrade over Gordon, but its not huge, and certainly won't make the Bulls Eastern Conference contenders.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 08:49 PM) His team was playing defense earlier in the year. What happened? Vinny isn't a top 5 coach, but canning him makes no different. It's a player problem. And a lot of what you see ran out there on offense is the players. There were quotes, I believe, that the team couldn't grasp the offense for the most part in training camp last year, so they had to scrap it and hope to put in more new stuff as the season progressed. I'm most assured this came from Del Harris who stated it was the most difficult year and team he ever had been a part of because of the lack of bball IQ and the selfishness of players(apparently Deng had beef with BG and Rose). BTW, this team is better off losing and getting a high pick then gaining like 3 more wins for nothing. While normally I would agree and say losing helps the Bulls now, when they are going to try to sign Wade or LeBron, and I know they are probably pipedreams, losing kills. If they won 50 games this year, they would have a better shot at those guys. They put all their eggs in this FA class's basket. Getting a guy like Joe Johnson or Boozer, while nice, isn't a huge upgrade over Ben Gordon, and that's not good enough to win. Tonight, the commentators on ESPN were ripping the Bulls effort. If Vinny can't get them to play hard, they need to find somebody who can. We have seen this kind of play before way too much IMO. The next 9 months may really determine if the Bulls remain significant in this town. I think there is a chance they could become like the Blackhawks used to be. Its amazing their ticketholders have stuck by them so long, but I really wonder how much more they will take. I think most think the Bulls should be competing for at least an Eastern Conference championship in 2010-11. What does Gar Forman do?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) After seeing this team under two coaches in a short period of time, it is pretty obvious it isn't the coach... This is just a dumb team, and they don't have a finisher, at all. The team is very different from what Skiles and Boylan had. Salmons, Miller and Rose get huge minutes. Gibson wasn't around. Noah is more advanced. I agree the baskeball IQ doesn't seem to be there a lot, but is that all on the players? A top coach makes sure Rose gets the last shot, not Salmons hoisting up another well off 3. All these blowouts can't be making Chicago a very attractive destination for soon-to-be FAs. I think the Bulls need to start focusing on who they really want coaching this team going forward. Gordon was a lot more valuable than even his biggest fans probably knew. It may not be able to get done now, but they need a headstart. Its obvious Vinny is not a championship-calibur head coach. His teams don't play defense. They have to do something to stop the bleeding. I have no idea what it could be. Maybe a new coach can shock them into a few more wins. I have no idea, but except for JR's profit margins, things with the Bulls look pretty bleak.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 10:08 PM) I haven't thrown in the towel on this team yet, but I took it out of my pocket & i'm ready to throw. I hope you are more successful throwing towels than Lovie Smith.

That's just sad. With the shoe tying incident, and blowout loss to Toronto, now the embarrassing defeat to a 1-19 team, Vinny has to be dangling from a thread. Of course he had no personnel help, but these are things that should not happen. Vinnie put his house up for sale. Maybe he knows something.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 09:14 PM) not without 1-2 major offensive peices. Our offense is really really bad as it stands I agree but if Andruw Jones acts like its 2006 and Teahan acts like its 2006, and Rios and Vizquel turn back the clock to 2006 and Peavy pitches like he did in 2007 when he won the Cy Young, and Putz comes in and dominates like he did those seasons, the Sox are set. Of course if we go by 2006 numbers, Dye and Thome should definitely return. I put the probability of everyone being able to get to those levels at 0%.

With the Sox acquisitions as of late, if they get Putz, and if they can all turn the clock back to 2006 or 2007, the Sox should have no problem with the AL Central.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 07:34 PM) Yeah... really I would do the same thing if for no other reason than just to mess with people. It could be used as a smokescreen as was suggested earlier in the thread. If people think he's working on a Halladay deal, they may miss what he really working on. He does like the "under the radar" approach. Fewer Sox big deals get leaked before they actually happen than any other team IMO. I'm sure he's just ressponding exactly how he would like every other club that is asked potential deals with the White Sox to respond. Even though Putz is a FA, I bet KW isn't so happy Thornton let out his interest.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 07:34 PM) what are these horror stories youve heard? i mean ive heard hes always been a primadonna, but i haven't heard anythign that has led me to believe that he's that much worse than everett was He's been known as trouble from the beginning. Montreal traded him and KW really wanted him back then, but Cleveland got him. He doesn't stay anywhere very long because he's nothing but trouble.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 07:30 PM) That would be interesting. Wouldn't it be something if Bradley found a home with the Sox and hit .325 getting along with the clubhouse. Now, I try not to let anything on the northside cloud my opinions of the Sox, but it would be sweet if Bradley tore the cover off of the ball for the Sox while the cubs paid his salary. I know he has a lot of baggage but so did Jurassic Carl. There's a better chance Brent Lillibridge wins the triple crown in 2010 than Milton Bradley going through a season without issues.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 07:25 PM) I agree. And if you know anything about Kenny Williams, he's not going to bring that psycho into the clubhouse. I think you're right, and I hope you're right. I played fantasy baseball and stratomatic, just like a lot of people on this board, but real life baseball is a little different. It isn't all about the numbers. This guy has pretty much had an issue everywhere he's been. They made it sound like he was a model citizen in Texas, then they found out he sat out games with minor injuries so he wouldn't take a chance at hurting his stats. He's been an asshole his entire career. He isn't going to change.

I really can't believe there is a White Sox fan alive that wants Milton Bradley on the White Sox.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 07:11 PM) What is up with the obsession with homeruns and RBI's? Especially RBI's... that would probably be the last stat I would look at, if I even looked at it at all, for judging how good of a hitter somebody is. It's such a team dependent stat, and the Kansas City Royals aren't exactly going to put a huge number of men on base for him to drive them in. That being said, I wouldn't expect a whole lot from Teahen this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was more 2006 than 2008-9 this season. OK, how about checking out his numbers with 2 out and RISP the last 2 seasons? Pitcheresque.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) He most definitely would have gotten more. For 2010, If he's the same player he's been, and you wouldn't want to pay him in 2011 and 2012, well, now you have to.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) Ah. Interesting. That could be an incredible fit for the Sox. I wonder if that is why Kenny played coy when Roy's name came up? I think they could have asked him about any player currently with another team and he would have responded the same way. I think people read way too much into his response.

Don't the White Sox have payroll issues? Doesn't Halladay make a ton of money? Doesn't Halladay have a no trade clause? Hasn't he made it clear he wants to train in FL? Don't the White Sox train in AZ? If they have to money to upgrade to Halladay, and they wouldn't keep their current top 4 intact, they should spend it on some bullpen help and the Sox need some offense. White Sox starting pitchers were #2 in ERA in the AL last season. The offense was near the bottom. Having Quentin healthy would be a plus. Having Beckham an additional 2 months would be a plus. Having Rios hit .260 would be a plus, but not enough. Teahan, Jones, Vizquel isn't exactly an offensive upgrade from Thome, Dye, Getz even Nix.

The Sun Times reported on Saturday that the ND coach could be named on Sunday with Stoops the frontrunner. It never happened. How come Cowley did pop off?