Dick Allen

QUOTE (Tmar @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 02:06 PM) Also from the same area of the site, U.S. Cellular Field is now the 5th best pitcher's park in Major League Baseball. Although that could be because two of the top five games pitched in the AL were there. I think the White Sox starting pitchers splits have been better at home than on the road the past couple of years. I could be wrong.

Why would they release him? Didn't he already clear waivers when they sent him down before? Does he have to go through again? I'm sure he'd clear. Why not keep him around in case you need a pinch runner in September?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) Well there you go, according to your own admission, I don't parrot the company line. Hopefully that pointless thing can be dropped now. No I don't believe JR when he said that that stuff doesn't affect the bottom line, because common sense tells me it does. If you start taking people away from the games, sponsors from the games, and less concession and parking revenues, how does that not affect the bottom line? It makes no sense. First off, If Forbes is accurate, they have banked a lot of money. For instance if they said in 2006 the made $30 million, then in 2007 they increased payroll $30 million but Forbes said they made $20 million that year, they would be sitting on $50 million even after the payroll increase. If Forbes is not accurate, KW shouldn't be spouting off numbers they come up with when they say the White Sox spend more on payroll vs. total revenues than every team in baseball. The reason I think he's saying it won't have any effect on payroll is because they are planning another huge drop in payroll next year. This way they will say it was planned all along. Contreras, Dye, Thome, Dotel and MacDougal off the books. Viciedo's $4.2 million bonus paid. If you want to believe the $5 million to Tucson having an effect on payroll (I don't). You're looking a close to $50 million coming off the books. They could have signed guys like Garland, Hudson, Cruz for one year with an option. It was really no risk. This is my 20th year with season tickets. I have never complained about the payroll until this year. I think its dirty pool to raise prices and drop payroll. It shouldn't cost more to watch Brent Lillibridge than it does even a Tadihito Iguchi. Other teams are doing stuff like having $1 menus at their concession stands. When they asked the White Sox if they would follow suit the response was "not at this time." , so things must not be that bad at 35th and the Ryan. When anyone from the White Sox talks about how they feel for all the fans who are struggling win this economy (and thankfully I'm not yet) I wish someone would tell them actions are stronger than words. BTW, I'm not the only one thinking MLB and the White Sox are using the bad economy as a crutch: Stark compared 2009 April attendance to 2008, excluding the New York teams given their new stadiums. He found virtually no change, overall. One anonymous agent complained that Bud Selig "overdramatized the potential financial losses so as to limit and to artificially control spending on free agency."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 01:36 PM) Even if you add in that game with a full attendence of the 25,042, that only brings the average up to 26694 or just about 100 more per game. But the reality is that they DID lose all revenues from one game, should we ignore that? I don't know why I waste my time when you argument is always you are such a JR and KW luver, lolz. The irony is that you're always on the JR and KW suck no matter what happens side of things. Unless you have their records in front of you, I'd love to know whom else we should be listening to on what the team is making... I guess I could always take the word of the person who talks about how cheap the organization is, and how stupid its management and ownership is an objective source of information. Anyways, the profit #'s would be compelling if they weren't always followed by a raise in payroll the next year. The worth of the team means nothing to what the payroll is. GM is worth billions, but it doesn't mean they have a dime to their name. You should know that. The playoff #'s could also be compelling , but you also have to keep in mind that a large chunk of that money flows back to the players in the form of playoff bonuses, and to MLB. How many home games have they had? 10 or 11. 