StrangeSox

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) At what point does it. When you are about to lose consciousness. A 6'3 300 pound man punches you in the face is not the same as a 5'8 175 pound guy doing the same thing. This isn't Mike Tyson's punch out. Okay, but that doesn't happen when they're still 35' away.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) It depends on the severity of the altercation, but yeah, i'm much more willing to allow cops to defend themselves than to expect them to show some unnatural restraint in the name of protecting some moronic criminal. I mean what kind of person is going to punch a cop repeatedly to the point that a cop would fear for his/her life? well in that hypothetical, that's exactly what's at question. Police can't immediately go to deadly force if they're assaulted. If the guy is resisting arrest and hits you a couple of times, that doesn't (necessarily, usually) justify deadly force.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) Is there a link for that info? Sorry for being skeptical but you posted pages of posts on how he got shot in the back. Yes, the store's lawyer made the statement. http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/...brown/14138121/ As far as getting shot in the back, several eyewitnesses have said that the officer shot at Brown as he ran away. The first autopsy doesn't support him being shot from behind, but it is still possible that he was shot at from behind.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) There's no chance in hell i'd convict a cop for shooting a guy that's punching him in the face repeatedly, even if he had tazers or a mace on his belt. I'm not going to question that guys belief that he's about to die and needs to defend himself to the death. In that situation, if you're stupid enough to assault a cop like that, you deserve to be shot. To me, this reads like you'd give carte blanche for deadly force any time there's a physical altercation.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) If he doesn't have a non-lethal device like a taser, and if Brown is charging him, what other options does he have? I'm not sure. I wonder if the Ferguson PD has any training and certification requirements on hand-to-hand unarmed combat.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) I think it depends if you're going to keep punching or if you punch the cop and then run away. Even if I intend to keep punching the cop, they can't just shoot me dead on the spot. They could use less-than-lethal weapons (tazers, mace) or otherwise physically restrain me. They could even go after me with a nightstick, depending on the details. But not every physical assault is life-threatening. edit: that's just speaking hypothetically, not specifically to this situation.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:13 PM) Would help if we knew more about the nature of the scuffle in/at the vehicle. If Brown was physically violent at that point, and then started coming at the cop again after the short chase, I think he has a reasonable need to use force. Force, sure, but there's a force continuum. Punching a cop in the face doesn't entitle them to shoot you.

also fwiw, a customer at the convenience store called the police, but the owners and the employees didn't. Maybe didn't think it was worth the hassle to report a $20 (or however much some gas stations cigars would be) theft.

Any of the multiple lawyers here have any knowledge of deadly force laws? Would the hypothetical scenario of Brown starting to run back towards the police officer from 35+ feet away even justify the use of deadly force?

fwiw it seems to be the organizations that have the worst track records of abuse that are the most intransigent when it comes to installing dash cams.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) We would know what happened if the officer's car had a basic dashboard cam. dash cams at a minimum, ideally body cams for all police.

Cops in Ferguson Threaten to Shoot Reporter, Mace Chris Hayes

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Was there any drugs found in his system? From what I've gathered he was shot in the arm a few times and STILL kept charging forward. Not sure what drug would allow this, if a drug is even needed depending on where at in the arm, or that what extent he was even charging forward. There's no evidence thus far indicating that he was charging forward.

No, a gun is deadly force and you only deploy deadly force when the situation justifies killing someone.

they could also be consistent with him falling down and forward as he was shot

yeah both are scummy, but this seems like a weak case. Just surprised it actually resulted in some indictments.

Protesters tried to stop the looters last night. http://www.ibtimes.com/ferguson-during-fri...-stores-1660418

Another example of cops beating someone foot essentially no reason: http://www.npr.org/2014/08/15/340419821/af...ontent=20140815 Ferguson isn't an isolated incident

Wow, Rick Perry with two felony indictments. http://gawker.com/texas-gov-rick-perry-ind...-fel-1622508741

The article in the OP is overwrought but I don't really see much "outrage" in this tread.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) Then why did they announce the robbery four hours earlier today? That's silly. Possibly for basically the same reasons the #iftheygunnedmedown tumblr gets at: it tars the shooting victim and lets some people justify it ("see, he was a thug anyway! good riddance!") Being more charitable, because it's something that factually happened and it does add additional information to the overall story that started on Saturday and continues. edit: http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/...bbery/14124259/

the police chief just said that the cop had no idea the robbery had even occurred. so it was basically irrelevant. That goes back to the original reports that he was just yelling at them for walking in the street instead of on the sidewalk.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Lol at all the faux outrage. We've all been guilty of saying stupid and insensitive things in our lives. And quite frankly, it can be very hard to break these bad habits. I have absolutely zero problem with homosexuality and try my best to avoid use potentially offensive words, but I do slip up from time to time and use the word "gay" out of context (calling something lame). I've even done this in front of gay people I know. They have never scorned me for it, they have never judged me for it. They know I'm not a hateful person and understand it's nothing more than a bad childhood habit showing its ugly face. I think you make a pretty important distinction here, though. Yeah, everybody has said and almost definitely will again say stupid or insensitive things, but the difference is in how you react when it's pointed out to you that what you said was stupid and insensitive. You occasionally still call something "gay," but you try to stop and don't make excuses about it being perfectly ok to go around calling things gay. I just rolled my eyes when I heard Hawk say what he said. I don't think he should be fired or even suspended over it, but I hope he'd listen to the criticism and maybe understand why it was a sexist remark.

Radly Balko has written about the police militarization for years, if anyone is interested in looking into that aspect a little deeper. http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Mil...s/dp/1610392116

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) But you have to admit this is a very extreme example, if what the witnesses say is true. There were ample outs for this cop. There were many different things he could have done. This is a murder that can't be covered up or "fudged" at all. It's straight up, the kids running away I'm going to kill him. I bet those instances are rare. Shooting when it wasn't justified, sure, but there's usually a fight or there's a mistaken belief of their being a weapon etc. This is basically an execution from 20-30 feet. Yeah, I'd agree that cases as awful as this one appears to be are rare.