Dick Allen

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:34 PM) I didn't get the chance to see the game, only updates on Yahoo. How did Iguchi get 3 errors? I think he has hit the wall.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) Yah, that works over 3 games, but over the course of the season, if a guy has a higher with more wins, that means his offense has scored more runs. Wins are not an indicator of a pitchers performance. And the difference is 3 earned runs over 27 starts. Santana has allowed 14 fewer runs overall.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) Mark has given up 63 ER in 189.2 innings. Santana has given up 66 ER in 188 innings. So those 3 ERs really make a huge difference. Including tonight, Buehrle has allowed 20 unearned runs, Santana 3.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Yes it is. A guy with that kind of record is getting great offense. That's the reason he is winning. LOL. I can't blieve you're arguing that you'd rather have a pitcher who gives up more runs. Example: Head to Head Gm 1 9ip 2er w Pitcher#2 Gm1 9ip 5er l Gm2 9ip 5er l Gm2 9ip 4er w Gm3 9ip 2er l Gm3 9ip 1er w Pitcher #1 1-2 3.00 era Pitcher #2 2-1 3.33 era Call me crazy, but I'd go with pitcher #2.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:14 PM) And that's exactly my point. The fact that you'd rather take a pitcher who gives up more runs is just incredible to me. I can't put it any other way. What that says is that the other guy's team scores more runs for him. I'd rather have that other guys offense, but I sure as hell don't want him over a guy with a 3.07 ERA. If you read it correctly I would rather have the guy with the higher ERA if over that same time he won more games. There are some pitchers when they lose, lose 4-2. Some lose 8-2. ERA isn't the most important stat.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:09 PM) Like I say, if you think wins have anything to do with measuring a better pitcher, then there is no sense arguing. I can't argue with someone who thinks like that. Just so you know, I think Buehrle is a great pitcher. Certainly not the best in the league, but a well-deserved All Star.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:09 PM) Like I say, if you think wins have anything to do with measuring a better pitcher, then there is no sense arguing. I can't argue with someone who thinks like that. Well, I just blew away your runs allowed theory as well. I did a little research, something maybe you should think about doing. Your argument is ERA. There are things more important than ERA. Buehrle will be 14-7 with a 3.07 ERA after tonight. I would rather have him 16-5 with a 4.20 ERA, but that's just me.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 08:01 PM) Well. If you think wins is teh best way to measure a pitcher I just can't argue with you then. Reading something like that just blows my mind, so it's no point in arguing anymore really. You're right wins don't matter. Its the ERA. The Sox supposedly have a pretty good defensive team. At the moment, Buerhle has allowed 20 unearned runs this season, an indication of trouble pitching over mistakes, something you would expect the best pitcher in the league to do. Santana, who in your mind is no match for Buerhle, has allowed 3 unearned runs this season.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:54 PM) How has he proven anything. IN the only stat that matters, Burly has been better. What stat is that? Please don't say ERA. Right now the difference between Buerhle and Santana is 0.07 , and going in different directions. Wins would be the most important to me. Buerhle has 1 more win, playing on a team that is 10 games better.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:49 PM) Johan Santana is the best pitcher in the league. See, people on this board do some good research.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:42 PM) I'm not attacking anyone. I'm attacking the posts. I just can't stand wrong posts where people say crap without even doing research. You need to do better research. Buerhle has 0 wins against the Angels, you claim he has 2. Beating Detroit and Baltimore really is nothing to hang your hat on. Boston and Oakland are possible playoff opponents, and he was tagged.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) Our number 3 hitter continues to struggle when he's not hitting homers or facing Joe Mays. There is not 1 team in MLB where Everett is a 3 hitter, except the South side of Chicago.

Sweeping the 4 game series in Cleveland is just about the difference with these teams. If Cleveland would have swept, there would be a tie right now in the division at with tonights showing so far, the Sox would be looking up at the Tribe. If Cleveland just split, they would be looking to cut the lead to 3 tonight.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) Well the offense played much better when Podsednik was not hurt. That was there point. Before he was hurt, and just sitting out games they were 11-5 at one point. Look at his numbers. He doesn't drive in runners, and steals are nice, but don't mean jack if you don't score. His runs total is very ordinary.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:29 PM) I just showed you that he has pretty much dominated everyone buy Oakland and Boston. What the hell are you talking about. Go look at his game log. Cleveland, Detroit, Baltimore, Anaheim, etc. etc. How come everyone hasn't crushed the lesser teams and have a low ERA like Buerhle? Because he has the best f***ing ERA in the league. Unreal. Great. He's good against everyone except probable playoff opponents.

Yeah Hawk, blame the game on the 3 unearned runs. That means 4 are earned and the hitless wonders have their 2 run limit. Game over.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:25 PM) How the hell is this Buerhle's fault? Maybe if we got a f***ing rally we would have a shot. Let's see over the weekend we got 5, 4 and 2 runs in Minnesota we got 0 6 (yipee) and 2 runs. Prior to this we lost 7 in a row. The pressure on our staff is incredible as th likes of every hitter in this lineup underachieves. Pierzynski has 47 RBI's??? That is less than Uribe with 8 more home runs. Podsednik is a nice player but he isn't goign to turn this around. Rowand, well he has a nice outing in center at Yankee stadium. We are not the shoe in to the playoffs we think we are. We have not come back in a game in weeks (more than arun down). This was how we were a winning team. THIS IS NoOBUERHLE's FAULT. We are getting schooled by a s***ty pitcher YET AGAIN. That's the problem. This anemic offense puts so much pressure on the pitching staff, eventually they are going to cave. One thing is for sure. If the offense continues to struggle, and the Sox make the playoffs, the pitching staff is going to be exhaused.

Blum with rbi's.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:12 PM) Maybe they don't want to give up Vizquel. Maybe they want to keep him around for next year because they know they will need to make a run as it will probabaly be Bonds last year there and everyone is gettting old. He's saying when he was a free agent. If they added another year at about $3 million, Omar would be at SS.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:10 PM) Thanks, "ace." Buerhle obviously could be better. At least he's not wasting a 1 hitter on a loss.

QUOTE(quickman @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:05 PM) well if he got here tommorrow: a) the fans would go nuts B) We instantly become the talk of the playoff teams nationwide C) He instantly puts power in our lineup. D) We sell more tickets. E) He makes our lineup better. Good press, good power, superstar, left handed hitter, all makes for a whirlwind of confidence this team would get a huge shot in the arm. that is why KW is tryign so hard to get him. He is a difference maker. Not to mention the intimidation. The White Sox are getting to be a pretty comfortable oppenent for opposing pitchers. Adding Griffey would make everyone better. Too bad it isn't going to happen. It would have been perfect.

Who on this thread honesty thinks the White Sox as they are constructed right now are serious WS contenders?

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 07:02 PM) But when your team clearly needs offensive help, you have to find some type of spark. The thing that has concerned me most with KW has been that he's seemed to get fixated on Huff or Griffey Jr. All along, I keep hearing how we would only add a superstar. Well, at quite a few positions, even an average player would be an upgrade over what we have. And getting locked in on Huff with Tampa Bay's history of asking prices and reluctance to trade was a waste of time at the deadline, if it was true.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 06:54 PM) I can agree with your overvalue part. Joe Borchard, anyone? And a whole bunch of pitchers. Although KW wasn't GM at the time, but he was the farm director.

QUOTE(That funky motion @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) I got 9-8 cleveland. Hawks got 9-6 detroit. I'll take Hawks score! The guy that worked on Hawk's eyes is a quack.