Dick Allen

If Detroit wins tonight, the Sox will be officially eliminated. Det. has 4 games left with Minnesota and a Det victory tonight would guarantee at least one of them would get to 83 wins.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 08:49 PM) Pitching coaches tend to be A LOT more important than hitting coaches. People like Coop, Dave Duncan, and Leo Mazzone have gotten A LOT out of pitchers who aren't all that great. Far fewer hitting coaches have had that the impact that these guys have. Leo Mazzone can't find a job.

According to KW, while Walker is the hitting coach, Cora, Baines, and Ozzie all have imput with the hitters. If Walker must be fired, those three should go with him.

I'm happy he's gone, but Cabrera has made the White Sox his b**** this series.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) Scott Merkin's twitter says : http://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/4327849217 KW apparently doesn't realize his team has been bad enough they won't have to shell out a #1 pick.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 10:23 PM) According to Cowley he "popped it in stretch", whatever the f*** that means. I can understand him popping the buttons on his shirt, but his calf? Will he be available for the playoffs?

QUOTE (CSF @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 10:19 PM) According to Sox postgame on the Score. Did he eat one?

QUOTE (daggins @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 05:29 PM) While an outfield of Rios and Upton would be pretty sexy defensively, there is a lot of underachieving going on there at the plate. Also I don't think we have the bait to pull that trade off. If Upton ever could get motivated to play up to his potential he would be in the MVP race every year. If he can't play for Madden, I really wonder if he would be better elsewhere, or if he's just a guy everyone will be left with wanting more. Defensively Upton in CF and Rios in RF would be about as good as it gets.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 02:52 PM) I figured if anyone liked it, it would be you. No, I really have high hopes for the 2010 squad. This division is still going to be trash next year, but the difference is the Sox will be a ton better. The Sox ***SHOULD**** basically walk into the playoffs next season, and if they can get there, our rotation could be the best one in the playoffs. 2010 will be cakewalk. Edit: also the Tigers let Magglio's option vest. They're still paying Bonderman, Willis, etc. and that rotation is definitely top-heavy with little at the bottom. Rodney is a free agent so they'll have to overpay for bullpen arms again, and I believe Lyon is actually a FA too. Zumaya should still be hurt like always. The Royals are the Royals and the Indians traded everyone. The Twins are our only 2010 competition but they'll be in a new park where a lot of their bulls*** won't work anymore. Their rotation isn't as strong as ours by any means and their offense outside of the Big Two will still be pretty lacking. The White Sox have been no better since acquiring Peavy and Rios. Granted Peavy has been hurt so it doesn't count but I cannot see any reason for anyone thinking the Sox are in perfect shape for a cakewalk next year. This is a team that is 11 games under .500 vs. the AL. AJ and Konerko will be a year older. There's no guarantee Rios will be a big contributor. You can't be sure Quentin will be MVP-esque again. The chances of Pods repeating his season this year are slim. Beckham should be better. Dye will probably be gone, but as bad as he was in the second half, he was equally as good in the first half. People are happy Thome is gone, but equaling his production won't be easy. I would take Kubel and Span in a heartbeat. Cuddyer isn't a bad player either. If Minnesota pitches they are going to be good. Detroit's owner doesn't care about cash, he will spend to win. KC should suck, but also should be improved and they had no problem taking the series with the Sox this past weekend, and the Sox were 9-9 against them this season.Cleveland is bad and probably will remain bad for a long time. It seems every time the White Sox are favored to win they fall very short. The bullpen needs to be fixed. Maybe keeping it almost as is could be the answer. But you can't count on it. The Sox will need a RF and another player who could play almost anywhere and DH. They will need Quentin to stay healthy and find his 2008 form. I have a bad feeling if they bring Pods back that he will be the player most of baseball thought he was when he had to call KW for a job. I'm not enamoured with Figgins but if the Sox spend money on him, I won't be upset. The other thing is we have no idea where they are going with payroll. Contreras, Thome, Dye, Dotel, MacDougal,Viciedo's signing bonus all off the books. That's almost $50 million. Maybe Jenks goes., that's $55 million. Peavy and Rios add a lot and several raises. They should have some money to spend. But I thought that last winter.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 10:34 AM) Comparing Pods and Bradley in the OPB category is a losing battle. Bradley takes him, hard. I'm starting to come around to your line of thinking. Bradley would be a tremendous positive influence on the Sox younger players. They will learn how to deflect blame and come up with excuses for everything.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) No, but adding a guy whose main skill is getting on-base will. It really worked out well for the Cubs...........

