Dick Allen

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade. They have saved some cash. Kind of like how the Sox won the trade with Philly even if Floyd is garbage and Gio never sees Chicago. Some people here defend KW by his "winning" trades. I don't care about winning trades. Winning games is more important.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade. They have saved some cash. Kind of like how the Sox won the trade with Philly even if Floyd is garbage and Gio never sees Chicago.

I didn't see a thread on this, but Roland is back with the D-Backs. I don't know exactly what he did with the White Sox, if anything really, and know he does live in AZ, so I was wondering if he took the job because of that, or maybe there was something else going on. I imagine he knows Schaffer pretty well and wonder if he became dissillusioned by his termination.

Why don't they just bring the whole team back? They seem to be pretty good. KW should be allowed to bring Pods back, provided that he's willing to resign the first time Pods gets hurt. How many times does a guy have to get hurt before you realize that is something that most likely will continue?

QUOTE(max power @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) I dunno about cotts, but the other two I agree with a great degree of certainty. Either KW or Ozzie or both hated McCarthy and Garcia had to go because of $, and an expiring contract. I'm sure the velocity drop concerned him as well

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) Jon Garland, 2000: 15 games, 69.2 IP, 6.46 ERA, 4-8 record, 1.75 WHIP. Greg Maddux was pretty awful in 1987 when he was 21, and I don't think anyone would compare Floyd's career to his. Floyd is a power pitcher, Garland is not. Garland was 20 when he put up the above numbers. Floyd is 24 and getting worse. When he came up when he was 21 he did alright. His first game he gave up 1 run in 7 innings. His given up 92 runs his last 90 innings. Even the 2007 version of Jose Contreras hasn't been that bad.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) Damaso Marte was here for what, 1 year before Ozzie hit town? 2 pretty dominating seasons. He struggled when Ozzie came it, but if we base it on this year's numbers with the Sox bullpen, he still was pretty good.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) I don't want to cast myself as a Williams defender...but I guess I'll do it. That farm system ranking turned out to be largely illusory, didn't it? Who panned out from the system that existed in 2000? Crede, Wells, Buehrle, and Garland had graduated to the bigs in 2000 - 2001 hadn't they? Borchard and all the high profile 1999 and 2000 pitchers basically flamed out. In retrospect, it's safe to say it wasn't the best system in baseball. And the major league staff shredded their arms in 2000. I don't think he came into as cushy a situation you paint it. Williams work at the major league level improved significantly. I think he built decent clubs from 2003 through 2006. He rarely made any bad acquisitions in those years. The farm system was definitely overrated. The ironic thing was with Kenny's previous job, that false ranking probably helped him get his current position. He has such a reputation for being this maverick. It seems after the Thome trade, he's really gone conservative. I think one problem is he may be a little too attached to some of the guys that contributed to a WS. He did deal Rowand, but that was Jim Thome he was getting back.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) That's an excellent comparison. We've all heard how "mentally fragile" Gavin Floyd can be on the mound. Ozzie needs to get into that head of his to turn that thought process around because he certainly has the arm to succeed. Its funny we didn't hear how mentally fragile Damaso Marte was until Ozzie hit town. I will go to my grave thinking Ozzie gets way too much credit for Garland's turnaround. Garland was basically the same pitcher even a little worse his first year with Ozzie. And he's averaged a little less than 1 more inning per start since Ozzie took over. He cut his walk rate down. If Ozzie is the reason for that, what's the deal with the current bullpen. I think managers and coaches get way too much blame and credit. Just think, if Ozzie bailed at the end of last season, and a new guy was brought it, and the White Sox had the same record as they do now, we would be constantly told how that was proof positive how great and important Ozzie was, that the disaster that this current team is would never occur under Ozzie's watch.

