Dick Allen

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 11:09 PM) That was absolutely a move made on politics. KW was being a gentleman and sent over a thank you gift for the Freddy Garcia deal. I don't see it as anything other than that. Of course he could have gotten more of Iguchi, but Ethical or not, I have absolutely no doubt that's what it was. I don't buy that. If he could have got more for Iguchi, I really think he would have gone for another deal. He didn't send anything Toronto's way when Sirotka never pitched again. The Sox were out of it. He had to see if Richar could play. He saved some money shipping Iguchi elsewhere. Talk about a guy who faded fast, I don't think Richar is even on the Reds 40.

I don't think the upper management of the Knights can possibly be happy with the White Sox right now. I think this was fodder for fodder hoping to make the AAA a little more competitive.

Ramirez was at the same place after a similar amount of AB last season, although those AB were scattered and these are regular. June, July, August last season he hit over .330. I think its just a slow start, but its really not out of the realm of possibility that he hits .258 with a .285 OBP this year. He hit only .211 last September but hit with power. We will see. I do know he's not a .147 hitter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 07:09 PM) DJ just said Bartolo got it up to 93. He was throwing 95 last year. I think he'll get it back up there eventually as long as all his parts stay intact.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 03:15 PM) So if you weren't saying something was a small sample size, why mention that MM only pitched 17 innings in 2008? What point were you trying to make there? Calling Kenny arrogant repeatedly is your way of showing him love I take it, explain that one to me as well. I disagree plenty. You just choose to ignore it because it makes an easy arguement instead of the usual odd circular logic. Making it personal is much easier. For example... I hated the McCarty/Danks trade when it was made. I hated calling up Jenks when it happened. I wish we would have traded Brian Anderson years ago. I didn't like Josh Fields, I would have traded him after 06. I didn't like the back up catcher situation coming into this year... I could keep going if you like... Show one of your posts disagreeing with a KW move at the time it was made. I mentioned 17 innings because when he was good he pitched 70 innings. 70 out of 87 is a majority. The whole argument started because it was said it was crazy to say Marquez sucks after 5 innings. I mentioned MacDougal because there has been plenty of criticism and deservedly so for his 4 innings of work this season. 17 last, 11 another year you said he was bad. If he's bad for 28 innings but good for 70, wouldn't he be good the majority of his career? When is the sample size too small? I'm the one not being selective here. KW is arrogant, but I've complimented him plenty. I still love the Swisher trade. I loved he got rid of Vazquez without having to eat any money, and got 1 really nice prospect for him. But his little "we do things differently than others, no one understands us, thats OK with us" act is fake modesty, I find it hard anyone doesn't see it.

QUOTE (FedEx227 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:59 PM) The Swisher/Marquez trade is definitely not looking very good right now. Obviously, we wanted nothing to do with Swisher but you wonder if this buying high selling REAL low was a good idea. You could have just kept him for another year if anything. Swisher will have some awful stretches. He always does. By the end of the year, Swisher will probably have better numbers than Betimet, but you probably wouldn't want his contract if you actually have a budget.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) I love that you bash me for agreeing with everything Kenny Williams does while I slam Mike MacDougal. Judging by the way you hate on Kenny, I think there is a little bit of deflection going on. I think it is funny that a guy who gets so mad about the arrogance of Williams is convinced he knows better than him. There is a nice irony there. Marquez hasn't been very good, there is no arguement there. But to say a guy can't pitch because of five innings is just silly, especially when a few posts ago you were on someone for using 17 innings as too small of a sample size. Now that is some circular logic! Once again I never used anything as "too small a sample size". I used the innings because I was showing majority which I claimed MacDougal has been pretty good the majority of his career, and you said no.I don't hate on Kenny, I disagree with several of his projections. You never disagree. Using MacDougal sucks is probably your only example, and I'm sure if you asked KW right now he would tell you MacDougal sucks. I'm sure you still think Marquez is Jon Garland II, just like KW said. Maybe they should try to buy out some of his arb years while he's struggling at AAA. He'd probably jump at it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) I see. So we're still at blaming BA's failures offensively on infrequent at-bats? Well maybe if he didn't struggle to hit his weight he'd get more frequent at-bats? And it's no mystery to why he's so bad with the bat. He's got a horrific swing that really hasn't improved much if at all since 2006. Not many young players thrive when sitting for long stretches. Even the best hitters struggle if they haven't been playing for a while. His swing is long, but hardly as horrific as whats been posted on this board. I'm one who thinks some consistent playing time will do wonders for his swing. As awful as he was, in July and August of 2006 he hit .300. There's something there. It just may take a while for it to come out, but I'm with everyone else, if he gets consistent time and doesn't hit, then move on or at least know that he's a 4th or 5th OF, but finding out at the expense of Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise, when he's healthy, is a very small price to pay. Ironically, people like Wise when he's not leading off. What had he shown at BA's age? Its not like its some huge loss he is out. The only time in the majors he's had a .300 OBP is when he had 5 AB. If he was drafted by the White Sox, soxtalk would have bashed him to oblivion.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) We would have more innings to work with (maybe like 12-13) if Marquez didn't get bombed. The fact is, we are never gonna get a great sample sized of him if he can't get past two innings. Dude blows. That's what were arguing against here. If he makes 20 starts and goes 45 innings, the sample size will still be too small. At least you can call a spade a spade. Marquez is not very good. KW compared him to Garland a guy he signed to over $35 million worth of contract. It was an obvious overestimation of Jeff's abilities.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) No, BA gets bashed because he's flat sucked with the bat. That's all we've seen from him. That's all we know. You've come to the conclusion that Marquez sucks because of last year and 5 innings this year. See where the double standard comes in? And I hope you're right. I still consider myself a BA fan (although I've soured on him considerably since 2006). Its one thing for someone to suck in AAA, its another when they don't hit when they are a rookie with a defending champion and after that not hitting while playing extremely infrequently. There is no double standard.

