Dick Allen

Most teams back-up catchers are not too good. Widger isn't good, but for a back-up he's fine. I would hope the Sox wouldn't waste prospects on trading for a back-up. Stewart is going to be the guy next year. Maybe even in September.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) Last year he got on base and caused havoc. This year he seems to be trying to hit the ball in the air. When he gets on first he either gets picked off, or does nothing. And it seems this year, he has forgotten how to catch fly balls. Not difficult fly balls, no run of the mill he gets under it fly balls. Hopefully they start playing Mr. Fields in LF for the rest of the year, and we can go with a Fields/someone else platoon instead of the great he is fast, cant get on base, cant steal routine we have now. His OBP last year was .351. So far this year its .347. So he's basically getting on at the same rate. He's driving in more runs, and scoring more. Offensively, he is a better player this year than last. There was a love affair with his mediocrity last year that is unexplained. His homer in the WS is the one thing that will make me give him slack. Defensively, he is just awful. I wonder how hard Ozzie laughed when Pods volunteered to move to CF.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 04:12 PM) I defenitely agree that he's not performing anywhere near on a level commensurate with his salary. I think that's why a lot of people are on him a lot more than they otherwise would be. You're right. If he were making $4 million-$5 million, and was expected to pitch like a #5 starter, there wouldn't be an issue with him. If the Sox still had Duque, and he posted the identical numbers, we would be very satisfied. Vazquez is a guy that leaves you always wanting more.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 03:53 PM) Vaz isin't doing very well lately at all but I think saying you're "done" with him is a little premature. Like some other posters said earlier on in this thread, everybody was down on Contreras early last season and now he's our most dominating starter. Give him at least a full season ( especially the playoffs ) with us and working with Coop before passing final judgement. I agree he's nowhere near "done". There are a lot of pitchers that can't hold his jock. He's just mediocre. He's pitching like a #5 starter. As long as he doesn't blow out his arm or elbow, he'll always be able to find a spot on a major league roster. Unless he really kicks it into gear, he's days making $12 million a year will be over with the expiration of his contract.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 03:32 PM) When Wright won 14 in 02 the sox were around the top in runs scored. They might not have been consistent, but they could bomb the s*** out of a pitcher. Anyone know what Wright's been up to since he's had the surgery? I think he had shoulder and elbow surgery. Wright that year had an ERA of 5.18 and pitched 196 innings. The team was nowhere near as good as it is now. Magglio had a huge season, but Frank only hit .252, CLee .264, Paulie hit 27 homers, Mark Johnson and Jeff Leifer each batted over 200 times. I was in NY on my birthday that year, and Wright shut down the Yankees. Leifer hit one halfway up the upper deck in RF off the Rocket. Sox win. As far as Vazquez goes, pitchers who get almost 8 runs of support per start are usually going to have good records. Personally, I don't think his 9-4 record is as impressive as other pitchers with similar wins and losses totals. I think he's had the lead in all but 1 start. I'm thankful he won't be pitching against the Yankees or Red Sox. I also think this "working with Coop" stuff has to stop. The guy is not a miracle worker. If KW thought it would take a year of "working with Coop" to get Vazquez to be consistently dominant, he wouldn't have made the deal. He would have spent the money and/or players on alternatives.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:18 AM) Everyone was all over Contreras, I was I will admit it. I watched him get absolutely bombed against Arizona for an 8 spot. He was in between, throwing his forkball more than his fastball. He looked like he was taking a step backwards. Then poof, he turned it on. Does it happen with Javy, maybe maybe not. He has the stuff. Its just a few pitches that get him in trouble. Its not like they are just bombing the crap out of Javy. I would like to see him attack the zone more, and use his slider more to right handers with 2 strikes. I think he is trying to throw his two seamer more than he should because of trying to keep the ball in the park. I think that takes away from his game. Lets see what Coop does with him. I think its small adjustments that need to happen to make Javy into a winner for us. The other scary thing is at least for the last two seasons, Vazquez pitched significantly worse after the AS break than before.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 12:05 AM) 9-4 is not a bad record. Just saying. Sox are playing great and our number five starter is 9-4. Look at it that way. Do you remember Danny Wright? How about Schoenweis? Josh Stewert? Who do you like as your NUMBER FIVE starter? There are a lot of pitchers that could go 9-4 with 133 runs of support in 17 starts.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 09:48 AM) I love how everyone on this board is a serious budget analyst. We apparently have wasted all of our money on Vaz and have nothing left to fullfill "other needs." Apparently you all are plugged into Jerry's budget for this year. As far as if the team would be better off with BMAC, Young and Viz. How can you say that for sure. The team looks pretty good to me right now. Javy has won 9 games. BMAC has never started for a full season in the majors, who knows if he would have won that many games. You dont know that for sure, f*** he could have been hurt by now, and we could not have another insurance policy and be trading young for Jeff Weaver. This team is good, the pitching is good, the hitting is good and we are winning. Cant anyone be happy? You don't have to be a budget analyst to come up with the FACT that if Vazquez wasn't here, the money being used to pay him would have been spent on somebody else. Its beaten into our heads that every dollar that comes in is spent, and there's no reason to think otherwise. KW was rolling the dice with Vazquez. There is no question about his talent. He reminds me of a right handed Floyd Bannister. A guy with a lot of talent who could get on a roll and be dominating maybe for an entire year, maybe for half of one, but when its all said and done,will wind up with a pretty mediocre career, and have scouts and executives scratching their heads wondering why he wasn't better.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 12:05 AM) 9-4 is not a bad record. Just saying. Sox are playing great and our number five starter is 9-4. Look at it that way. Do you remember Danny Wright? How about Schoenweis? Josh Stewert? Who do you like as your NUMBER FIVE starter? Danny Wright won 14 games in 2002 with a team not as good as this one. He made nowhere near $12 million a year. I believe Vazquez has had the lead in every game he's pitched except 1. Vazquez might be the White Sox #5 starter, but KW and Ozzie didn't send Chris Young to Arizona along with Vizcaino for Vazquez to pitch LIKE a #5 starter. People around here blast the Tigers, saying they haven't beat any good teams, but then they look at Vazquez and talk about his dominating games against the Royals. Vazquez has a nice record, but his performance has been very dissappointing. If KW thought he was getting a guy to throw 6 innings and have an ERA over 5.00, he would have held on to Duque, Vizcaino and Young. QUOTE(KeithFranklin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 07:06 AM) Ahh remember the good old days when the 5th starter meant an immediate loss 90% of the time. I for one couldnt care less about how much the 5th starter is paid. Filling the park, concessions and merchandising now that the Sox are World champs easily pays for it and the Sox front office know it. The problem with paying him all that money is that means that money isn't available for other needs. I wouldn't care what they paid him if he earned it. I think he's been mediocre, just like he has most of his career, but I do disagree with anyone who claims he's dogging it.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) Well, we ALL KNOW Ozzie nor Kenny will move this guy. He's here to stay, and during that stay, he's here to make our bullpen ERA bloated. Here's one for you Cliff: f*** YOU! Who is going to want him? Someone may take the chance if the White Sox pick up the tab. KW will not keep him around unless he shows he can get people out. I really don't know how much more he has to see. If the organization is as high on him as a man as it appears, and from what I understand Cliff is a very good guy, they really need to take him out of his misery right now. He just embarrassing himself on the mound.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 10:27 PM) Crede?! The Orioles probably would have scored less.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) Personally, I'm of the opinion that it should probably be locked, as it's the foulest thing I've read here on SoxTalk. Politte has been bad. You probably should be directing your anger at Ozzie for subjecting Cliff to this ridicule for continuing to use him when its quite evident he just doesn't have it anymore. Politte is not getting nearly the abuse Marte got, and he was always better than Cliff. I also don't see Cliff getting the abuse Shingo got last year, and Shingo was better in 2004 than Politte in 2005, and better in 2005 than Politte in 2006. These guys get paid a lot of money and are expected to perform. If they perform as poorly as Cliff has, even he would understand the thread.

