iamshack

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) Here's a player that hasn't been mentioned that may have more value than almost anyone we're talking about -- Alejandro de Aza. He could easily be a big piece of a deal that brings a David Wright type player in. We may regret letting him go, or we may get to see Jared Mitchell roam center field for years and forget about it. To me, De Aza is as big a part of the team's success as anyone...but you are correct in stating that he is a valuable piece.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 12:05 PM) Looks like they need a new quant guy. If they are optimizing revenues, KW wouldn't need to say anything. Optimizing revenues based on expected attendance, not on possible attendance.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Ta-da! That, and as somebody mentioned above, the food prices? They rape you at the Cell. Here's my case: did anybody try to get online to get Cubs/Sox at the Cell? I was just poking around (really don't care, since it was on a M/T/W--WTF?) and even though the Cubs suck and the White Sox' attendance is dismal and nobody cares about the series much anymore, you could forget getting a ticket for anything less than 80 bucks, even in the nosebleeds. Stubhub was no better. So they lost me on this one, and I've never missed a Cubs/Sox series until this year. Even for this week's Brewers series the decent seats are priced ridiculously. I wonder what economy these guys think we have right now. It's obviously some kind of algorithm they're running which theoretically optimizes revenues. My guess is it is sort of like a production cost model of some sort that they are manipulating on the fly. I don't think they are just pulling numbers out of their asses.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) I think the question is isn't there a better way to attempt to increase revenue than saying attendance is an issue? It hasn't worked in the past, why would it work now? If its an issue, do something about it. I don't understand how you can give people a discount if they find a code, but can't afford just to make the unsold seat the same price so people don't have to jump through hoops to get it. I'm beginning to think the White Sox actually don't mind this attendance and media talk. It makes people overlook revenue and concentrate on weak ticket sales. If they are pricing tickets at the level they are pricing them, they must be hard to get. Isn't that how supply and demand works? I don't understand why Brooks would rather keep bleacher seats at $90 and lower boxes in the corner at $105 rather than actually sell them and get some revenue. KW shouldn't be discussing this stuff with the media, he should be discussing it with Brooks and his crew. Since its apparently all about dollars "available" let's look at 2011. The Sox were in the top 10 in revenue generated in MLB. Were they in the top 10 in on field performance? Who really is the party not holding up their end of the deal? Considering how these guys have showed they can play this year, the players did not hold up their end of the deal last year...and I feel that way for most years when we don't compete.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 08:50 AM) If Kenny didn't answer those questions directly, the media and fans would freak out. What he's trying to do is be realistic with the fans so there isn't an even greater alienation going on if they don't add to the club.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:19 AM) But then he proceeds to talk about it! His quote was this: I guess you would have preferred he said "No comment."?

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:17 AM) I don't believe that the Sox "overspent" by any means. The players way underperformed. Well we overspent as a function of the players not performing. They spent that money based on an expectation that the players would perform, the team would contend, the fans would come, and the revenues would reflect that. It didn't work out that way. I agree with your distinction, but at the end of the day, they had player payrolls not supported by enough revenue.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:11 AM) I agree, just keep your mouth shut. The media is just doing their job in getting readers to talk about them and they know that K.W. (and Ozzie when he was here) would gladly open their yaps and supply them with fodder that gets them in trouble. You would think that after 12, 13 years of being a G.M. Kenny Williams would know to shut up about attendance and finances. It does nothing but get him in trouble. Look at his quote. He said he doesn't want to talk about it because in the past it has caused a s***storm.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 07:52 AM) I think Greenie Pill Pockets may be laced with crack cocaine. My dog is straight addicted to them, I feed him one and he sits at attention for the next 5 minutes, begging for more. They better be...they cost about the same...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 08:00 AM) My evidence is such quotes don't exist. Teams have always cried poor, but the White Sox are the only team I've ever heard of that actually points to their attendance with the premise they deserve more support, and will be able to improve their team once that support is given. The latest quotes aren't too damning, but KW shouldn't be answering those questions. Why do they even talk about finances publicly? I'm honestly not sure why the fanbase is so sensitive to it. He's merely putting the fan in a better position to impact the team directly. If you are right and no other team does this, than I say our organization is ahead of the curve. They say show us that you are behind us and we will continue to upgrade the team to the fullest extent of our abilities. To the article I criticized earlier, where the writer compared this notion to a restaurant owner telling the public "if you show up, we will serve you better food," that is just a rotten analogy. The White Sox have continually put together high-priced rosters in attempt to compete every year. They put their best foot forward. Last year they essentially went out on a limb and it backfired. This is certainly not the fault of the fans; it's an economic reality. We overspent and this year we were forced to scale things back a bit. Now we are in a position to win and the GM is saying "we want to win this thing, but until we get more revenue, we can't upgrade much." He is laying out the plan for the fans to impact. I think that is great.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 05:22 AM) You don't have any evidence, yet know I can't possibly be right. Everyone talks about their fans not showing up, you just have no examples. My point is charging less than $90 for a bleacher seat would increase White Sox revenues. No Dick, I have seen the statements before, I just didn't save them on my hard drive for immediate production at your whim. I worked 14 hours yesterday, so I sure as hell wasn't going to spend the few hours remaining after I got home seeking to provide "evidence" for you. Fact is, you don't have any evidence either, outside of these flimsy Forbes reports every year. With the certainty in which you discuss White Sox finances, one would think you are the damned Corporate CPA.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 07:16 AM) I totally disagree with this. KW doesnt have a long track record of giving up stellar talent. He usually peddles away mediocre talent, but a lot of it. Gio is an exception, but that guy was traded 4 times before he ever hit the bigs, and for some pretty good players. Bottom line is, you're going to achieve this by default. The rate of attrition for minor league prospects is so great that if they are valued highly by the market, you can almost come out ahead by default sheerly by dumping them all if you're getting back proven veterans.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 11:35 PM) If true, I'd trade him now then. I don't think it'd be a White Flag trade despite his great season. There would be justification that Sox don't believe he can keep it up. It would not go over well unless we got back several parts that could fill our current holes...so we are putting ourselves in a better spot to compete going forward. If you dealt him for future pieces...not good.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 10:26 PM) Scary stuff, because apart from what he said, he speaks normally. If you had the game on as background noise you probably wouldn't notice it. The articles mention that he was trying to say one thing and the wrong words came out- kind of like his wires were crossed, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere whether or not he realized what he was saying or if he heard what he meant to say instead. Go ahead run is at fifth is still great stuff. Yeah, it was incredible...he clearly didn't realize what he was saying...it's as if he thought he was saying was perfectly appropriate for the situation...no inflection, no sigh or change in inflection...crazy