Didn't Contreras win his first 9 or so decisions after signing the extension? Every extension signed is a gamble. His is/was because of his age. Who is to say he won't make a semi comeback next year? El Duque looked done and he's been competent. Obviously he is awful right now, and really hasn't been the same since the back issue last year. I would trade him, but not if you have to pick up a nice chunk of his contract. Maybe shut him down early this season and try to prepare him for 2008. The problem with the extension was the Sox were at a disadvantage because Contreras was the stud the second half of 2005 and in the playoffs. He was as good as anybody and the Sox really had little leverage. Sometimes it is good to play things out.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 07:48 PM) Keep in mind that the team that Larry Himes built, from the ground-up (your way), didn't win a single playoff series. Throwing away solid major-league talent like Paulie for a package of prospects (even really, really good prospects) doesn't guarantee anything. That depends on what you define as "success." Detroit has a pennant and 20+ years of misery prior to that. The 21st century Indians teams have been competitive at times, but have one whole playoff appearance and no playoff series wins. And, of course, they haven't won a championship in about 60 years. The Twins have been competitive, but haven't won anything of significance since the early '90s. Sorry, but I wouldn't want to trade places with any of those close-but-not-quite organizations. KW very well may not be the right guy for the Sox from here on out. He's obviously not the top GM in the league. That said, I don't hear many Braves fans saying, "Man, I'm sure glad that we have John Schuerholz, instead of that Kenny Williams idiot." Winning the division and crapping out in the playoffs year after year gets old quickly. Oh, really? Tell me how the last-place Royals are going to step up and be contenders in the near future. Himes basically built the foundation for a team that was pretty good in the early 90s. He also traded away a popular veteran for a package that helped bump the Sox to an elite team when he traded Baines for Fletcher, Alvarez and Sosa. They were better off for 4 or 5 years with that trade than if he would have left Harold as the DH. Alvarez alone helped the Sox in 1993 and 1994, and dealing him helped them win a division in 2000 with Foulke and Howry, and had an effect on the championship team as Foulke netted Cotts. Harold even came back, twice. If winning the division 13 or 14 years in a row and winning only 1 world series gets old quickly, what about winning 1 WS and 1 divison in 7 years, and have a team with a $100 million + payroll battle it out with KC and TB for the worst record in the league? JS baseball resume is far more impressive than KW's.

KW should trade Bukvich if anyone is desperate enough to give up any value. He has been pretty good lately, but history shows its more than likely short-lived.

I just am really worried about counting on former football players being stars. Kirk Gibson was a good player, Bo Jackson was too, but he was a total athletic freak. The White Sox had Borchard who I really liked, is a good guy and a hard worker and just can't make it happen, and KW. KW was the ex football player who struggled early, but hit .330 or so in Birmingham and came to the Sox where he hit .281 in almost 400 ABs his rookie year. I remember hearing what a star he was going to be and why wouldn't you think so, he could hit , run, he was strong. He hit .186 the rest of his career. Fields is more patient, and has more power than KW. He's also better with the glove at 3rd. The strikeouts really concern me. I wouldn't dump Crede just yet. If anything, I would let Fields see what he could do at second base.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 02:04 PM) Colon has seemingly been on the DL his whole Angel career. I am sure glad he signed there. He did win the CY Young, but he's always had issues. He always seemed to be trying to stretch out a problem with his arm even when he was on the White Sox. I've always liked him. I hope the elbow problem isn't serious though. I always thought if he was available for cheap, KW might go after him again, but I think with this latest issue, he would and should pass.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) Is Contreras "the answer"? We get it, you're sure he's terrible. I don't have much hope for him, I never have. But consider that he's sucked, not just in the majors, but even in the minors for the last few years. He SEEMS to have worked that out over the last couple months. Maybe (maybe!!!) that means that he's worked through his problems and is ready to go. It could also mean he's just a AAAA pitcher, or it could have been a fluke (the most likely possibility imvho). I think the first possibility is very unlikely, but I'm not willing to rule it out. And what's the harm? A couple extra losses in a blown season? Extending some bullpen arms who'll be released, anyway? Let's really see what we have and go from there. He was dominant in the minors up until he hit the majors. His first major league start he went 7 innings and only allowed 1 run. It was on the board last night. Maybe I am a little overboard with him, but I actually paid money to sit through his 2 starts this season, and I feel violated. Like I said, throw him out there again, but if the trend continues a couple more times, you have to pull the plug. It will be doing no one any good to keep it going. Then see where he's at in the spring and see if he can make the team's bullpen.