25000 would up the average between 2000 and 2500 a game. All of the KW screwed up here, here, and here stuff is a complete misdirect away from the original point, and has nothing to do with the bottom line of organizational revenues. It is completely immaterial and just distracts from what the organization is taking in is less than the year before. Unless you have the books, I don't know how you can argue otherwise with the economic reality of 2009, coupled with the fall in attendance and the fall of sponsorships. First off, I like JR. I think KW has a swollen ego, but I have praised many of his moves. I did use management as a source of information. JR said last year's team was no fun to watch. So he slashed payroll and raised ticket, parking and concession prices. If you say concession revenues are going to be down, what successful business model says to raise prices for less demand. JR also said the loss of sponsors would not affect the payroll, so why must you say it will if everything he says is gospel? Boyer said Motorola mentioned it would have to lay off 10 people if they continued with the sponsorship. I gave a pretty big overestimation as saying 10 people making $250k. Thats $2.5 million. While players get some of the playoff gate the 3 games drew 120,000. Considering the cost index for a family of 4 is about $220 for a White Sox game, the 5th highest in baseball, that's $2.2 million a game gross. That's a $6.6 million gross for the 3 games. That's at regular season prices. I think $2.5 million is a reasonable number at the very least for the team's take for those 3 games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 01:31 PM) Were there any of those 0 attendance double headers last year? In September, so the average after a 0 after 10 or 11 dates will put the average out of whack. It was ahead of last April's pace.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) So going back to all of the economy/attendance/payroll arguements we had over the winter, I actually went in and checked what our attendance #'s looked like this year so far, to the same point last year. Through 12 games this year we are averaging 24,608. Through the same point last year, we averaged 26,095. In other words there are about 10% less people at ballgames this year. Couple that reality with the big losses in sponsorships that Jerry has been talking about, and this franchise could have been in major trouble financially, if they hadn't have made the move to raise revenues and cuts costs somehow. It might not be the best thing for the team on the field, but the reality is that the Sox were either going to cut a little bit now, or a whole helluva a lot later. Watch and see the losses that Detroit is going to take this year, and the huge purge that is going to take place up there, and tell me if you would rather see that happen here, or the way that JR and the Sox have done things. The revenue picture you are trying to paint just isn't real. At best the Sox are probably even on ticket revenue (with the fall at the turnstiles getting balanced by the raise in ticket prices), and losing money on concessions, parking, and advertising versus last year. The White Sox attendance was ahead of last years' pace until the rainout wiped out a game. A goose egg with only about 11 dates will hurt the average. I love how you tell me the revenue picture I paint isn't real, yet the only picture you come up with is the one KW and JR give you. They cut the second most in the major leagues this past offseason and JR when crying about the lost sponsorships said it would not affect White Sox payroll. Then he said KW had a 3 year board.....You want to bet it isn't slashed an even larger amount next season? They also had 3 bonus gates last year, all sellouts. So if they planned to break exactly even last year, those bonus gates would cover the Motorola loss wouldn't it, considering they said Motorola would have to let 10 people go if they continued with the sponsorship. According to Forbes, and KW references Forbes when it says their revenue to payroll ratio is the best in baseball, they have made over $70 million in profit the past 3 seasons combined. What did they do with that $70 million? Don't tell me put it in payroll because those figures are taking payroll into account. Of course the White Sox would say Forbes doesn't have any idea what its talking about when they come up with those numbers. The most recent figures now have the team worth $450 million up to 10th in the majors. KW talking about making the games day games because they can't afford the electric bill is trash. I'm not asking him to boost the payroll to $200 million. But when good players are available for bargain prices, don't insult the fanbase and say guys like Owens, and Lillibridge and Wise are as good or better than the players available. Don't tell the fanbase you thought about signing Jon Garland but realized you had the exact same pitcher in Jeff Marquez. It just isn't true. Here's an example: I wanted Juan Cruz bad. He would have cost a first round pick. So what. You save the bonus you have to give to that pick and get an established major leaguer at a bargain price. The bullpen is nails. You don't have to deal with the MacDougals and Egberts and Broadways. A team that charges its fans more than any team other than the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Cubs owes the people paying a little more than that.

