iamshack

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:17 PM) If KW wants to unload those guys, he will have no problem doing so. He's asking for the moon right now. Which is what he should be doing on December 7th. I'm not sure what the f*** you want, Dick...do you want him to get good prospects for these pieces or do you want him to just give them away? For everyone crying about Santos not being shopped more, why the hell are you also crying that there has not been more trades made? Make up your damned minds.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) It's insane that KW is being allowed to clean up the mess he created. All I can say is that one would hope Hahn has been a driver of some of these decisions as well. So we should promote Hahn? Some of you guys are just complaining to complain. The players have not lived up to their end of the bargain by a long shot, remember that too.

I think the vitriol is a bit harsh in here, but I guess the day Mark leaves would be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't see this rebuild being as daunting as many of you think...have you seen the production we've been getting out of some of the pieces we're talking about moving? It's not as though that kind of production is impossible to replace. I've felt like the last 2-3 years the White Sox have been heavy on name players and light on production.

This is starting to sound like the Indians' fans with Jim Thome.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) with those guys... safer to assume it was not, in fact, a joke. I still believe we will contend next year, whether it is on purpose or not, I don't know.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) Well hell, for 4/58, I don't care of KW was able to make his trades first or not. I love Mark, but he isn't worth that risk. Florida is out of their minds doing this, and the rest of the disaster they are staging. That said, I will stand and cheer for Mark on his return to The Cell. Classy guy, and one of my faves of all time on the Sox. I hope he does great, except against us. And I can't blame him for taking the deal, even with the circus. Sounds like most teams were offering 3 years, in the $36M-$39M territory. Kind of hard to turn down $20M guaranteed. Like fathom said, if he went for 3/36 or something, then I'd be more pissed at KW. As it is, better we didn't sign him. I don't think it'll be a disaster...the most efficient use of their money, probably not, but let's face it, Mark has dominated the NL throughout his career. I think he'll probably earn most of that money. The issue is they need to make a splash for opening day and they are having trouble luring the guys necessary to do so. Mark was a beneficiary of this. But honestly, of all the risky contracts they could have given out, I doubt this one comes back to burn them too badly.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) I'm not so sure. I think I read somewhere that Tango's original research of peak between 28-32 is outdated and that guys are starting to peak much earlier. That might have been referring to pitchers, and I wouldn't be able to find it though. Anyway ,I still think recency trumps it in this case. What does ZiPs says? That would be an objective way to settle the argument, I think. It might also be from guys from some of the latin hotbeds of talent lying about their ages

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 05:00 PM) I still think we should all breathe a sigh of relief he didn't go to the Cubs. That would have made things a million times worse. He would never have gone there. Watch the Hawkeroo go to Miami to do their play by play now

Wow

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) I don't get the non-love for LA. It's like Chicago, except on the West Coast with better weather. For fun stuff, there's not one central place you have to drive to. For example, in Chicago, generally it's downtown and some spots on the north side. In LA, literally, you can drive anywhere and find something awesome to do. You got beaches in the beach cities right there, their downtown is not on par with Chicago yet, but it's getting there(it's changed a ton in the past 10 years), and you can literally take a 3 hour drive to San Diego, Vegas, or drive up to the mountains whenever you're bored. Plus Derrick Rose lives out there in the offseason. LA would be #1 on my list. I agree...it's not perfect by any means...but NY or LA? No f***ing contest.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 01:46 PM) LOL, there is no way thats true. The problem with DirecTV is they subcontract out their installation services. Now I have no problem with hispanic people whatsoever. The problem is, my dumbass does not speak spanish, and the technicians they have sent me speak limited english. So when the guy is trying to tell me this, it's not like he understands much english about wireless networks, routers, modems, etc. I tried to explain this to his dispatcher, but she was just some twenty year old girl named Ashley that doesn't know either. So of course, I had to call customer service, explain the issue to them, and now schedule ANOTHER technician to come out. And of course, what kind of computer you have has absolutely nothing to do with whether you can run Whole Home DVR service or not. This will now be the 4th technician that will try to install this for me.

