iamshack

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 07:20 AM) He'll cost about $6m (half of the entire value of the Keppinger contract) and another season of Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Saladino being forced out of position or stuck in AAA. I'm not saying that logjam has been or will be a problem THIS year, but it probably will next year. And it'll be Gordon free agent year. It's time to s*** or get off the pot with him. I've not seen anyone at this point who should displace him because they offer similar or equal production. I fully understand the concept of cost savings, but you don't dump a player for $6 million if he's finally fulfilling some of his untapped potential because you are going to be stubborn about it. We've resisted the temptation to sell low on him for this long, so now he finally starts looking like the hitter you thought he would be, at the age of 27 no less, and you dump him for nothing because of $6 million? That is the epitome of being short-sighted. Again, obviously it depends on the return. If someone offers a legitimate piece for the future, a piece of need, then sure, go ahead and put your faith in Semien or whomever. But barring that, and I really do doubt you get that kind of offer, what is the risk in holding him? If he flames out again, you non-tender him next year and escape the $6 million price tag and let one of the kids take over. But if this is for real, and you trade him for some marginal prospect or reliever so you can make a futile run at a one-game playoff, and then he continues to hit like this for another team after you've endured all the growing pains of his development, well then you've really made a stupid move.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) 2B is one of our few positions of true depth. As the most expensive and least controllable member of that group, Beckham has to go. What do you suppose he would make next year? I'm not going to cut ties with the guy now if he plays well simply because it's taken him longer to reach his potential than we thought. He's still just 27. Obviously it depends on the return, but I'm not going to just dump him for nothing out of principle. And Jake, if we sell now, and he becomes a perennial all-star, that is not selling high. That's selling low.

I know I'm in the minority, but might we want to see if this resurgence is real, considering that Steverson seems to be getting through to a few guys that others haven't? Or have they returned to their old habits enough that we don't like Steverson anymore either?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) But what if he grounded out on that pitch? The fact is Sale was able to execute a great pitch exactly how he wanted, so was not Ventura right that Sale was still able to get Trout out? I think if normal things happen at that point, we look and say "Man, that Chris Sale is a bulldog. Kudos to Robin for trusting his ace to pitch over that mess. What a great pitch he threw there to get out the best player in the league." I guess if someone could show that Sale's mechanics were suffering, that would be good evidence that he was gassed. And if he's in there while gassed, that's a huge mistake. But the pitch count alone was reasonable, and that he loaded the bases, by itself, isn't indicative of anything more than a rough patch the third time through the order. Can we look up to see if his arm slot had changed somehow? I feel like I've seen that stuff somewhere but I don't know where it is. Well there were 0 outs, first of all. He gave up two hits to the last three batters in the 7th. Then he comes in and gives up two hits to the first two batters in the 8th (and one run). Gets the third batter to hit a ground ball in the hole at short. Alexei can't find the ears on it; it wasn't going to be a double play like many here have said but he should have at the very least got the force at second. The next hitter gets another hit. That is now five hits in seven batters, and the sixth batter got on via an error (although I think they ruled it a hit). I generally agree, you don't take a pitcher out because of seeing-eye singles or bad luck; those hits are indeed more luck and not a result of his effectiveness. However, given that he's around 100 pitches, and opposing hitters are making contact and finding holes, I think it's fair to assume he was tiring, was losing concentration, or hitters were picking up his release point better. You're looking at one pitch he made to Trout and making your decision for the entire sequence off the location and effectiveness of that one pitch. I don't think many people here have claimed Trout didn't hit a great offering. The point is that Sale and Ventura allowed Trout and the Angels to be in a position where the best hitter in the League hitting a home run tied up what was a 5-0 game in the 8th inning. We all know what Trout is capable of; this is nothing new.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 10:41 AM) But Ventura should be fired, right? At least that's what the thread is about. For the 5th or so time, the problem wasn't Chris giving up the homer to Trout. The problem is the other run that scored and the 3 runnners that were on base when Trout came up to bat, SO THAT TROUT'S HOME RUN TIED THE GAME. Additionally, even allowing Chris to face Trout coming off a recent injury in which you absolutely know he is dying to win that matchup. It was an unnecessary risk for injury to the organization's most valuable player. You are really bright. How are you missing this?