Bradley's troubles with the Cubs weren't the first time he's had issues. He's a cancer. If KW acquires him even if the Cubs ate all of his contract, JR should immediately fire KW and release Bradley, but I know there is no way KW takes this guy, even though he was very interested in acquiring him back when he was an Expo.

Saturday night I went to the game and the White Sox wives were collecting food for the homeless. Pods' wife was at my entrance as I was headed to the Jim Beam Club. Quentin's wife was with her and she's pretty hot, but looks like but her compared to Mrs. Pods. OMG.

Who in the world would want Milton Bradley poisoning their team?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 20, 2009 -> 04:52 PM) The point is simple: Chris Getz is not the best 2b on this roster. Jayson Nix is also a rookie baseball player, who has shown the ability to hit the ball out of the ballpark, and does not rely on hitting it softly in front of a defender and running like hell. The platoon makes sense for the rest of rest year, but when your strength is excellent bat control, your potential at the major league level is limited. Break it down for me: what does Chris Getz do right? How many runs does he contribute to this team? What inherent value comes from his strengths? I've acknowledged how good he is when he gets on base, but just because we have 8 other guys who can hit on a team, doesn't necessitate the need for a ROLEPLAYER (as you said). Chris Getz is not the biggest problem on this team, I never said that, but he's not an ultimate solution fort next year. Its funny you say this about a guy with a .708 OPS in AA: There's no reason to call a 20 year old kid who hits .280 in AA, in his 1st pro season a bust. No reason for it, no truth to it. Viciedo is going to improve very quickly. I wouldn't be suprised to see him get a call-up next September. Yet write off Getz during a rookie year he's had a .692 OPS as a guy who will never hit the ball hard.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 20, 2009 -> 04:33 PM) Friday on the SCORE, during B&B, they mentioned Dye may be bad enough to put himself back on the team. I read somewhere where Dye has played his way to type B status.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Sep 18, 2009 -> 01:31 PM) People need to realize that the Bears add nothing to Solider Field and the Park District. If the Bears left Solider Field, the Park District would make more money on Soldier Field. The Park District could give two s***s about the Bears and Walter Payton and anything they want, neither organization will do anything to benefit the other. I personally think the Olympics could transform many of the Chicago sports venues, including the Cell, Wrigley and Soldier Field. The best stadium in Chicago is Toyota Park. If it wasn't for the Bears, there wouldn't have been $600 million worth of improvements for the Park District to make money on any other events, of which the Bears contributed $249 million. Soldier Field would still be a dilapitated dump. They better care about the Bears. In fact, if the Bears never played there, I question if it would even be in use today. 99.9% of its recognition in Chicago and the rest of the world is because of the Bears, and Walter Payton is probably the greatest Bear of them all. Certainly the greatest Bear to play his entire career at Soldier Field. I don't see where having his statue on Soldier Field ground is a slap in the face of fallen soldiers.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 11:15 PM) It's not Ozzie's style to have a R-R then a L-L back to back. He likes those R-L-R spots as much as he likes the lefty/lefty or vise-versa tendencies for a matchup on a hitter. I can see Buehrle being moved back but probably to a #2 having a Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Freddy/Huddy/whomever rotation or Floyd being a #1 which Ozzie and Coop (and Jason) endorsed in the past having a Floyd-Buehrle-Peavy-Danks-Freddy/Huddy/whomever. Of course this all depends on what Kenny does in the offseason on perhaps bringing in a solid starter if he doesn't like his options. Now.. if Ozzie changed his philosophy on that, then this is all moot. Danks and his agent will look like geniuses if Buerhle is a $14 million a year 4th starter. Floyd may switch agents since he signed the extension and Danks didn't. Peavy,Danks,Floyd, Buerhle, 5th starter.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 10:58 PM) What. Per the Tribune: Mark Buehrle will make at least one more start this season, despite having thrown 200-plus innings, but by next season he may find himself the fourth Sox starter instead of the ace. Manager Ozzie Guillen envisions Jake Peavy being No. 1, with Gavin Floyd, John Danks and Buehrle coming next as a way to have him throw fewer innings. "I talked to [pitching coach Don Cooper] about our plans for the future and we might move him back, not be the first guy anymore, be the third or fourth," Guillen said. "[That would] give him time to recover and be consistent. Every time Buehrle goes out there, he gives us a chance to win." He has thrown at least 200 innings and started at least 30 games for nine straight seasons. Despite being on a limited throwing schedule since spring training, Buehrle will make his next start Wednesday, at least as of now. That's fine with him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 08:52 PM) Nolan Ryan and Catfish Hunter were also trained for that. Its the equivalent of saying that someone in 1968 ran the marathon, so Usain Bolt should be able to run the marathon. These guys are trained differently, and aren't set up to give that kind of distance in a game. This is about Buerhle. He's faced 835 batters this year. He averages 930 batters faced his career. I think he's properly trained to finish the season unless he has an injury. I mentioned those guys because he said guys threw a lot less pitches back in the day which simply isn't true. Now, according to Ozzie, next year they plan on making him a #3 or #4 starter.