Does anyone with an Apple computer also have DirecTV's Whole Home DVR service? The technician is telling me it you cannot have Whole Home DVR service with an Apple computer running on your wireless network, which sounds ridiculous.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) If I was the Marlins GM, I would use Pujols money for Fielder and Buehrle than trade Hanley for King Felix. While that may have been possible at one time, it sure isn't now.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:31 AM) Just because it's a PTBNL doesn't mean it's "nothing". Could still be a legit prospect or someone from the 2011 draft. The Padres are paying almost all of his $8 million salary this year. It's nothing.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) FWIW, Rockies just traded Huston Street for literally nothing. PTBNL and salary relief. Street was also set to make $8 million this year, and has a player option for $9 million next year. I understand and appreciate you were just posting what the market was for another closer, but the two situations were on opposite ends of the spectrum.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) I'm serious. Besides the good weather, all I've heard for a long time is the negative stuff people have already said. LA gets ragged on because of the pollution and the traffic. But there's a reason for all the traffic and the pollution - because so many people want to live there! The weather, the entertainment, the beaches, the food, the people...there are tons of reasons to live in LA. Not saying I would want to do it without lots of money, but let's not act like it's not a world-class city, folks.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:48 AM) Would you rather he got two more Zach Stewarts back? Seriously, based on what AA said in his post-trade interviews, Molina was considered untouchable by at least half the front office, and they were passionately arguing against making this trade. Personally, I'm glad KW is finally targeting some high-ceiling guys instead of a bunch of upper minors role players. Yeah, it's a gamble, but all prospects are. It's the only way. Look at the part of my post you quoted...I said "they had better be damn sure" about this guy...if that is the case, I am fine with it...but it's hard to understand that when 3/4 of the minor league commentators seem to be saying this guy is just an average prospect. Hey, I'll take their word for it for now since I know nothing about the guy...but all I am saying is they better be right. As for Stewart, I don't get how so many people are so down on the kid. I like his addition to the club, and I think he can be a #3-4 starter or a potential dominant relief arm. And yes, we DO need more guys like him in our system, honestly.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:35 AM) I can't remember the last good thing I heard about LA. Umm...I expect more from you.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:24 AM) seriously? there's no such THING as proven among closers and relievers in general. If you play fantasy baseball you know that - every year the list of "top closers" is dramatically different. Why? Because they have no lasting power. They'll be good for a couple years then fall off the map. Who's to say Santos isn't exactly the same as the majority of closers out there? Yes, seriously. Yes, relievers are volatile. But simply because many relievers fail, doesn't mean all relievers will fail. There was obviously belief in the guy, as they kicked in extra money up front to control his arbitration years. There was obviously belief in the guy, since there was a desire from other teams. Perhaps "proven" is the wrong word, since any young player can fail at any time. But did you not watch games last year? Did he not have success last year? Was he not very dominant at times? SS provided quality major league results in a difficult role with nasty stuff at an extremely young age. THAT HAS VALUE. Whether you want to play this horses*** "all relievers are worthless" game to make yourself feel better, every year we see teams trade away quality prospects to rent a reliever for their playoff run. Every year we see teams handing out 3 and 4 year eight-figure deals for relievers. Basically, what you're saying is it's perfectly fine to trade a young player who has succeeded at the Major League level, and who has nasty stuff - this was not just smoke and mirrors - for some guy that has a chance to be a quality Major Leaguer? They had better be damn sure this guy is going to be a quality starter here for several years or this trade is just not logical. You are not "restocking your system" when you trade 1 for 1 off your Major League team for a AA player, btw.

Can't believe how long it took peeps to list San Diego (thank you Steve, Russ)...also, uh, LA anyone? There are like 5 California cities that should be in the top 10. Seattle, Portland, Denver, Austin, Chicago, NY and CALIFORNIA.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 08:50 PM) One which was already brought up there is a higher draft pick, which in turn could help you win. However you missed the boat on what the Bears job is. The Bears job, as a business/organization, is to make money. Yes, winning helps make money, that's a huge part of it. But increasing your chances (if you can even prove that) by 1% by getting Favre could piss off fans, which could possibly cost you money in the long run. BTW, Favre is no longer entertaining on the field, unless you find bad quarterbacking entertaining. I don't see what fun you'd get watching them lose with Favre over without Favre. Who the f*** cares? That really adds to your enjoyment? You could also put a girl at QB next week and call it more entertaining than last week's game. Doesn't mean it's a move that should be made because it's somehow "more entertaining." Are you kidding with this bulls***? GMAFB. This is you completely talking out of your ass.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:03 AM) Which really is the most important factor here. If you're willing to trade Santos 1-for-1, which even if it doesn't signal a complete rebuilding implies we're restocking our system, Molina HAS to turn into a quality major leaguer. There isn't even room here for maybes. This is the purpose of having a deep minor league system, to account for the common prospect who never lives up to his potential. But when you're like the White Sox and have a limited international presence and an equally limited farm system these trades have no choice but to work out if we're looking to compete in 3-4 years. Maybe sooner. Hell, for this trade to be a success, he has to turn into a high quality Major League starter, in my opinion. You don't trade a guy who has proven he can succeed at the Major League level in one of the more difficult roles, especially when you have him cost-controlled at a reasonable rate, and that you possess NOW, for some guy who has a chance to be a quality Major Leaguer, in the future. As far as I am concerned, they had better hit a home run on this deal or it's a horrendous trade.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) The more I think about this trade, the more I feel like KW might have been too focused on Molina and could have gotten a lot more from one of these other teams looking to acquire a closer without having to spend a lot of money (ie: Reds). I would hope that they at least contacted the teams openly looking for a closer before doing this...one would think that would be something someone minimally competent would do, unless of course, they love Molina so much that they knew they simply could not better this deal. I understand everyone has a right to complain, but this is just one of those deals where we won't know for a year or two...so let's move on to the next order of business already...

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Wow, I agree with every word of this. Yeah, Kenny would rather just target guys on his list and acquire them with the pieces he has. I don't really have an issue with either approach, honestly.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) That he was a generally unknown AA converted pitching prospect says something, though. He wasn't generally unknown to those who make it their business to know these things. I would love to know how many AA pitching prospects you or BMags could name off the top of your heads at 11 am this morning.