iamshack

Could just be a contingency plan on their part.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 05:10 PM) pls don't get me wrong. i am with you. but the fans see 1 side of this. and that is why i keep saying sox fans are smarter......... we are looking at the whole picture. it is the management and FO of the dodgers that may be feed up with puig. Ahh...I'm sure it's somewhere in between.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 03:15 PM) Agreed. I want him to retire a White Sox player. Do you want to win, or do you want Chris to forever be a White Sox? I hope not, but those might be mutually exclusive for the next several years.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 02:15 PM) 1. Avisail Garcia. Top of the list and not even close. We need him to be an above average player and he's one of the worst couple OF in baseball. 2. Jose Abreu. Massively underperforming last year and looking like a major long-term "injury plagued" guy. He's still a solid player but we were counting on him to be an MVP candidate and you can't tell me you have confidence he'll get back there as of now. 3. Alexei Ramirez. We've gone from having an overperforming SS to a massively underperforming SS. 4. Eaton. He's still a decent player but last year he was on pace to be an All Star, 5 fWAR guy. Now he's on pace for ~2-2.5. That's an ok player but that is a huge dropoff from anything that lets us project this as a competitive team. 5. Flowers/Gillaspie. These guys looked like they could be close to tolerable big leaguers, now they look like replacement level (flowers) or below replacement level. 6. No longer have Marcus Semien, dramatically decreasing infield depth. Do you count on Sanchez and Saladino as starters? I'm at best uncertain. Anderson getting a shot in 2017 is fine but I expect rookies to struggle in the bigs, so even if he gets the spot I'm expecting him to contribute little in 2017 at best. 7. Money tied up in underperforming, poor defense left fielder who may not age well. By 2017 yes we'll have 2 major contracts cleared up, but we have no one to replace the open 1b slot that LaRoche will vacate so we'll be right back to plugging that hole by overpaying on the FA market. If you're like me and you don't think Anderson can step in and contribute right away in 2017 because he's a rookie, then we have a ton of below average positions and virtually no "strongly above average" positions in our lineup. We might be able to create one out of Micah, but there's no strong depth behind him if he needs time to adapt to the league too. Wow...that was quick work, Balta. Did you have that keyed up somewhere just waiting to bust it out? 1) I guess for me personally, I never believed in Avi. His struggles this year don't really impact my outlook for the future, most likely because I never considered him part of it. 2) Jose is a concern, but he's still putting together the long hit streaks. Yes, his power numbers are down, and that is a concern. However, I have not seen enough of that to say that last year isn't repeatable. For me, I won't worry about Jose unless this continues next season. 3) Alexei's performance this year, to me, is not particularly surprising. Well, that is a lie. To say he would be THIS bad is a surprise. But ultimately, his performance this year doesn't impact my outlook much considering I never saw him as an impact piece for the future. Honestly, if he was playing to career averages this year, would it really matter one way or the other? 4) Eaton I will agree with. I am actually more concerned with him than anyone else on this list, primarily because he's the one guy I had penciled in as part of the future. He kind of slots into the same bucket as Jose for me...I need to see more than this year to know if he is the player from last year or the player from the first 90 games of this year. 5) Flowers/Gillaspie - this one I don't know how anyone was counting on these guys for much of anything. 6) Semien was expendable, mostly because of the infield depth. I'm counting on Micah and Tim more than Semien, although admittedly, I would prefer to have 3 bullets instead of 2. However, perhaps the Shark return will offset that. 7) I didn't care for the Melky signing much, and I can concede that one could bite us in the rear. However, given the relative cost of the pitching staff moving forward, I don't think Mekly's contract should hurt us as badly as one might expect. Would I prefer to not have it on the books? Yes. Do I believe it will hamstring us much? Not really. I guess I've been down on the team since the 2012 collapse and perhaps my expectations were not as high as others. I do like what I see recently, but perhaps we're just coming from different perspectives from the outset.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 02:00 PM) I will probably say I led the charge against that opinion last year and now I'm much more open. That's how much of a setback I view the 2015 offseason to be. Last year I thought there was near certainty we could field a competitive team by the start of 2016 with lots of payroll flexibility as well. Now I'm skeptical about 2017, and that forces me to consider alternate options. But that's really the thing...what has the year really done to change anything? What key contributors have really failed this year in regards to the grand scheme of things?