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Yes, but not all of them were able to do that. There are a lot of good pitchers (like, say, Freddy Garcia) who can't handle that load, but can still help you win a World Series. In general, pitchers back in the good old, pre-steroid, high-mound, huge-ballpark days also had a number of advantages that today's players don't. Today's pitching environment doesn't even remotely resemble that in the Dead Ball Era. Right, because Nolan Ryan isn't some freak of nature or anything, but is representative of the average #2 MLB starter today instead. Next, you'll argue that Quentin should drink beer during games, because it worked great for Babe Ruth. And Buerhle has pitched as much as anyone in his era. Why is he all of a sudden so fragile? Seriously, if pitching 12 more innings on regular rest is going to hurt Mark Buerhle, get the surgeon ready, you're just delaying the inevitable. Just shut everyone down. These games are meaningless. So what if they don't have 2000 innings. Any innings pitched would move them closer to your magical mark. They should just bring up non prospects and get killed every game the rest of the year, that way, their draft position improves and no one gets hurt.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 03:26 PM) ( Pitchers threw fewer pitches per inning because the mound was higher, the ballparks were smaller, the bats/balls were softer, there was no DH in the AL, and hitters weren't using steroids and HGH. Of course, that resulted in less strain on their arms. The talent pool was also less diluted because there were fewer teams, which translated into fewer marginal pitchers who couldn't physically handle that type of load. I'd love to see your supporting evidence for this. Especially in light of the popular argument in this thread that two more starts will have a miniscule effect on his arm. Nolan Ryan once threw 259 pitches in one game. Pitchers used to make 40 starts a year and would go well over 100 pitches. BTW, Ryan also has 3300 more IP than Buerhle, and he's now president of Texas, and is trying to get away from pitch counts. Your fewer pitches is crazy. Hawk compares Buerhle to Catfish Hunter. The most batters Buerhle ever faced in a season was 1016 in 2004. Hunter faced more batters than 1016 8 times.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 03:12 PM) We don't have $28 million committed to Beckham or Quentin and I'm talking about shoulder and elbow injuries unique to pitchers due to repetitive arm use, not freak accidents. So that's a bad comparison. That said, I'd probably shut down Quentin due to his plantar fascitis if the Sox were out of it. Then Rios should sit because the Sox owe him $60 million, and what the heck is Peavy doing? They owe him $55 million and repetitive arm use will be used. Sit him down. These guys shouldn't pitch one inning in a spring training game either. How is it pitchers used to pitch 300 innings every year and their arms didn't blow out? You can't baby pitchers or once you decide to extend them there will be trouble. Start babying Buerhle won't be helping him, it will hurt him.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 19, 2009 -> 02:25 PM) So, putting on a show for the fans trumps the intelligent handling of players in meaningless games? That sounds like a pretty bad way to handle a baseball team. And in case you haven't noticed, the "high-caliber" Sox players aren't really performing right now. No, it doesn't prove your point. Freddy was damaged goods in early 2006, and everybody on this board knew it. If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that Freddy's ERA ballooned from 3.87 to 4.53, he gave up a career-high 32 homers, and he lost 5-6 mph off of his fastball. The latter point is particularly important, as it highlights how the 2005 season not only permanently damaged Freddy's arm, but forced him to completely change his approach on the mound. If the Sox didn't make the playoffs in 2005, who knows what would've happened. But there's no denying that a pitcher's arm can only handle so much - over both long- and short-term periods of work. If you're not playing meaningful games in September and October, there's point in rolling the dice by putting more mileage on somebody's shoulder and elbow. What if Beckham or Quentin got hit on the hand tonight with a pitch and broke it? Maybe they shouldn't play either. I'd say that happening especially for Quentin is more probable than MB getting hurt because he threw 215 innings this year instead of 203, wouldn't you?

Jayson Nix leading off. A guy owed $60 million hitting 8th and a DH batting 9th. You don't see that everyday.