iamshack

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 09:32 PM) That's a terrible at bat PK. Pathetic. Don't take a half swing at a low first pitch breaking ball. What the hell is wrong with you? He's been doing this all too much lately...I don't know where his f***ing head is...he's trying to volley everything like he's Ivan Lendl or some s***. I'll take the 40 points less of batting average if he'll go back to hitting home runs.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) Maybe we will have a repeat of this game? The incredible thing is they scored the 30 runs in only 4 innings.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) Thats what I heard. Take it for what its worth.Wouldnt surprise me if it was a longer stay. Well, wouldn't bother me a bit...maybe they are just covering their bases just in case.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) Sounds like Humber is going to be on the DL for a while. So were 2 starters down. We need one ASAP. I don't know why they would have made it retroactive if they thought his stay would be prolonged...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:31 PM) I don't wish injury on anyone and hope Humber recovers, but unless this issue is what is responsible for his performance as of late, this is addition by subtraction. I'm thinking this "injury" is a result of his poor performance rather than vice versa

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 12:50 PM) Great. I'd be happy to watch one of the other games Fox is broadcasting, as opposed to not watching baseball at all. I'm already paying $200 for the package, I will keep doing that, just put all 3 Fox feeds on the DirecTV MLB channels and let me pick. Otherwise, I usually don't watch. I think if you buy the Extra Innings package, which is a premium-priced package that already heavily benefits MLB (they do get the lion's share of the revenues) that I should not have to deal with blackout rules. I am paying $200 for every game, so why not show me every game?

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 12:48 PM) The way I see it, both sides have some fault for low attendance. The Sox have not priced tickets, parking, and concessions in a way that works based on the economy and the team's recent performance. For their part, the fans have been slow to respond to the success that the team has had. There are affordable options for going to games if you really want to go. Part of the issue is the White Sox are sort of in no man's land in terms of supply and demand. There is not enough demand to really limit supply, except in Postseason games. This creates the ability to be extremely flexible on which games a fan chooses to go to, rather than having to choose from a limited supply. I think this has an effect of actually discouraging attendance in that a fan always feels like he can go if he ever really wants to go, rather than a situation where a fan has to take the opportunity to go when that arises, because it may not arise again for a long period of time. The key is to make your product a hot ticket, and that breeds even more demand. It's what happens with the Bulls, Cubs and Bears, and teams that have these insane sellout streaks...Red Sox, Phillies, etc.

Yeah, it blows...even the sports books out here can't get around the blackout rules, which really shocked me when I first moved to Vegas. If I bet on the A's or Giants or Angels or Dodgers, many times the book can't even show the game. When the Sox are playing the A's or Angels I often have to hope that it is being shown on Comcast Bay Area, or the SoCal FSN channel...I have no idea how the rules work, just that when I want to watch those teams, sometimes I can watch them but many times I cannot.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 10:51 AM) What has he said then? How many times do we have to go through this? He's said that his ability to make acquisitions is directly tied to what happens with our attendance.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 11:32 AM) It boils down to KW blaming the fans for making his job more difficult instead of owning up to his mistakes. He's not said anything close to that.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 10:01 AM) I don't disagree with anything here. However, what might rub some fans the wrong way is KW just stating that he can't afford to spend money on players because of low attendance. That is only part of the issue, and my thinking is that it's a smaller part than we may think. As you mentioned, their revenue sources are vast and complex. Attendance is just one piece of that puzzle. The flip side to all of this is, would an acquisition of a big name make an immediate impact on attendance? Who would make a bigger impact on attendance: David Wright or Ichiro? Ichiro, right? But he doesn't help the team that much. Long story short, it must suck to be a GM. The problem lies in the fact that he can't discuss those other revenue sources... I am not in the war room, or the meetings with the investors, but I get the feeling that these things are case-by-case situations. Kenny says "I think I can get this player. It's going to cost us X amount." Jerry then goes to the investors or even into his own personal funding sources and they determine whether it is worth it to make it happen or not. That isn't a scenario you can discuss with the fans, or the media, or that he may even know about at this time. So what he's looking at is what he knows affects their ability to make acquisitions, and at this point in the year, that is gate revenue.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) No, I agree that there was no indication that $25 million was available, but if they even pursue a guy (whether or not an actual offer was made), that's a clear indication that there is SOME money available. And not to necessarily validate the xBox comparison, but if there was a guy available (say David Wright), and the team looking to trade him is looking for salary refielf and a prospect, the Sox would find a way to do it. Just as a parent might find a way to purchase something for their kid for a birthday or whatever. I know it's a very weak comparison, but it's like me having to "find" $300 to spend and the Sox having to "find" several million dollars. If you want/need something bad enough, you'll find the cash. And also that the parent would not be being disingenuous to their kid if they said they didn't have the money, when it is actually possible that they could scrape it up. That's the key here. We, as fans, don't have a particularly great picture of the team's finances, and so we're not in a particularly great position to understand what moves can be made or which moves cannot. The Organization has no obligation to explain in incredible detail what their revenue sources or funding sources are. And so when asked about whether any upgrades are going to be made to the roster, what is Kenny to do? He is being completely honest when he says that their ability to improve the roster will be directly related to the revenue at the gate. The fact that it is indeed possible for them to scrape together some funds elsewhere is in no way inconsistent with his statement. To look at it otherwise is to take an incredibly naive and unsophisticated view of an incredibly complex situation.

Goodnight, Fellas! It has been fun!

