StrangeSox

I think the "ticking time bomb" thing was just a cover for a lot of the real motivation, anyway, which is that a substantial number of people do not actually have a problem with torturing other people (or having their government do it in their name).

the important point is that Bob Kerrey is horrible. Not CIA-torturing-people horrible, but pretty horrible.

that is the same episode! they launch a bear patrol and lisa uses the rock-tiger as an example of bad reasoning.

Plus the Times Square and Underwear Bomber attempts. They ultimately failed due to incompetence or equipment malfunction, not because they were foiled by intelligence agencies.

It's a rock that protects you from tigers, damn it. Looking more closely at that paragraph: We were unprepared for 9/11 because we weren't torturing enough people? I thought it was a widespread intelligence failure to put the pieces we had together. How would torture have helped? Torture is necessary, sufficient, or even helpful at all in keeping us safe? Funny, the report and plenty of history of torture shows us that torture is very useful for getting people to say whatever you want them to say, but pretty useful for actual intelligence-gathering. And this wasn't some immediate post-9/11 thing, torture continued for years. The lies for longer. There was no manual? The FBI had non-torture interrogation methods, as did our armed forces. These things were actually working until the CIA brought in their methods. The CIA has always gone off and done their own terrible things, but there were plenty of non-terrible manuals available. "Mistakes we made" but wait, I thought that Kerrey had just implied that torture was not only useful but necessary to protect the country? Were they deliberate methods used for several years and then lied about repeatedly to Congress and the White House with little or no oversight, or were they just "mistakes?" I think (thankfully) former Sen. Kerrey is being a bit disingenuous here! We haven't been attacked since! This rock also keeps tigers away.

Senator Bob Kerrey reminds us all how terrible he is in his USA Today editorial condemning the report and making all sorts of excuses for torturing people. "But 9/11!!!!!!" still justifies torture in many people's minds. edit: For example, there isn't a single sentence in this paragraph that is not some combination of a logical failure, wrong, contradiction of a previous sentence or an outright misrepresentation.

It's interesting where these techniques actually came from. They're largely borrowed and adapted from the NKVD Stalinist purges. These were methods that were designed and used explicitly to get false confessions to whatever the torturers wanted, and the morons in the CIA decided they'd be great intelligence-gathering tools.

Judy Baar Topinka passed away at the age of 70

Wait, I've got it, we'll present both sides to a grand jury and let them decide!

McCain's statement from the Senate floor:

Keeping America safe! One of the central findings was that all of this torture was also ultimately completely useless, and waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed did not actually produce any useful intelligence in getting OBL.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 01:35 PM) CIA needs to be brought into real parts of government. This "we know what's best" crap has bit us over and over for 60 years. Us, most of Central and South America, the Middle East, ...

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 12:16 PM) Man this CIA doc is awful awful stuff. Awful stuff. jesus christ

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) I'll say this, I was someone who entered this offseason very scared that we were about to waste the next 2 years of a really great core of Abreu/Sale/Q. Others wanted to continue the build for a really strong 2018. I'm happy with this because I did not want to see any more irrelevant seasons from one of the best sox hitters of last 10 years, best sox pitcher in who knows how long, and Q, who is great. You are great Q.

I lost Marshall in my other league. I've got Edelman, Mike Wallace and Boldin left, and need to actually play three WR's (no flex). Is Wilson worth playing over any of them? Anyone else I should look for?

Well I had the lowest score out of everyone this week in my work league, guess the matchup wouldn't have mattered.

Not actually having a gun would be a pretty good clue.

Jackie had asked RS not to include her in the article.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 03:47 PM) How did that not make the national news? These recent cases are nothing compared to that nonsense. It actually gets worse!

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) I'm a big fan of most things Christmas but I HATE Christmas music. It's so bad and you're all wrong for liking it.

Bell did me in too.

here's the actual DOJ report on Cleveland pdf. High(low)lights: and this awful story:

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) I thought you were a lawyer. My law degree is from google! I don't know why being a lawyer would matter, though. Lawyers who believe the system needs reform work with the Innocence Project, SPLC, NAACP, the government, etc.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 02:29 PM) And aren't you part of that system? I am not part of the justice or police system, if that's what you mean. I'm a stakeholder in it in that I'm a citizen.