I'm pretty surprised how much the tide has turned in regards to an openness by Soxtalk posters to moving Sale....seems like this was almost unfathomable to most last year at this time.

Was this actually some kind of rumor? Edit: Ahh...I see what you did now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) I'm thinking about it and I'm just confused by this. All I can think of is that Scott Kazmir was literally almost out of baseball for awhile...Shark has been on a pretty steady upward swing since his career began. This year he's shown a bit of struggles, but has been solid for 2 months now.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:39 PM) Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 10m10 minutes ago The #Astros engaged in talks with #Whitesox about Jeff Samardzija before acquiring Kazmir from #Athletics, sources say. Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 9m9 minutes ago One source said it came down to #Astros and #Athletics being a "better fit'' more than #Whitesox being indecisive to deal. Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 9m9 minutes ago I'm also hearing #WhiteSox are active in trade talks even though they haven't thrown up the white flag publicly. Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 8m8 minutes ago #WhiteSox think they can still get a significant haul for Samardzija at deadline. #BlueJays among several clubs interested. Damage control.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:12 PM) 75% of the posts were freaking out because Samardzija wasn't the first player traded. I think that shows a lack of fortitude. Be patient and have respect for the process. If you wanted to say the Sox should have been selling two weeks ago, not only is that a fair argument, I would agree with you. I think this mixed signals thing is overstated. In operations, it's all about contingencies if the FO you have is good. Right now the Sox are sifting through tens of prospects from more than five teams. They may not have had a specific package on the table ready where they could accept when ready, but they were still acting as sellers behind the scenes even if they were still seeing if they were in the hunt. The only difference is they weren't going to a pull the trigger. Well, we have a difference of opinion on the bolded. This has nothing to do with fortitude and more to do with fans being tired of giving the Org the benefit of the doubt when they've done virtually nothing to deserve it.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) My contacts are condemning behaviors of the FO. This is not a race to trade your asset. Yes, the market is shrinking and yes there are more pitchers available but that doesn't mean you undersell your only good asset on the market. I was saying we should have traded Samardzija earlier regardless of the team's hot streak. I am on record saying so. That doesn't mean that because the supposed top contender for Samardzija paired up with the strangest FO in baseball to trade for a different pitcher means the FO struck out on July 23rd. There are plenty of teams in the market for SP. I do think they should act quickly and move him soon but no trade between the two strangest front offices in baseball will get me to a conclusion that the Sox' FO totally f***ed up the trade deadline here on July 23rd. I have patience and understanding of the process so I won't make rash decisions based on one singular related transaction. Well that is a very different line of thinking than "no one here has a backbone." Again, people here are reacting to the notion that the FO has no plan, not the particular players involved in this deal. Honestly, I agree with what the FO has said and that this is a 3-year window and not a 1-year window. As such, they need to move players who no longer fit into that 3-year window. I think the problem is they are trying to be a seller and a buyer at the same time and it's sending mixed signals to the market.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) This makes absolute sense. And is absolutely a problem. The White Sox will not make many deals as sellers if they're trying to acquire the same types of players the buyers are attempting to acquire...the entire reason teams trade with one another is because of a diversity of needs...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) How many times was Nottingham mentioned on this site before today? Now all of a sudden, this A ball catcher is something the Sox really needed. It's beyond laughable. If the Sox actually made this trade today, and a couple of days later, another rental was traded for a better known prospect, the complaining would have no end. I am sorry, I am not losing my mind because the Sox didn't acquire some A ball catcher that wasn't even a top 20 Astros prospect before this season began. Maybe I should be. But why don't we wait to see what was acquired and how they turn out before deciding the White Sox blew it? And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza? Again, the frustration comes from the reports in regards to the White Sox organization being clueless, not that they missed out on these particular prospects.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) This thread is what's embarrassing. Scott Kazmir was traded to Houston. Scott Kazmir also plays for a Billy Beane ran team. Maybe Houston could get Kazmir cheaper than any other pitcher. Oakland operates in a strange way. The lack of backbone in this thread is laughable. Don't let your contacts cloud your vision...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:05 AM) I think the outrage over Cranick's tweet is silly. If the Astros were offering something the White Sox wanted, I am sure a deal would have been done. Yeah. The problem is the White Sox probably wanted someone to help them win this year.