Dick Allen

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:21 PM) In 2002, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 56th overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. In 2003, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 8th overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. In 2004, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 23rd overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. In 2005, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 35th overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. Now, why would such a bad pitcher get such high rankings by such a respected and all around well-known baseball site known for its ability to scout prospects? It's not a question of talent, it is a question of utilizing that talent. I see no harm in this move. I highly doubt he can do any worse then Contreras, and with the season already over, there is no harm if he goes out there for 4-5 starts and s***s his pants. After those 4-5 starts, if shows he has no balls and is afraid to attack the hitters and gets shelled, then give someone else a chance. For right now, we basically have nothing to lose, but something to gain. Its 2007 what's he ranked now? In October 2005 the White Sox were ranked the best team in the world. Wasn't in BA that said the Sox had the best farm system in baseball in 2000? Didn't that turn out to be quite wrong? Where someone ranked 5 years ago gets nobody out during this year's games unfortunately. The Sox are replacing Contreras with someone who is worse.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) Unless the organization decides Egbert is ready, you give him the rest of the season. It certainly doesn't hurt and I know you and G.Pratt are especially against him but there is no reason not to let him pitch out the rest of the season. If his ERA is over 10.00 you will blow out the bullpen and lessen the possibility of winning the games Floyd doesn't pitch batting practice in. On the other side of the coin, what if he has an ERA around 6.00 in these meaningless games. Is that good enough to count on him for next year? It is over 1.00 under his career ERA.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) well, he wasn't a second round pick. He was the 4th overall pick and was considered pretty much a top talent. If he didn't have top of the rotation upside, he likely wouldn't have been drafted 4th overall. The team that made the mistake of taking him that high was more than happy to unload him.

For all the people that like this move, I am curious about something, if Floyd continues to pitch like he has shown, how many starts do you give him until you do pull the plug? When is enough enough?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) Long time ago. If he were a second round pick, nobody would hold up this hope that he is better than his numbers have suggested for so long. He just isn't a good pitcher and his stuff is overrated as well. If he were a second round pick or he was acquired for someone not as high-profiled as Freddy Garcia, he would be Charlotte filler.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 09:49 PM) It's a matter of upside. Haeger's upside is that of a rubber arm'd 5th starter. Floyd has the upside of 2-4. You can't be thinking of Gavin Floyd, can you?

Between ducksnorts and umps missing pitches, its amazing the Sox ever win a game.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) Floyd aims his pitches. And he's bad. Coop will fix him.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) To the poster who said that the Sox should have traded Count for the same package... What the hell? Freddy was clearly in decline, maybe injured, and on his walk year. Count was one of the Sox best starters and most would have said that at worst count was going go tbe an above average pitcher this year. The deal for Garcia will always be a good one because of the fact we didnt have to pay his salary and it atleast gave us 2 pitchers, and if 1 of them becomes even decent its a fleecing. If you re read what I wrote, you will see that I never wrote he should have traded Contreras. If you do a search, I was one of the very few who liked this trade when it was made, because I thought Garcia would be awful. I just wrote that KW would have been better off trading Contreras for the same package and keeping Garcia even with Freddy's injury. He wouldn't have to worry about trying to dump a large contract right now.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) It would be crap if we were 5 games out. The Sox are 10 games below .500 in the toughest divison in baseball. You say you want to see him in the spring. This is Spring training. You take the rest of the season to give extended looks to players that could play a role next season. Right now, it looks like Floyd is playing himself out of a job. But there is only one way to find out, and thats with playing time. He has 125 innings of big league experience. You probably would be hard pressed to find anyone with that much "experience" with a 7.32 career ERA. If you aren't convinced he sucks yet, you probably never will be.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) actually yes, because although gavin has been terrible, him and Gio have pitched more innings this year than Freddy, and he was a rental player. So really, it was a GREAT deal for KW and for the Sox. Getting nothing would have been a great deal. I mentioned yesterday if KW could have gotten the same package for Conteras and kept Freddy, even if Freddy didn't throw 1 pitch in 2007 he would have been better off. They still would have Gio and not be on the hook for Contreras or Garcia after this year.