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 11:18 AM) If BA is out, wouldn't the Sox go with Lilli in CF, Pods in LF, JD in RF, and TCQ DH? What's the fascination with Lillibridge getting regular time? He brings 2 things to the table. A good glove and speed. He's best suited as a defensive replacement and a pinch runner. Using him as a pinch runner will get him on base just as much if not more than playing him every day would and it would save you several outs.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 09:28 AM) So we have some roster moves coming up today or tomorrow. Thome is going to test the heel today, supposedly, and may go to the DL... Owens packed up his stuff and left yesterday... Anderson is maybe hurt, possibly just sore... and Getz is hoping to come back. My predictions... --Getz comes back Friday and plays. --Owens gets outrighted, Pods takes his place --Anderson just rests for a few days, which gives Pods a few games starting --Thome I am not sure on. I'd guess he'll be ready to go, and its a non-issue. If he goes to the DL, we'll get Andy Phillips added to the team. If Thome and BA are out, with MacDougal and Owens probably off the roster, who are we going to blame if the Whtie Sox ever lose?

QUOTE (hogan873 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 08:20 AM) Back when we had Ritchie (shudder), I remember Manuel using him to PH because "he was a NL pitcher and knows how to hit." Yeah, he struck out. It makes some sense in interleague play. AL rosters carry an extra pitcher usually because of the DH so when playing by NL rules, the bench is a little short.

QUOTE (hogan873 @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 07:29 AM) Whilst reading the posts in this thread I chuckled, cringed, shook my head, and even muttered a few obsenities. The consensus seems to be that although Pods is not a good option he is all we have right now. And I pretty much agree but do not think he will be as bad as some think. So, IF he is called up and starts in centerfield we will find out. What made me angry was the complaining of the Swisher trade. How many times last year did I read posts calling for Swisher to be traded...RIGHT NOW!? As soon as the season ended there was gleeful speculation that he would gone. And when he was traded there seemed to be much happiness floating around, even though we didn't get much for him. But the idea that the Sox freed up money was the center of the virtual smile-fest. Now, I have to add a note here...I was a bit sad to see Swisher traded. He did not have a good year, but he did bring an energy to the team and was an okay CFer. And yes, I suppose we can all play 10th inning general managers and wish the Swisher trade undone. But I'm not sure I would. He will not continue playing like he is now. He will have a better tear than last year (he'd have to, right?), but who's to say it would have happened with us? Finally, the best news that I received while perusing this thread was that Owens seems to be gone. Thank God. Even if he is a decent defensive CFer, he is an automatic out in the lineup. The Sox would be better off letting the pitcher hit and having the DH hit for Owens. Hey, wait a minute? Can they do that? Would that be an option? I know you can do it in HS and College but someone showed me a rule a couple years ago and the only guy that can be DH'd for is the pitcher.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Apr 30, 2009 -> 12:09 AM) no it's not...just constantly b****1ng about the lack of putting together the perfect roster is though. Joey the 6th grader knew there were problems with this line-up when Dewayne Wise was leading off. He also knew Jerry Owens was garbage. There were lots of options available this winter. The White Sox, despite chairman Reinsdorf's comment that the 2008 team was "not a fun team to watch" decided slashing payroll, despite raising ticket prices was the way to go. Sometimes you do get what you pay for. KW talks about some aggressive approach. With a division that includes KC, Minnesota and the economy damaged cities of Cleveland and Detroit, and season ticket sales ahead of last year's pace, it was time to put the pedal to the metal. No one is going to have a perfect roster, but to expect 4 or 5 miracles is a stretch. That said, this team could win 83 games and win the division and the WS, like STL in 2006. The ride just won't be as enjoyable. Thank God they aren't in the AL East. They would have no chance.

BTW if there is any question Joe Cowley is a fraud, here's what he said about Jerry Owens on March 8 ,2008: "If speed kills, Owens is a serial killer. He is a true leadoff hitter, with Kenny Lofton-like potential. Besides adding 10 pounds of muscle during the offseason, his confidence is sky-high. A tweaked groin has slowed him down a bit, but he should be fine."

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 10:01 PM) Have we quoted Ozzie yet about his conversation with Lillibridge? Jesus. “I just had a pretty good conversation with him," Guillen said before Wednesday's game. "If he does what he’s supposed to do, he will make $12 to $15 million in this game. But if he does what he’s doing right now, he might end up in Korea playing. And Ozzie leads him off.