It would be ridiculous to keep sending him out there if he continued to pitch like he has in his 2 starts. If they want to give him a couple more starts, fine, but if there's no improvement, blowing out your bullpen and basically forfeiting games is not the answer. I don't know what good getting his brains beat in will do him anyway. In 26 games, 21 starts the OPS against him is .940. Frank Thomas has had an OPS that high in only 3 of the past 10 years. Paul Konerko has never had an OPS that high. This year its over 1.200.

I really don't understand where people are coming from saying this guy needs a chance. How many guys give up 92 runs in 90 innings and still get any chance whatsoever? He was batting practice last night, except for a couple of strikeouts. Sean Casey almost took him deep. The observation about him pitching pretty well then getting hammered on one pitch if the batters are patient is a good one. Its probably why he does well in the minors because the hitters there aren't as patient. Learning not to groove one isn't exactly the smallest task. Its what every pitcher, even Johann Santana struggle with every time they pitch.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 08:37 AM) they are not trading Konerko. They think highly enough of him, that they ask his opinions on personnel moves. Exactly. Who would be co-GM? It does make some sense to trade him though, if the package is huge. Free up money, get younger and faster, and there probably is question as to what Paulie is going to be in a couple of seasons.It would make even more sense if you could count on Thome to play 1B, which you can't.

QUOTE(Linnwood @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 11:49 PM) Wow, that is bad. If the guy was a 5th round draft pick, he' be selling cars or playing with Carl Everett right now.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 11:44 PM) What he needs is a curveball (he didn't have one tonight), and an extra 2 MPH on his 2-seamer, or a changeup that is actually significantly slower than his fastball and not telegraphed to the hitter by him slowing down his delivery. I guess what I'm saying is that there are plenty of reasons you can find for Floyd pitching like crap and none of them have anything to do with him being testicularly challenged. When players fail, it's usually because they lack talent. He has talent. The strikeouts will show you that. The thing is when something goes wrong he sighs, and gets the deer in the headlights look. You're right about his delivery. We were calling pitches based on it tonight.

It was a great comeback. The most fun I've had at the park in a while. Things went from very grim to jubulation.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 11:25 PM) When has Floyd ever been good in the majors? Um, seriously... anyone? Stats or something? I've been wondering why we obtained him since the day we did. From what I've seen, he's shown very little, and he hasn't impressed me at all. In his last 90 2/3 innings in the major leagues, he has allowed 24 homers and 92 runs. He blows. Keep him in Charlotte. He won't hurt the big league team, and he's made himself into quite the AAA pitcher.

They hit rockets off him all night. The guy needs to grow a pair if you ask me. Having him as a fifth starter would probably lead to surgery for half the bullpen. He is no better than Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, the 5th starters of that ilk. On the bright side, he did pitch 1 inning tonight were he didn't allow a run.

If Crede is over his back issues, he's a .280 hitter with 30 home run power and close to gold glove leather. It would be foolish to non tender him. Check out Crede's numbers in 2002 and check out Fields' numbers now. Crede blows him away at that point, and Crede was so crucified on this board later on it wasn't even funny. Fields does appear to be better than I thought, but I don't know if he's a regular thirdbaseman on a championship calibur team yet. He fans an awful lot, and defensively is about average I would say. We'll see how he does the rest of the season.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) The reason the team lost last night, was the failure of hitters to plate runners in scoring position. It had nothing to do with the table setters getting on. There were plenty of guys on, just not a lot of execution of hitting with RISP. Both teams had opportunities with men on, the tigers hit with men on, we didnt. End of story. The reason the Sox lost last night was because Detroit scored 9 runs. It has nothing to do with Greg Walker. If Texas hitting coach was working for the Sox last night, chances are they wouldn't have scored the 10 runs required to win either.To expect an offense to score 10 is silly. 6 is plenty enough to win most of the time, except when you have one of the worst bullpens ever.