StrangeSox

Government-funded bond payments are much more preferable than government-funded health care for retired workers.

They're free to not buy from GM if they have a problem with pensions for labor but no problem for obscene wealth for executives.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 5, 2012 -> 07:46 AM) That's just it, I think people are catching on that they are paying for other people's retirement, especially when you see the fraud and the games being played in Illinois. On the other hand, we have companies like Verizon and Caterpillar laying off workers and fighting to slash wages and benefits while paying out hundreds of millions of dollars collectively to a handful of top executives over the past several years.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 07:50 PM) Well, that's his fault. Nobody forced him to take his talents to South Beach. Or turn the whole thing into such a spectacle and be part of a pre-season championship rally.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:13 PM) Bond holders are funding capital. Pensioners aren't. It can also get a little messy because other pension funds might be bondholders as well. Still, it's pretty sad that people see retirees getting what they are legally owed at the expense of investors as such a terrible thing.

QUOTE (Papa Tru @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:40 PM) lol Anyone trashing an iPhone has obviously never owned one. Its literally one of the greatest things I have ever owned. I can watch my MLB.tv on it, I have legit games, Netflix, a butt load of music.. it does so much, that's why people say "iPhone" and not just cell phone. A regular cell phone is a piece of s*** compared to an iPhone. Android has these things as well.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) Yes. Contractual obligations. That is funny. That is what you call it. Ponzi is more like it. You keep believing the payouts are justified. You keep believing the taxpayers should make up the losses that pension funds lose. That's fair, right? It's an obligation. Where is the fiscal obligation of the assholes voting for this nonsense. You keep on believing 3% compounded colas are sound fiscal policy. You keep n believing healthcare for life is fiscally sound and honest to all the other working people who have to pay for these stiffs. Sanctity of the contract is only important for the bond holders, not the workers who gave a lifetime of labor partially in return for promised pensions contractually agreed to by their employers.

He's a corporatist stooge with a never-ending desire to appear as some great post-partisan compromiser to cement his legacy\.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 08:59 PM) By your jackass, er I mean, president's own words, May 2012 unemployment with his original stimulus was to be 5.7%. WTF? I mean, it's gotten better!!!!!!!!!! Give it a rest. The guy is a complete failure, by his own goalposts. Obama is a failure. His policies failed. Not for the same reason you or jenks think.

Pensions that workers earned for decades of service per contractual obligations=teat sucking unions.

Going to Second City for our anniversary, any dinner recommendations in the area? Looking more upscale but not jacket-and-tie fancy.

Independents are mostly partisans, chapter gazillion

Didn't LeBron recently have one of the best playoff games of all time?

hey guys I have two cats and mentioned them somewhat recently in this thread. I wasn't serious.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) Cats are awesome. No two are alike. all cats are identical. I bet I could swap yours out and you wouldn't even notice.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) haha I like dogs, they are just too time consuming for the style of life I lead right now. I feel guilty leaving my cats when I go out at night and they have 2 booda domes, 2 water bowls, a water fountain and free rein of an apartment. cats are fine for a weekend with enough food and water.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:21 PM) Yes, having a big yard and others to play with can certainly replace the need to walk them. A lot of my neighbors still walk their dogs even though they have decent-sized fenced yards.

I didn't respond by saying Obama didn't take credit for the bailout. I said he did but I'm unaware of him or his campaign claiming credit for Bush's loans to the auto industry.

You have a bizarre definition of "double-speak."

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:44 AM) Spending a year on passing legislation for job/economic growth instead of health care? U3 was above 9% in May 2009 and hit 10% in October. The stimulus bill was passed in early February, well before anyone started to focus on health care. What could have been done in such a short time period to stop it from getting that high?

You're right, if you include January 2009 for Obama, unemployment has gotten "worse" under his Presidency. If you use February 2009, it's improved ever-so-slightly. Do you think there's anything that anyone could have done starting on 1/2/09 to prevent U3 from reaching 10% in late 2009?

Where's the double-speak? How on earth is it fair to hold Obama accountable for unemployment losses from December 2007-January 2009? On what standard is jenks' claim that "unemployment has gotten worse under Obama" actually true, even if you use January 20th, 2009 as the starting point?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) Hey all I was pointing to was that unemployment hasn't gotten any better under Obama. It's gotten worse. Yes, he inherited a s***ty economy, but he has done nothing to improve that situation in almost 4 years. I'm also a huge fan of Obama taking credit for what Bush started - the auto bailout. So...he gets it both ways. s***ty job market = "Bush's fault." Auto industry rebounding - "I did it all!" You used December 2007 as your starting point. Unemployment has gotten better under Obama even if you look at rates other than the typical U3. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/whats-the...l-jobless-rate/ s***ty job market and global financial collapse in 2007 & 2008 = "not Obama's fault" at the very least. Bush provided emergency loans to the automakers and Obama's administration ran through the managed bankruptcy process. I don't know that Obama's claimed "I did it all" as most of his campaign rhetoric in this area has been contrasting him against Romney's private-equity stance, not Bush. But if you're going to be critical of Obama for taking too much of the credit there, how about Romney taking "a great deal of credit" for the auto bailouts?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:43 AM) Accounting for the velocity of money, this has been Obama's economy for about a year and a half or two years by your standards. Ok?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:32 AM) Which means what, four years? When the stimulus passed at a minimum, more appropriately as the funding went out. Mid-Late 2009?