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:36 PM) I did consider all the information and read this entire thread since it was created. I always do. You just think I dont. Just because you said you do doesn't make it so. Your posts in this thread certainly would lead one to think otherwise. Actually, I take that back. Your posts in this thread actually haven't pointed out anything of substance. You've just been piggybacking DA.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:33 PM) Yeah nice little swipe there. Reeks of desperation. Well your nose isn't very good either then. But you still haven't addressed my point.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:27 PM) Im taken pretty seriously actually. More than you think. I'm sorry Baron, I didn't mean to not take you seriously. But I didn't actually mean you, as in yourself. I meant "you" as in a person in general. Sorry for not making that more clear.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:24 PM) When did I say they had to spend every dime? Give me evidence. I've only stated they claim they spend every dime. When I pointed out for years that really wasn't accurate, you argued with me about that. You say $10 million isn't a lot of money, that would indicate they should be able to acquire a pretty good player since they only have to pay him for half a year. Perhaps a $20 million a year guy. Since you are so tuned into White Sox finances, how much are they looking to recoup from last season? There is a second part to that statement. You are saying that if the White Sox claim they do not have much money with which to use to acquire a player making a significant salary, they are necessarily lying if they are not spending every penny. I'm pointing out that their statement is not necessarily false just because it is possible in some scenario that they could afford the player. Dick, let me ask you this...when all is said and done, how much money do you think the entire operating expenses of the White Sox is for any given year?

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:24 PM) So unless it comes out of Kenny's mouth we should just blow it off? Even then we may blow it off. That's not what I am saying at all. But wouldn't you agree that if you are really going to voice your strong opinions on a topic you at least have an obligation to consider all available known information if you wish to be taken seriously?

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:18 PM) He hasnt been saying that at all. Stop trying to put words in his mouth to make your argument. Actually, he has been saying this for years, Baron. Ask the people who joined Soxtalk before 2011.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:17 PM) http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/jorge-soler/ Pretty easy find I know you may have trouble with this. But normally when people try to distinguish fact from a rumor they usually say so. Ahh, this is why I asked for you to make it more clear to me! He does claim that we actually bid $25 million. My bad. But you do understand that this does not make it a fact that we did so, right? Just because Peter Gammons said so doesn't make it fact? Still a rumor. ru·mor: a statement or report current without known authority for its truth

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:13 PM) Actually I always loved the Peavy trade. Maybe you can find evidence I criticized the acquistion. Rios was a stupid acquistion. Dunn was an overpay because of the Thome/Kotsay fiasco. I would not have these obligations on the books if I ran the franchise. I don't know how that could be considered reckless. But keep going. You seem to espouse the theory that one must spend every dollar one has access to, or saying they have no money to spend is an inaccurate statement. You seem to espouse the theory that JR should exhaust every financial resource he has or else he is not putting all the money back into the team. Such behavior would indeed be very reckless.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:10 PM) I am absolutely not claiming that. What I am claiming is that I trust his sources(This is coming from someone involved in the game of baseball almost his entire life) which said we bid on Soler and that bid was 25-30 million. Over your analyzation of documents and not having a full understanding of the details. Its pretty simple. I dont care if you have a friend connected with the White Sox. Give yourself a pat on the back. But you did claim that, Baron. You posted that it was not a rumor because he said it was true. Even if I did trust Peter Gammons as much as you, I certainly didn't read his statement to say we bid $25-30 million. But perhaps you can make it more clear to me.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:07 PM) What was their bottom line last year? Forbes claims they made $10 million. What did you come up with? I think I stated about 100 posts ago that I think it is reasonable that the investors make some money. That is the purpose of investing. The amount of money that goes in and out of a professional baseball organization every year is in the hundreds of millions if not billions. To claim that $10 million is some kind of significant figure is just not true. That is a tiny sliver in the grand scheme of things.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:05 PM) Again, I have never demanded they spend every penny. They have claimed numerous times they spend every dime that comes in. JR finally came clean when he was questioned about where they got the money for Dunn, Konerko and AJ when he said they save a little here, save a little there. I would imagine Forbes numbers are a lot more accurate than the claims White Sox employees make concerning finances, and Forbes calls them, despite Sox fans apparently not supporting the team, one of the most profitable franchises in baseball. I've only called them cheap in 2009 when they had all my non refundable playoff money, raised ticket prices, and then lowered payroll and cried poor. They eventually brought in Peavy and Rios. Other than that, I've never really had a problem with their payroll. In fact, I actually argued against the $4 million for 1 month waste of money for Manny Ramirez. I only have a problem with them crying poor if they are not, and claiming to spend every dime that comes in, when they don't. I don't know know why they feel its so important to tell everyone these things. I think they do so just to piss you off, DA. To run the franchise as you would suggest would be reckless, irresponsible, and lead to the White Sox being buried with unmovable contracts every year. You criticize the acquisitions of Peavy/Rios/Dunn enough. To follow the standards you seem to want to hold them to would lead to even more of those type of contracts.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:00 PM) It wasnt a rumor. He said we bid. Plain and simple. Its right there in black and white. Peter Gammons is 100 times more reputable than you are and actually has sources throughout teams in baseball. Yes we know you have no sources throughout the White Sox. That much was very clear from the start. Baron, are you claiming that if someone says something, it cannot be a rumor, because that person said it was true? Secondly, the argument is not whether Peter Gammons has better sources or I do. The argument, if there actually is one, is which is a better source, actual publicly-released documents regarding player salaries, attendance, etc., or Peter Gammons hearing from his sources that we made a bid on Jorge Soler. Notwithstanding that even if it was established that we did bid on him, that doesn't establish the value of that bid. Oh, and I actually do know a guy that has pretty good sources within the White Sox...but no, I have no direct sources, nor did I claim I did.