StrangeSox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) Satellites don't exactly have backup systems. That's the weight problem, you can't overbuild the things. You don't put anything in there that isn't an essential system. I'm sure satellites have redundant systems. What's more costly, the extra weight for a backup power supply, or losing an entire satellite because one component failed? And the satellite might be capable of performing multiple functions, but you figure out which ones are absolutely 100% critical and start with protecting those and work from there. That's the way any critical system is done--not every single piece of equipment is necessary for core functionality. At least some military satellites are EMP hardened, so they've figured out a way to get it done. edit: this report includes vague references to redundant sub-systems in large satellites.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) There aren't a lot of "Nonessential components" in satellites. You pick what's absolutely critical for the system to still perform at least some functions and protect those the most. Anyway, like I said, any electronics put into space are going to have EMI shielding anyway. EMP shielding is just beefing up that same thing.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) Anyone watch Game of Thrones? I haven't watched the premiere yet, but the 15 min preview was pretty bad ass. I'm looking forward to checking it out this weekend. Just finished the first book, wanna catch the first episode. The book was good and I've heard that, so far, the show is pretty faithful except the last scene with Daeny.

I would think that all satellites have at least some protection from EMI anyway, so beefing up that protection to EMP levels wouldn't necessarily be that drastic.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 01:18 PM) So you need to wrap the entire thing in a conductive layer. That's almost impossible for a full satellite, especially if it has things like solar panels or an antenna sticking out of it. Plus, there's a big weight issue. No, not the entire thing, you can wrap essential components. An EMP isn't going to damage a solar panel (I think?) or an antenna.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 01:06 PM) How on Earth do you harden a satellite (Or Hell, anything) against an EMP? Faraday cage. http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/fa...s41elecpuls.htm edit: Terminology might be confusing. "Harden" in the electronics world means "made more resistant to environmental factors," such as static discharge, temperatures, moisture or EMP. lol google search for EMP shielding turns up mostly paranoid survivalist websites.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) They kinda are. It's the same space. It's actually a bit overcrowded right now, to the point that new satellites are often being put in higher orbits. And the U.S. has a ****load of satellites. I don't know the physics and I'm too lazy to learn it. There'd have to be some minimum effective charge level that comes with a minimum radius where it'd knock out equipment. You could also probably make it directional. I'm sure any critical satellites are hardened against EMP.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Didn't I just read that our Navy successfully tested laser weapons? Raytheon and others have various anti-missile lasers and some that are capable of taking down a drone-sized plane.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 11:17 AM) It could work in theory... but there's some problems. First, the fact that no one's ever succesfully demonstrated it as a weapon. Secondly, the problem of knocking out all the local electronics around the weapon. I'd assumed that Chinese and US spy/military satellites aren't hanging out near each other.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 11:18 AM) So who exactly are you trusting on it? Our politicians? Our regulators? No one, it's all just a plutocracy. We're all f***ed. But that aside, honestly, why wasn't S&P's (and others') credibility trashed after they were found to be completely incompetent at actually evaluating ratings and risk?

S&P or USA? Really though, why are their ratings worth a penny these days after the spectacular failures of just about everyone in finance?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 11:09 AM) I honestly have no idea, so, how exactly would you do it? And #2 would it work in space? You discharge a huge capacitor through an antenna-like device. I don't see why it wouldn't work in space, it's just electromagnetic waves. Basically, it'd be a small-scale version of what a large solar flare pointed directly at our planet would do. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-huge-s...-satellite.html

They're a substantial contributer along with Iraq and Afghanistan.

A nuke isn't the only means of generating an EMP, especially if you're looking at a small target like a single satellite.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:36 AM) Exactly how easy is that to do? No idea, but I'd imagine it'd be easier to mitigate satellite causalities from that versus a fragmentation attack.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) Blowing up a number of satellites is fairly cheap, less than a billion dollars. You just have to launch a vehicle that blows itself up carrying a bunch of ball bearings, and get the trajectory right so that it scatters those particles into the path of a group of satellites. Eh, just EMP the thing.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:59 AM) Pawlenty's Education Committee: Kindergarten Sharing Is "Socialist" Maybe kindergarten kids should be reading Atlas Shrugged. It's being taught in at least one public HS in Illinois. For a pretty ridiculous yet accurate plot summary, check out uncyclopedia http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/John_Galt

Arizona Gov. Brewer vetoed two of the more ridiculous laws coming from the Arizona state legislature, both the birther bill and the campus concealed carry bill. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-...0,5858025.story

Exactly.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:31 AM) I wouldn't be. Why be content with mediocrity and hope to catch up when we play the NL? The law of averages state that our ridiculous run against NL teams will eventually slow down. The law of averages doesn't say anything about how often you should win when playing generally inferior competition.

wheels came off of 2011 pretty quickly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 18, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) Exactly the point. You've got choices. A much more expensive program capable of targeting your enemies satellites and preserving yours, or you just send up a few comparatively cheap ICBM's into orbit, detonate them, and shut down communication across the globe. The former takes a lot more planning and money. The latter costs you your own system. The U.S. would never do the latter because it'll cost the U.S. it's systems...but an enemy that is clearly outspent by the U.S. might well be willing to sacrifice its satellite communications and information just to get an even playing field. I don't know if it's even technically possible to blow up a substantial number of enemy satellites without causing a lot of collateral damage to all other satellites. At the speeds we're talking about, the shrapnel produced would tear apart anything it came across.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 18, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) Even more fun is this article, which really smashes the idea of the rich paying "just a little more" being the way to cover the deficit. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...EditorialPage_h Raise the cap gains tax substantially and add a wealth tax. Cut income tax while you're at it, across the board. Problem solved.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 18, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) I guess the follow up question there is whether they'd have the means to destroy US only satellites, and specifically ones used by the DoD. But assuming they do, hopefully we have a back up system for all of those smart bombs. If you're willing to take down the entire world's satellites, it wouldn't be too difficult. Go up and just blow a ton of debris up at the right orbits and it'll shred a bunch of them to pieces.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 18, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) I always wondered what would happen if the US became TOO reliant on technology. With all this smart technology, what happens if China or some other country has a means of destroying DoD satellites? Who knows if that technology exists, but I wonder if we train for scenarios like that. It's something that seriously needs to be evaluated when systems are selected and into use. World War Z had a good commentary on this. Crash of Flight 447 on NOVA about the AirBus jet that crashed into the Atlantic in 2009 also had similar commentary regarding AirBus's fly-by-wire and flight logic systems and possible detrimental effects when things go bad.