Dick Allen

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) I see. So we're still at blaming BA's failures offensively on infrequent at-bats? Well maybe if he didn't struggle to hit his weight he'd get more frequent at-bats? And it's no mystery to why he's so bad with the bat. He's got a horrific swing that really hasn't improved much if at all since 2006. Not many young players thrive when sitting for long stretches. Even the best hitters struggle if they haven't been playing for a while. His swing is long, but hardly as horrific as whats been posted on this board. I'm one who thinks some consistent playing time will do wonders for his swing. As awful as he was, in July and August of 2006 he hit .300. There's something there. It just may take a while for it to come out, but I'm with everyone else, if he gets consistent time and doesn't hit, then move on or at least know that he's a 4th or 5th OF, but finding out at the expense of Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise, when he's healthy, is a very small price to pay. Ironically, people like Wise when he's not leading off. What had he shown at BA's age? Its not like its some huge loss he is out. The only time in the majors he's had a .300 OBP is when he had 5 AB. If he was drafted by the White Sox, soxtalk would have bashed him to oblivion.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) We would have more innings to work with (maybe like 12-13) if Marquez didn't get bombed. The fact is, we are never gonna get a great sample sized of him if he can't get past two innings. Dude blows. That's what were arguing against here. If he makes 20 starts and goes 45 innings, the sample size will still be too small. At least you can call a spade a spade. Marquez is not very good. KW compared him to Garland a guy he signed to over $35 million worth of contract. It was an obvious overestimation of Jeff's abilities.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) No, BA gets bashed because he's flat sucked with the bat. That's all we've seen from him. That's all we know. You've come to the conclusion that Marquez sucks because of last year and 5 innings this year. See where the double standard comes in? And I hope you're right. I still consider myself a BA fan (although I've soured on him considerably since 2006). Its one thing for someone to suck in AAA, its another when they don't hit when they are a rookie with a defending champion and after that not hitting while playing extremely infrequently. There is no double standard.

This would be a bonus win. The Sox really shouldn't win this game. Bart has his work cut out for him. If he's throwing 88 again, I don't think he'll last long. Hopefully he'll add a few MPHs to his fastball tonight. I really think Bartolo and Contreras will be inconsistent for a while. No one will really know what to expect until they take the mound.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:00 PM) Wait if a guy is good, he can't have 5 bad innings? How does that make any sense? If a guy is bad they get lit up in AAA like Marquez did last year and so far this year. He's certainly not what KW said he was. He was supposed to be in the major league rotation. I still like the Swisher trade. Marquez's minor league career WHIP is 1.40. I don't think that transfers well to the American League, but you believe everything KW tells you so I'm sure you're of a different opinion, although KW loves Anderson and gave up decent prospects for MacDougal.

QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) I'm the one.... what? Your Mac analysis made it look like he only had 17 innings last year. I was only pointing out that if was really 65 innings when you take into account his minor league time. The minor league time is very relevant, because if was able to get the ball across the plate consistently, he would have been in Chicago rather than Charlotte. But he couldn't find home plate with a GPS which is THE reason he only had 17 innings in MLB last year. And the reason Marquez has 5 innings in 2 starts is because he was awful. He was awful last year in AAA as well. I went with MacDougals innings because I was saying the majority of his major league career, he's been pretty good. So the innings are relevant. I know he blows. I'm really not even defending him. I was using him as an example that you can determine a guy isn't very good after not so many innings, even if he has had major league success which MacDougal has had. The guy made an All Star team and it was deserved.I'm just saying you don't need 1000's of innings to determine a guy isn't very good, and Marquez obviously isn't as good as he was advertised. How many innings will Marquez have to pitch in order to determine he isn't very good?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) He hasn't been good except a few years, and hasn't been good since 2006 in the majors. The guy has been sent to the minors every single year of his career except one (not including this one, but I am sure it is coming soon). 2008 was so bad he got sent to Charlotte where he was not very good either. The fun stat there was 14 WP in 49.1 IP! Include in that 5.5 walks per nine innings, and pretty much a hit an inning, and he gets a WHIP of about 1.6. Looking over his whole minor league career, his numbers area actually worse in most areas than his major league career. If you call MacDougal pretty good, you should love Marquez, because most of his years are better than MM's. I never said MacDougal was pretty good. I said the majority of his major league career he's been pretty good. The point being when someone sucks, it doesn't always take a certain amount of innings to determine he sucks. Hence Marquez. If he was as good as KW said in the press conference when he was acquired, what has happened to him in 5 innings in AAA would never have happened.

QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:35 PM) Yeah, but he reason he only had 17 MLB innings is because he couldn't get the ball across the plate consistently in AAA either... where he had 48 more innings. In those 48 innings, his BB/9 was 5.5 and he threw 14 wild pitches. Holy Schnikes.... that makes Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn look like Greg Maddux. So we should all be glad Mac only had 17 innings in Chicago last year. Imagine if he had more... Think about it... we were only one bad Mac performance away from watching the Twins take the AL Central title instead of us. You are the one arguing sample size. Not me. Its a good thing Marquez isn't in the Sox rotation right now.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:10 PM) Fine. But when somebody bashes Brian Anderson make sure you recognize they're bashing him because he's completely sucked (except defensively) his entire ML career. Brian Anderson gets bashed if he makes an out his first AB and actually gets close to having a game blamed on him when the team lost 9-0 and he whiffed with guys on second and third with one out in the fifth inning. Never mind Carlos Quentin struck out with a guy on 3rd and one out in the first. The bashing is beyond ridiculous. Its worse than the Uribe bashing. BA will shut everyone up however in due time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) The majority, really? It looks to me like 2003 was passible (he still had a WHIP of 1.5, K/BB of 1.88, and 4.5 BB/9 which are not good peripherals by any stretch), 2005 was solid, and 2006 was good for the half of the year he pitched. 2007 was just horrible, and 2008 got him sent to Charlotte. 2004 was bad and he was injured, and his cup of coffees in 2001 and 2 looked pretty scary as well. That doesn't really look like pretty good over a majority of his career to me, especially when you look at his career numbers. It would be a mediocre career at best. 2008 was how many innings? 2007 he sucked. 2006 he was good. 2005 good. 2003 was great the first half, made the All Star team and had 24 saves at the break, was brutal and injured the second half. 2007 he pitched 42 innings. 2004 he pitched 11 innings. 2006 he pitched 29 innings. 2008 he pitched 17 innings. All in all I would say majority is correct, wouldn't you? In the years he mentioned he was good or passable its been far more than half his career innings. You can't be saying KW made a big mistake trading for him and giving him an extension can you?

QUOTE (almagest @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:19 PM) Except MacDougal has a history of sucking. Marquez has last year, and a whopping 5.1 IP this year. You're cherry picking again. Really? MacDougal has had success in the major leagues. In fact, quite a bit. The majority of his career, he's been pretty good.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) Marquez could very well turn out to be a dud. But I agree. To base anything off of 5 innings or so is ridiculous. I'm sure you're open to the possibility of a Mike MacDougal turnaround. He's got a 3.56 WHIP in his first 2 starts. He was horrid last season. Marquez blows.

New York is the best experience. Wearing a Sox hat to Yankee Stadium was a lot of fun. The comments are hysterical. Of course I looked into going this year but tickets behind the dugout were $900 a piece so why bother now? Boston is great too. You can stay in the Back Bay and walk to Fenway with a ton to do. I actually took a duck tour and it was interesting. Baltimore is fun. Minneapolis, cheap and fun, and although the Metrodome is a dump, its really not that bad to watch a game in. Milwaukee, Cincinatti are fun. Detroit is great for watching the game, everything else, unless you're 25 and single and want to stay in Windsor, is brutal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) Cal Ripken's offensive numbers were more than enough to put him into the Hall of Fame. He would have been a first ballot guy regardless because he was the first huge offensive SS in baseball. The guy hit .276 with 413 homers and 1695 RBIs in his career. He won 2 MVPs and ROY, not to mention all of his GGs and All Star games. He also won a World Championship. He had the complete HOF resume without the games streak. The games streak was awesome, but there are a lot of people who thought his numbers, which I agree are first ballot HOF numbers without the streak, would have been even better if he took an occassional day off.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 09:50 PM) He was supposedly hurt and it looks like he pitched just over half a season. What's the excuse this season? He was pretty awful last year, and was compared to Jon Garland. In fact, KW said they could have signed Garland, but had the same thing in Marquez. Not that Garland is stellar, in fact, maybe he is Garland considering Garland's start, but I'm assuming he meant the inning eater Garland has been his entire career, and as you said he didn't even pitch a full season last year. He pompously told everyone how Marquez's sinker would flourish at USCF. Maybe it would if they let him pitch in that NU vs. ND game last night. At the same age, Garland had more major league innings than Marquez has innings.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 09:48 PM) He made one bad pitch, and that was hit hard by Bartlett. He needs to trust his hammer more with 2 strikes, as that needs to be his money maker. The bad hop shows why strikeouts are nice in close games. It must have been adrenaline on opening day because he was hitting 96 consistently. He hasn't looked all that sharp since.