Anyone a golf historian? I've been researching Hogan a lot recently. Obsessing about his swing and the ball striking ability which resulted. You guys find any particular player especially fascinating?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) Nope. And he made a good pitchers pitch to Trout and he put a great swing on a change out of the zone. This is just so much of an oversimplification. I guess the other 5 hits were great pitches that good hitters got to as well.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) I would rather have the best pitcher on my staff face the best hitter on the other team. I'll take those chances. This one just didn't work. Maybe you should read the other posts in the thread before that, in which I mentioned the problem wasn't so much Sale facing Trout. At that point, I agreed with the decision to leave him in (although I was holding my breath at that point). The point was to get him out 3 batters before that. I understand he is Chris Sale. But he's human. He's coming off a recent injury. He had thrown 100 pitches. He had given up 4-5 hits in a span of 6-7 batters. I could really care little about the outcome of the game. What I care about is Chris Sale's long-term health. How would you feel if he would have reinjured himself overthrowing to Trout, so he could get this meaningless win? A large part of a manager's job is to protect the players from themselves. Otherwise, we would just allow the pitcher to determine himself when he wanted to come out of the game, which, let's face it, would be never.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Well, to be fair, maybe Ventura's gut said Petricka. With this bullpen, I think we're grasping at straws here looking for a scapegoat. They're a bunch of similarly half-decent arms with consistency issues -- sometimes they're going to blow up on us. Even a guy who has three good outings in a row is just a guy who had three good INNINGS in a row. It's just not enough to predict any kind of dominance or crappiness. There's really no clear best guy, so going with who is rested or seems ready is a reasonably defensible move pretty much every time. I don't care who he brought in. The point is he should have just gotten Chris out.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:24 AM) I didn't see the game, but this is what it sounds like to me. I'm confused. Ventura allows Sale to face Trout at 108 pitches Hahn should be on the hotseat if he doesn't fire Ventura immediately. I've looked over the thread but I'm failing to see the fireable offense. I don't think a lot of people are upset he faced Trout. I think people are upset because he gave up two hits in the 7th, and then a few more to start the 8th. 95% of managers would have pulled him then before things got out of hand. Instead, Robin leaves him out there. The next batter hits a ground ball in the hole that Alexei did his patented slide to get to, and I don't know what you guys are thinking, because there is no chance he was going to turn two, but he certainly should have gotten one out there. So then Robin is probably thinking ok, they are not hitting the ball hard off him, and he still is coming with good velocity, I'll let him get out of this jam because he probably has a better chance than one of my bullpen guys...the next guy proceeds to hit the hole between 1st and second and we have bases loaded, but still with a 5-1 lead. Except...Mike Trout is coming up, followed by Pujols. Who do I bring in? If I had to get Mike Trout out with the bases loaded, who would I want to face him? Well, I guess my best, Chris Sale...so I'll leave him in again... Obviously it is easy to criticize Robin here because of the end result...but the bottom line is, Chris doesn't have to throw 100 pitches every time out. He was starting to get touched up a bit, and after the double to lead it off, then the base hit by the next batter...just get him out of there. There was absolutely no need whatsoever to leave him in coming off a recent injury in a high leverage situation there. This isn't a division rival. This isn't late August or September in a huge game. This is June 7th in a rebuilding year and you are jeopardizing your most important piece of the puzzle.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 07:18 AM) Strangely enough, I'm finding myself agreeing with most of that. My problem is more with what happened after the Trout GS. And Flowers, for all his offensive improvement, has regressed in some phases of the game defensively....especially pitch framing and blocking. All I can say is leaving Sale in there to pitch to Trout was dangerous...it's too soon off his injury to have him trying to get Trout there having thrown that many pitches. If this is a developmental season, and not a competitive one, you don't risk Sale exerting too much effort there just to try and save the game.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 06:23 AM) You don't have to go back very far to see that. Robin was an idiot to bring his closer into a 3-0 game in the 9th with John Danks pitching. An absolute idiot. I actually don't remember a lot of hemming and hawing about that decision.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 05:28 AM) What did Sale do? He took a bat with him back into the tunnel to beat the living s*** out of something...

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 06:19 AM) Had Ventura brought in a reliever and Trout took him deep, this board would have melted down. "How dare you take out the best pitcher in the league! " I didn't disagree with letting him face Trout...at that point, Sale might have been the best shot to get him out. But then do you leave him in to face Pujols with that logic too?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 7, 2014 -> 11:47 PM) What kind of pitch did Trout hit? Classic second guessers out there tonight. I was holding my breath that he wouldn't overthrow something and hurt himself against Trout. You know how badly he wanted to get him. Personally, I would have pulled Sale after the lead off double. Ventura is a terrible in-game manager, and terrible with the pitching staff.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) FYI, they typically include a clause in these contracts that the team would pay for their college education if they don't pan out. The kid the Indians signed just had them throw in 8 semesters of Vanderbilt tuition

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) Well this isn't an encouraging quote from Rodon..... "Q. Going to get a deal done with Sox? Your sense and feeling. A. I’m not really sure. That’s later down the road. In a month or so we’ll figure that out but I’m still trying to enjoy this moment, spend time with my family and enjoy the whole thing and let it sink in." Well he's just posturing. He says he's enjoying the moment still...what's wrong with that? The "moment" means little if it means he's not going to sign and get to play and get the money...

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 07:03 AM) I think most feel Eaton is a better LF candidate long term. Why?

I'm on the walk 9 or 18 holes a few times a week in 100 degree heat diet. Lost 5-6 pounds this week.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 06:21 AM) I just want you guys to know that so called baseball enthusiast "Eminor3rd" missed the entirety of picks 4-43* because of alleged sexual intercourse with a female partner. (I was working during the Rodon pick, what am I supposed to do, control when I work?) * - may be incorrect Until we see the female partner, we may not hold judgment...

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 08:10 AM) He has incredible command. Change-up got away from him in recent years. Fathom, who do you like?

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 07:33 AM) Seth Lakso ‏@SethLakso 3m MLB draft updates per a source: looking like hou - aiken, mia - rodon.. And #whitesox now split on Kolek/Nola Previously he said the Sox were split "50/50" on Kolek or Rodon. So apparently they really like Nola? Or are not sold on Kolek? I don't think it is anything against Kolek as much as just an organizational philosophy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 07:23 AM) I've had similar happen. It is extremely amatuerish. It's better they tell you prior to the interview rather than hold the interview anyway and waste your time. Nothing like having an interview for a position you know about 3 questions in you never had a chance of getting.

I don't really mind who they select of the top handful of guys, unless they pass on Rodon to take Nola. That would tick me off.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2014 -> 12:37 PM) And JR was the money man. If they stuck with KW's original 4 year $40 million, Abreu would be elsewhere. That was just his initial assessment. No one really knew for sure where it would end up. Just go look at what the guesses were...they were all over the place.