You know a guy is pathetic when someone is clamouring for Montero.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:43 PM) Maybe, just maybe, an outing like this will help him between the ears. MAAAYYYBE. Not.

I'm sure Cliff is a nice guy, but he needs to be released.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:34 PM) I keep thinking there's no way this offense can keep scoring runs like this but they're just not slowing down. I know. They are even scoring more now. That Capuano character shut out the Cubs again. He's 3-0 against them this year and hasn't allowed a run in 26 innings.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:34 PM) So is it Politte time yet? As soon as its slaughter rule eligible.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) Ozzie said he's not counting on him at all, but we have to at least give him a shot IF, and that's a big if, he is healthy. BIg ups to him for working so hard this first half of the year to try and make it back, and if he's healthy, we owe him at least a shot, even if it's just for garbage time at the end of our bullpen, which is what it would be. I have no problem with giving him a shot and the mop-up role Politte can't seem to handle. Hopefully, KW acquires someone better. Its nice to be sentimental, but I'd rather win. I totally agree about his effort. Most would take the money and go home.

If the offense was like this last year, they might have set a record for wins.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:23 PM) BTW, Dustin had an inning of scoreless relief in AAA. If the Sox count on Hermanson at all this year, they will be in trouble. My best cast scenerio for him this season is Politte-like. Dustin is trying, I commend him for that, but if he's not 100% he will get killed.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:17 PM) Contreras was done when the Sox traded for him too. How long did it take for that crappy pitcher to get settled? You can't compare the two at all. Contreras came from Cuba, changed his style and started throwing strikes. Vazquez doesn't have acclimation problems, he's been around and mediocre for a while, and he already throws strikes. Unfortunately the Sox will be stuck with Vazquez this year and next, and there most likely is no chance they would offer him arbitration to pitch like he has. Maybe they will give his money to Buerhle. If Young fulfills his promise, its a worse trade than Todd Ritchie.

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:32 PM) Dare I say....Javy settling in here... Getting 5 after they got 3 may have taken the wind out of the sails of a team going nowhere.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:31 PM) for some reason I don't want boston coming in on a 4 game losing streak They have a 7 game road losing streak against AL teams right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:12 PM) Vazquez needs to get us back in the dugout w/the 5-3 lead. Exactly. It would really be nice if he blew a couple of guys away, but I'd take 3 at 'em balls. QUOTE(Dan @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:13 PM) youre nuts. Navarro was NOT that bad. How could you put that in your sig after witnessing the beast that was Cliff Politte in 2005. Todd Ritchie is clearly worse than both said pitchers. Navarro complained about run support after a game the Sox supported him with "only" 9 runs. He lost the game. He was a bad pitcher, and a total idiot.

You could see that coming 4 batters earlier.