Its amazing how many people ignored Marquez's numbers last year and bought KW's BS about him. When he pitched well the first week of March I think some were even predicting double figure wins. Although he hasn't been sharp, thank God Contreras is back and thank God Bartolo Colon signed with the Sox. The way Richard has been throwing his last couple of outings and the way Marquez has been lit up, the White Sox could just as well forfeit when their turns came up if they were the 4th and 5th starters.

QUOTE (Tmar @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 07:42 PM) Haha, Maddon was just arguing the overturned shoe polish ball play If JD has a black bat, I don't know how they can tell its shoe polish or black bat paint. I've caught a few balls off black bats and they always have black marks on them. JD's spikes don't even look like they can be polished.

Marquez getting lit up again, but has his ERA down to 21.00

QUOTE (BearSox @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 06:04 PM) I remember last year Ramirez broke out at Tampa Bay... lets hope that's the case again this year. If he has a big series in TB this year, I'm going to think he just hasn't figured out how to play when its cold yet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) The Hudson deal COULD be worth as MUCH as $8 million, with $3.6 million guaranteed. However, Hudson is a big character guy and would have been a perfect fit in our clubhouse, IMO. I'm not going to get into whether or not Getz was/is ready, or Beckham for that matter, but Hudson at 2B or in CF would have been a huge upgrade over what we have for this particular season. He's very similar in terms of demeanor and personality to Dye...one of those guys (unlike Elijah Dukes) that you NEVER hear anything bad about. The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation was founded by Orlando Hudson, a 7 year MLB veteran, All Star and 3 times Gold Glove Recipient. The 501c3 non-profit foundation is headquartered in Darlington, SC, and takes pride in its continued commitment to provide resources and a support system for youth coping with Autism. Orlando Hudson is committed to bringing autism awareness to the African-American community. An active volunteer for organizations which promote autism research advancement, Hudson created the C.A.T.C.H. (Curing Autism through Change and Hope) Foundation, to provide resources and a support system for youth coping with autism. The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation has served youth with Autism through their annual Autism Walk; Strike Out! Bowling Fundraiser; Homerun Holiday Christmas Gifting Ceremony and providing local organizations and schools with financial assistance for youth coping with Autism. The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation’s 2009 goals include expanding their menu of services as well as presenting grant funding to deserving Autism oriented programs. In addition, the foundation has plans to do a National tour to generate funds and more awareness of the disorder. [/i] And while he's not an ideal leadoff hitter, he's at least as good as Orlando Cabrera and before last season started if OC told KW he would sign a 1 year extension for $8 million, that would have been a done deal.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Getz won the leadoff job but got hurt, in case we all forgot. Give that kid a month and I think we'll find he's plenty good enough in that role. Certainly better than any of the CF's we have. Any CF we play does NOT have to be a leadoff hitter. Getz is leading off tonight. He didn't "win" the leadoff job. He was put there after the Wise experiment was turning ugly both on the field and in the stands. The problem with the CF has to be the leadoff guy was that's how the White Sox were looking at it. Apparently, when Getz is out, the 2B has to be the lead off hitter now. Lillibridge is less qualified than Wise.