This would be a bonus win. The Sox really shouldn't win this game. Bart has his work cut out for him. If he's throwing 88 again, I don't think he'll last long. Hopefully he'll add a few MPHs to his fastball tonight. I really think Bartolo and Contreras will be inconsistent for a while. No one will really know what to expect until they take the mound.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:00 PM) Wait if a guy is good, he can't have 5 bad innings? How does that make any sense? If a guy is bad they get lit up in AAA like Marquez did last year and so far this year. He's certainly not what KW said he was. He was supposed to be in the major league rotation. I still like the Swisher trade. Marquez's minor league career WHIP is 1.40. I don't think that transfers well to the American League, but you believe everything KW tells you so I'm sure you're of a different opinion, although KW loves Anderson and gave up decent prospects for MacDougal.

QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) I'm the one.... what? Your Mac analysis made it look like he only had 17 innings last year. I was only pointing out that if was really 65 innings when you take into account his minor league time. The minor league time is very relevant, because if was able to get the ball across the plate consistently, he would have been in Chicago rather than Charlotte. But he couldn't find home plate with a GPS which is THE reason he only had 17 innings in MLB last year. And the reason Marquez has 5 innings in 2 starts is because he was awful. He was awful last year in AAA as well. I went with MacDougals innings because I was saying the majority of his major league career, he's been pretty good. So the innings are relevant. I know he blows. I'm really not even defending him. I was using him as an example that you can determine a guy isn't very good after not so many innings, even if he has had major league success which MacDougal has had. The guy made an All Star team and it was deserved.I'm just saying you don't need 1000's of innings to determine a guy isn't very good, and Marquez obviously isn't as good as he was advertised. How many innings will Marquez have to pitch in order to determine he isn't very good?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) He hasn't been good except a few years, and hasn't been good since 2006 in the majors. The guy has been sent to the minors every single year of his career except one (not including this one, but I am sure it is coming soon). 2008 was so bad he got sent to Charlotte where he was not very good either. The fun stat there was 14 WP in 49.1 IP! Include in that 5.5 walks per nine innings, and pretty much a hit an inning, and he gets a WHIP of about 1.6. Looking over his whole minor league career, his numbers area actually worse in most areas than his major league career. If you call MacDougal pretty good, you should love Marquez, because most of his years are better than MM's. I never said MacDougal was pretty good. I said the majority of his major league career he's been pretty good. The point being when someone sucks, it doesn't always take a certain amount of innings to determine he sucks. Hence Marquez. If he was as good as KW said in the press conference when he was acquired, what has happened to him in 5 innings in AAA would never have happened.

QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:35 PM) Yeah, but he reason he only had 17 MLB innings is because he couldn't get the ball across the plate consistently in AAA either... where he had 48 more innings. In those 48 innings, his BB/9 was 5.5 and he threw 14 wild pitches. Holy Schnikes.... that makes Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn look like Greg Maddux. So we should all be glad Mac only had 17 innings in Chicago last year. Imagine if he had more... Think about it... we were only one bad Mac performance away from watching the Twins take the AL Central title instead of us. You are the one arguing sample size. Not me. Its a good thing Marquez isn't in the Sox rotation right now.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:10 PM) Fine. But when somebody bashes Brian Anderson make sure you recognize they're bashing him because he's completely sucked (except defensively) his entire ML career. Brian Anderson gets bashed if he makes an out his first AB and actually gets close to having a game blamed on him when the team lost 9-0 and he whiffed with guys on second and third with one out in the fifth inning. Never mind Carlos Quentin struck out with a guy on 3rd and one out in the first. The bashing is beyond ridiculous. Its worse than the Uribe bashing. BA will shut everyone up however in due time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) The majority, really? It looks to me like 2003 was passible (he still had a WHIP of 1.5, K/BB of 1.88, and 4.5 BB/9 which are not good peripherals by any stretch), 2005 was solid, and 2006 was good for the half of the year he pitched. 2007 was just horrible, and 2008 got him sent to Charlotte. 2004 was bad and he was injured, and his cup of coffees in 2001 and 2 looked pretty scary as well. That doesn't really look like pretty good over a majority of his career to me, especially when you look at his career numbers. It would be a mediocre career at best. 2008 was how many innings? 2007 he sucked. 2006 he was good. 2005 good. 2003 was great the first half, made the All Star team and had 24 saves at the break, was brutal and injured the second half. 2007 he pitched 42 innings. 2004 he pitched 11 innings. 2006 he pitched 29 innings. 2008 he pitched 17 innings. All in all I would say majority is correct, wouldn't you? In the years he mentioned he was good or passable its been far more than half his career innings. You can't be saying KW made a big mistake trading for him and giving him an extension can you?

QUOTE (almagest @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:19 PM) Except MacDougal has a history of sucking. Marquez has last year, and a whopping 5.1 IP this year. You're cherry picking again. Really? MacDougal has had success in the major leagues. In fact, quite a bit. The majority of his career, he's been pretty good.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) Marquez could very well turn out to be a dud. But I agree. To base anything off of 5 innings or so is ridiculous. I'm sure you're open to the possibility of a Mike MacDougal turnaround. He's got a 3.56 WHIP in his first 2 starts. He was horrid last season. Marquez blows.

New York is the best experience. Wearing a Sox hat to Yankee Stadium was a lot of fun. The comments are hysterical. Of course I looked into going this year but tickets behind the dugout were $900 a piece so why bother now? Boston is great too. You can stay in the Back Bay and walk to Fenway with a ton to do. I actually took a duck tour and it was interesting. Baltimore is fun. Minneapolis, cheap and fun, and although the Metrodome is a dump, its really not that bad to watch a game in. Milwaukee, Cincinatti are fun. Detroit is great for watching the game, everything else, unless you're 25 and single and want to stay in Windsor, is brutal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) Cal Ripken's offensive numbers were more than enough to put him into the Hall of Fame. He would have been a first ballot guy regardless because he was the first huge offensive SS in baseball. The guy hit .276 with 413 homers and 1695 RBIs in his career. He won 2 MVPs and ROY, not to mention all of his GGs and All Star games. He also won a World Championship. He had the complete HOF resume without the games streak. The games streak was awesome, but there are a lot of people who thought his numbers, which I agree are first ballot HOF numbers without the streak, would have been even better if he took an occassional day off.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 09:50 PM) He was supposedly hurt and it looks like he pitched just over half a season. What's the excuse this season? He was pretty awful last year, and was compared to Jon Garland. In fact, KW said they could have signed Garland, but had the same thing in Marquez. Not that Garland is stellar, in fact, maybe he is Garland considering Garland's start, but I'm assuming he meant the inning eater Garland has been his entire career, and as you said he didn't even pitch a full season last year. He pompously told everyone how Marquez's sinker would flourish at USCF. Maybe it would if they let him pitch in that NU vs. ND game last night. At the same age, Garland had more major league innings than Marquez has innings.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 09:48 PM) He made one bad pitch, and that was hit hard by Bartlett. He needs to trust his hammer more with 2 strikes, as that needs to be his money maker. The bad hop shows why strikeouts are nice in close games. It must have been adrenaline on opening day because he was hitting 96 consistently. He hasn't looked all that sharp since.

Its amazing how many people ignored Marquez's numbers last year and bought KW's BS about him. When he pitched well the first week of March I think some were even predicting double figure wins. Although he hasn't been sharp, thank God Contreras is back and thank God Bartolo Colon signed with the Sox. The way Richard has been throwing his last couple of outings and the way Marquez has been lit up, the White Sox could just as well forfeit when their turns came up if they were the 4th and 5th starters.

QUOTE (Tmar @ Apr 16, 2009 -> 07:42 PM) Haha, Maddon was just arguing the overturned shoe polish ball play If JD has a black bat, I don't know how they can tell its shoe polish or black bat paint. I've caught a few balls off black bats and they always have black marks on them. JD's spikes don't even look like they can be polished.