Comparing a mlb franchise to a restaurant is such a great analogy...

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 10:00 PM) And the decreased attendance was directly a response to last year's team probably being the least likable Sox team I've ever witnessed (albeit, a small sample size for me). Obviously, there are a lot of factors that contribute to continued low attendance this year, but a theory I've had for awhile is that the actual fan base is just not as big as people assume that it is. You always hear about how Sox fans need to go to more games so we can make a deal at the deadline etc. But, I think that it's more the fact that in recent history the Sox have not done a very good job of establishing excitement, which would draw people who aren't exactly Sox fans to the games. Also, does anybody know exactly how much the Sox make off of ticket sales and concessions? I think I remember reading that at least a portion of one or the other went to the state because of the stadium deal. I don't debate the fans right to not show up...all I am arguing is it has a direct correlation to our ability to spend, which Dick constantly argues against, despite his apparent expertise in accounting. And our GM has every right to express that direct correlation, especially when asked about the notion of taking on more payroll.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 09:26 PM) I doubt it. Maybe if the Sox pay 4/5s of the contract, but nobody is going to take Rios because they know he could turn to s*** at any moment, judging from his track record. The memories of baseball GMs are very short, my friend.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 05:21 PM) OK, show me another team who cries about not being able to acquire players because attendance isn't up to snuff. Just one. You mention the Rangers spending money. You may be interested to know according to Forbes, the White Sox had more revenue than the Rangers last season. Attendance is overblown. Its not how many are at the games, its how much was paid to be there. If the Sox really wanted to sell the last 7000 to 10000 seats to last nights game, they would have had no problem doing so. They picked pricing them to where they would not be sold. The fact is its on the White Sox to draw fans. No one has an obligation to go to games. A restaurant doesn't say we will get you better food if you buy this crap first. They shouldn't even be publicly discussing it. They should be spending time trying to figure out how to fix it. Saying you would get better but can't because you're not getting enough business in a way is just showing you agree that your product should be better. Seriously, the franchise could probably be sold for close to $1 billion right now. If they don't feel they have the funds to properly run it, maybe they should sell. The other thing is, we have heard this so many times in the past, then Peavy gets traded for. Rios gets claimed. Manny get claimed. Edwin Jackson is acquired. Enough answering attendance questions KW. The Sox revenue was top 10 last year. That's the number that matters, not the total attendance figure. I just maintain if they lowered some prices, they would get more people into the stands and those extras would more than make up for the loss on the higher priced tickets. At some point I will go find you this evidence, Dick...tonight I do not have the time nor the energy. That being said, yes, we have a high revenue because we are in a major market. We also correspondingly spend a high dollar figure on payroll. This is obvious and has been pointed out numerous times. The fact remains that will more attendance dollars, more money can be put into payroll. The Rangers, who we both mentioned, have increased their payroll from $65 million in 2010 to $92 million in 2011, and $121 million in 2012. Meanwhile, ours decreased from $128 million in 2011 to $98 million in 2012. These figures are at least partially tied to attendance. You don't decrease your payroll 30 million from one year to the next for s***s and giggles. That is directly a response to attendance and decreasing revenues.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 04:45 PM) We should be coming off multiple post-season and WS appearances by having what most regard as the worst farm system then Yeah, and that's really accurate, considering how many of our young arms are pitching in the MLB right now.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) Good thing the GM put a solid farm system in place to combat the financial handicap this franchise is operating under. Yeah, well, if we had such a solid farm system we probably would be finishing in last every year. Those are usually the teams with the great farm systems.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) Who can the Sox not trade for because of financial constraints? Like 75% of the League.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 02:57 PM) He's choke city these days. Up 5 runs he'll 1-2-3 the competition, up 1? Walk, double, run. He has crumbled under pressure since the beginning of 2011. I agree, he can't seem to get huge outs for us anymore...but he's still a valuable bridge, IMO.

I think it would take about a week for almost all of us to regret trading Matt.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) It is betting odds, which means who people bet on is what determines the odds. Lots of Yankees fans in that group. Well it depends on what odds...basically the odds makers have to open the line somewhere...and who they choose to populate the field is a big consideration. The goal is to attract as much interest as possible...having Peavy as part of that discussion is probably a lot smarter than having Harrison in there, who hardly anyone knows.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 01:49 PM) Sabathia??? LOL at Fernando f***ing Rodney. (I realize he is deserving, it's just funny.) And Harrison? Jesus...Peavy is much more deserving than Harrison.