Scott Ruffcorn had at least as good of minor league career as Gavin Floyd. He got 5 starts in a White Sox uniform and 31 total innings. There's not one person who would say he didn't get a fair opportunity or would say anything other than he sucked. Floyd has had his chances and he's been awful. Almost every out last night was a rocket. If he was pitching in any other park in baseball he would have given up another bomb. Why does he deserve a shot at the rotation? If he were a minor league free agent and had the exact same numbers and same stuff and was the same age, he would be DFA'd by now. Send him back to Charlotte, and see him in the spring. If he doesn't improve so what. He's out of options next year, so what. I doubt any team would give him a spot on their major league roster. This "we have to see what he can do" is crap. The Phillies saw what he can do. We have seen what he can do. Nothing good.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) How do you get results, if you don't put them out there to try and get results? Floyd is bad... but what if he's told you are going to get your shot, it's now or never, you have the rest of the season to put it together, mental midget... get it right, or get DFA'd. By the way, what is his contract status? He has over 100 innings in the majors. Most with his results never get another opportunity. He is regressing every season. Why doesn't Haegar or Gio or someone else get a shot then. If Floyd warrant signficant stretch in the major league rotation, there are a lot of guys just as worthy. Give them a shot. Why not say to Floyd, look you have been awful. You're lucky you're getting a major league paycheck. Get someone out and keep the ball in the park and we will then, and only then give you a shot at a role in the rotation?

Why is putting Contreras out there every 5th game just giving the game away, and putting Floyd out there something different? As bad as Contreras has been, Floyd is just as if not more awful. At least Contreras has a history to suggest he may someday find success again. Putting Floyd out there sends the wrong message to others in the organization. Reward younger pitchers for results, not because they were part of a deal for a popular pitcher.

Gavin Floyd has now allowed 8 homers in 14 1/3 innings this season. In his last 94 2/3 innings on the major league level he has allowed 125 hits 98 runs 27 homers 53 walks and 59 strikeouts. He really shouldn't be in the major leagues. I have a feeling he will be looking for another line of work reasonably soon.

QUOTE(frankie5angels @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:43 PM) We must really suck then because we went 4-14 against the NL this year. The Sox do suck. 6 games against the Cubs, 3 against Pittsburgh, 3 against the Marlins, 3 against Houston, 3 against Phil. Houston, Pittsburgh and Florida are awful. The Cubs took 5 out of 6 and Philly lost 2 out of 3 to KC, Det, and Cleve. but swept the Sox.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) Yeah, that's a good point. At least they'll officially reach first place tonight after the local news is over, so we don't have to get that as the lead story. Hope that Zambrano wears himself out before the playoffs. He's almost unbeatable without Barrett catching him. I posted some stats in the Diamond catch anything thread. Zambrano and Peavy are unbeatable unless Barrett catches them when they became not so good.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:38 PM) Nice performance by Matt Wise....10 pitches, 10 balls. Go f*** yourself Brewers. It really doesn't matter. Have you seen the Cubs schedule in September? They have it so easy. They will waltz to a division title. The NL may be worse this year than last.

I wonder if KW could have got the same deal from Philadelphia for Contreras instead of Garcia. Even if he paid Freddy to do nothing this year, he would have shed Contreras' contract and been done with Freddy after 2007.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) Gavin Floyd was the 4th pick in 2001 draft. Screw the draft position. Take that higher signing bonus and use it to sign more and/or better scouts. I agree.

I'm probably one of the very few who think Contreras can bounce back from this. But I'd give him a few starts off. I still think this whole smuggling thing is weighing on him. But as the post above says, Gavin Floyd and Charlie Haeger will hardly make you forget Jose Contreras.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) is anyone else really hoping we lose every game and get the worst record in baseball? You know, I can understand wanting to see the team win if we got quite a few prospects and were going to play them on the ML roster, cause you'd like to see the prospects develop and win at an ML level, but we only really have 2 position prospects worth a damn up right now, so it doesn't matter. As it stands right now, we really need the no. 1 pick and pray to god that the top player in the draft, probably Pedro Alveras, does not have Boras as their agent. But it looks like those bastard Devil Rays are gonna get the 1st pick again, and if not them it would be San Francisco. Well, here is to hoping we lose most of our games for the rest of the season. No way. I know its about draft position, but until the White Sox hire someone from the outside to handle it, not someone from the White Sox "family", I truely believe anyone they draft real early will either get injured, be a pretty mediocre player, be a total bust or not sign.

As bad as Contreras has been, Floyd is showing he's even worse. He gives up 3 bombs tonight and one ball that would have gone out of any other park in the league was a flyout. It seemed almost every out was a rocket. If KW continues to call him one of the top prospects in the game someone should take him away in a straightjacket.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) LMFAO If there's any consolation, at least the single A kids have someone who will hook them up with some beer. That's pretty good. I was thinking earlier that by the time the guy is 26 he should be in AA. He's the second coming of Dewon Day.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 02:36 PM) Murton's not exactly young. He's certainly no better than WMP with the leather either.