Here's some numbers that may shock some. The beloved Rockin' Robin Ventura White Sox career BA .274. Jim Thome's career White Sox BA .267 and mere difference of .007. Robin gets 1 more hit every 143 ABs more than Thome in their White Sox years. Robin's OBP .365, Thome's .393. Robin has hit 56 more homers in a White Sox uniform than Thome in about 800 more games. Robin needed to make some adjustments apparently.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 06:25 PM) I'm not saying Thome can't hit the ball the other way, he sure can. But he never tries. So what if they pitch you inside. As a major league hitter, you should be able to inside out the ball. I'm not saying Thome should become like Pods of the first half of 05 where he did nothing but slap the ball the other way. All I'm saying is when there is no one on and 0-1 out, why not just inside out a swing and push a ball the other way? Try and start a little rally. This isn't 16 inch softball. Jim Thome doesn't have to get all of the ball to put runs on the board. Having him change his approach is idiotic. Hitting the ball to a place where the other team doesn't have anyone is simple in theory but the reality is hitting is much more difficult than that. He's a slugger. He must slug. Back in the early 90's there was a lot of talk that the White Sox should really harp on Frank Thomas to stop being so selective. He would take pitches an inch or two out of the zone. The theory was that a lot of those pitches were good pitches to hit and with Frank's ability his numbers would be even greater except in the walk category. The White Sox didn't want to fix something that wasn't broken. If Frank started swinging at pitches 2 inches out of the zone, then it could have become 5 inches then a foot. Hitting is hard enough when you go up there not worrying about anything. Changing Jim Thome so he may hit 20 more singles and it may cost you 10-15 homers. Its not worth it. He is what he is. He's a HOFer. I don't understand all the hate this guy gets on this board.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 06:35 PM) the thing that really blows is that it's a no activity type injury, you just have to be immobile and wait for it to heal. BA's timing had really come around - hope he can pick it back up. Worse, I hope he doesn't get stuck down in Charlotte during a rehab assignment. Since BA was the starter, if he goes on the DL, does he regain his starting job when he comes back from injury?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 06:27 PM) Interesting if they release Owens, but I am not sold on the story yet I don't think they would release Owens, they could always call him up in Sept. to pinch run, maybe they will just send him back to Charlotte. Pods is better than him. Not much, but better. What is curious is if BA has to be DL'd. Ozzie sounded like that probably won't happen but according to everyone who talked to BA, the guy was moving extremely gingerly. I supposed they would call up Nix and Pods, DL BA and send Owens back. Charlotte Knights fans are probably wearing grocery bags on their heads. That team is awful.

Freddy is still suffering or has new shoulder pain. Whether there is another issue there or its scar tissue he has to bust through, I have no idea. I'm sure if he's willing to work for peanuts and wants to give it another shot, the White Sox will give him a chance.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 06:11 PM) Oh, god, Really? Can't we just, you know, try Kroeger in Center? I loved Pods, but this doesn't seem like it can end well. Well, Kroeger is hitting .179 in Charlotte. He'd fit right in with the recent call-ups.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 04:25 PM) BA after 0-2 count in career 13 for 94=.138 At 0-2 count 4/46=0.087 What is the league average after an 0-2 count? Swisher hit .145 last year after being down 0-1 and .099 after being down 0-2. I remember that, but there aren't many who have .300 averages after 0-2. It would be baseball-dumb to think otherwise.

Betemit is up to .292. LOL. Its too bad he can't find a more regular role for him to hit RHP. He would be abusive.

This board is weird. Its gone from BA sucks to "don't be hurt BA" in 2 minutes.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) It probably doesn't include that AB, but he was 353 .353 .412 w/RISP this season. Don't let facts get in the way of someone calling someone else baseball dumb. Its priceless.

Why the f*** is Betemit in the line-up?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 03:43 PM) Well, someone should tell Betemit that Gavin is throwing a low, inside FB to Lopez that's likely to be pulled right down the line. As Stone said, he's 10 steps off the bag. So Stone Pony pretty much called it b4 it happened. If Betemit is out of position at 3B at USCF, it shouldn't be too hard for someone in the White Sox dugout to get his attention. Do coaches have a function in baseball or are they just there to take up space.