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Honestly embarrassed Yeah, that is unacceptable.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) There's going to be quite a few Sox fans pissed after they see what the return for Samardzija is. Same if Alexei is traded. I'm just trying to be more realistic. Samardzija is a rental among many rentals in a small buyers market so I'm keeping my expectations low to avoid disappointment with the return. You may be right, but this is supposedly one of the better seller's markets in years.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 07:01 PM) Sometimes you just don't see a guy well. You guys bagging on Avi I just don't understand. He's 23 . Saladino is 26. Avi's got a ton of talent as evidenced by the fact that he's a total hack up there yet batting average wise he's like 2nd on the team. If he ever learns how to hit and not just rely on his natural ability. he'll be pretty good. But it's not just about age...it's progression. When a guy continually makes the same mistakes over and over, but gets away with it in part because of his talent, it doesn't matter whether he's 23 or 26...ultimately he's going to peak once the talent catches up with him (usually in AAA or in the MLB) and then it's just a mindf*** from there on out. It happened with Dayan and I think it's going to happen with Avi.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 06:24 PM) Not damaged goods, just an underachiever that maybe another team thinks they can fix. The bigger concern is that our scouting continues to identify these guys as valuable. It took me about 3 games to realize I didn't think either Viciedo or Avi had much of a chance.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 03:40 PM) I'm pretty sure this conversation has veered away from the documentary that was its focus, but when talking about race in this country, I think it's important to note that, as Jenks point out, yes, being white provides a certain level of privilege over being black. I presume that everyone in this thread worked hard to be where they are - I certainly know that I did. But I also understand and acknowledge that my background - middle class with parents who valued the crap out of education - gave me a leg up in getting to where I am now. It was only 50 years ago that the Civil Rights Act passed. Policies that directly impacted generations of African Americans were phased out within most of our parents' lifetimes. To acknowledge that it was easier for my parents to obtain middle class success in America than for a large chunk of minorities is simply reality. It doesn't devalue the work that my parents did to be successful, it just acknowledges the reality of race in in the 60s. The point here (before I really start rambling) is that acknowledging that being white helps and having empathy for those who have had to (and still have to) deal with/fight discrimination is a huge and necessary step in race relations. But what you are saying and what the documentary seems to be showing are different things, are they not? I'm pretty sure Jenks and Alpha understand what you articulate the "point here" is. That seems to be much different than what they are arguing the documentary to be asking white teenagers to do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) But from the periods you are discussing, they have made changes. Laumann does the draft. Hahn is the GM. Marco Paddy was hired. Ventura is a change. They have done exactly what you are calling for except for one guy, and now, all of a sudden, after a winter of giddiness from Sox fans. Soxfest sellouts, everyone bowing to Hahn, failure happens. Guess what? Now all those moves that couldn't have been more praised by media and the fans, they had nothing to do with Rick Hahn. It clearly was Kenny Williams, the guy that did build the only team that has won in about 100 years, now hasn't a clue, and is forcing Hahn to sign players, and has a gun to JR's head telling him he has to approve the payroll increase. That's fine and dandy, but now let's get back to the facts, which aren't so entertaining. JR was told his team had a lot of holes and was a bit away from contending. JR wanted to win right away and told his guys they needed to do what they could to make that happen. They don't have much they can trade away for anything that helps, but they took that, and got Samardzija. They did the other thing they could do and signed several free agents. This wasn't KW running the ship, this was JR. Maybe KW goes to Toronto or somewhere else this offseason, but he and Hahn did what JR ordered. Baseball, not being like other things in life, sometimes doesn't go as planned no matter how much effort and thought you put into it. BRAVO! BRAVO!

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) Thanks! Great job, Mike!

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) https://www.bsh-group.com/laender/us/ According to the site, the home appliance company is headquartered in Irvine. I presume Mount Prospect is another division (not appliances)? Well it looks like they have several different headquarters associated with appliances even.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 16, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) Barstool had me on to talk about the Samardzija situation and state of the Sox. http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/fire...de/#getcomments Well done, Brian!

Interesting article. The biggest lesson learned has less to do with acquiring big name players and more to do with Preller's lack of focus on the unique characteristics of his home ballpark. There is a huge diversity there (less than their once was, however) and he failed to capitalize on it. In fact, he reversed it.