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) Only one team can sign a player, does that mean the other 31 teams have organizational problems too? Everyone has a price in their head that they won't go over (except the Yankees), sooooo...you and all the others can try to figure out the organizational problems for 95% of the league. The White Sox have used Dewayne Wise and Brent Lillibridge in the leadoff hole in 2009. Look at their histories and ask yourself what qualifies them to leadoff in the major leagues? White Sox leadoff hitters are 2 for 30 on the season. The White Sox also slashed payroll by the second biggest amount in baseball despite playing 3 extra home games last season, having season ticket sales increase and raising ticket, parking and concession prices. Only SD slashed more, and that's because of a messy divorce. The team also has Contreras $10 million, Dye $10 million net, Thome $13 million and Dotel $6.5 million comingoff the books after this season. Thats almost $40 million. Maybe you think $5-6 million guaranteed for Orlando Hudson is way out of line, but its quite obvious KW took too much stock in Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise, and the White Sox are going young and cheap. The market for players who can help out was very suppressed this offseason. Cruz was ignored. Might not need him, but if Dotel and Linebrink don't hold up, he might have made sense, and theres a lot better chance he can help the White Sox win than the 20th pick in the draft in June. Crisp was a definite upgrade, but apparently the White Sox had no interest. There were no bidding wars for these players. If, and if you read it carefully, the White Sox don't have the parts to acquire a Coco Crisp, I said that wasn't necessarily true, AND they can't spend the money at last offseason's bargain basement prices to bring in help, then they have big time organizational problems. No team is perfect, and the White Sox wouldn't be perfect if they picked up these 3, but they would be a lot better. Just thank your lucky stars the Sox are in the Central division.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) Couple notes in reply. First...for Juan Cruz, the Royals had to give up their 2nd round pick. We'd have had to give up our first round pick. It's like giving up #50 versus giving up #20. Juan Cruz simply wasn't worth that pick even if he was signing for the League Minimum. Second, in terms of Coco Crisp, the Royals gave up a 27 year old, pre-arbitration reliever who had an ERA under 3.00 last year to get him. The Sox simply have no one who fits that bill. Jenks was our only pre-arb reliever last year who had an ERA under 3.00. Poreda might have worked but he's never pitched in the big leagues, and I'm not sure I'd have done Poreda for Crisp. Orlando Hudson...also costs our first round pick, may not have wanted to play CF, might have been willing to do that deal though even with the draft pick. Baldelli...decent option except he can't play more than 1/2 games even if he's 100% healthy. Bobby Abreu is not a CF. Pretending these facts don't exist is not an option. Note - not once did I say we couldn't afford any of these guys. That may have played a part in it, but it's not the only reason. Juan Cruz, I'd rather sign him and give up the first round pick which will save you more than $1 million right there. As far as Crisp, just because the Royals traded a reliever for Crisp doesn't mean they wouldn't have gone for something else. The White Sox overestimated Wise and Owens. Orlando Hudson was going to where the money was. If the White Sox offered him a higher guarantee than LA with the same incentives, I don't think there's any question he would be willing to play CF. In fact, Steve Stone said more than a couple teams were looking at Hudson as a CF. We will never know the exact circumstances, but if the White Sox organization doesn't have the pieces to pick up players that will help them fill holes and doesn't have the money to sign players who can help them fill holes when they are signing for pennies on the dollar, then there is an organizational problem that needs to be fixed.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 11:58 AM) JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation. KW: I'm not either. The price for a CF is crazy. I take personal responsibility. JR: What about Aaron? Can we pry him away from the Giants? KW: I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget. JR: There is too much talent on this team to not try to win it again. I'm not getting any younger. Get it done Kenny. I'll get the money. KW: I'll call San Fran right now. It probably would be more like: JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation. KW: I'm not either. The price for a CF is crazy. I can't spend $1 if all I have is $.50. JR: What about Aaron? Can we pry him away from the Giants? KW: I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget. JR: That's right. What was I thinking? Wise is hurt, Brian has struggled, Jerry Owens should be selling insurance, there has to be someone, anyone we can sign for next to nothing. KW: I'll call Scott Podsednik right now. Our fans still dream about 2005. They won't realize that he's almost as bad as the others. JR: Great idea. As long as I run the show, you will be taken care of.